Web-application evolution?

[cmontoya]

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I'm seeing a lot of new IT jargons like web-native applications, web services, SOAP, REST, Web 2, "consume", and for someone who's not into them in-depth, they could be overwhelming.

Who among you are actually working on web applications using these and possibly unmentioned technologies? Can you share your experiences, i.e., learning curve, sample applications, without
mentioning your real name, companies (assuming the details are confidential), why you chose the particular technologies that you use, and others?

[cold_fusion]

I haven't used them.

As far I understand, they are webservices that requests to the server thru get or post using standard http protocols. Thus can be tunneled to service 80. But the response is XML so it needs a special client to interpret and process the response.

It is similar to AJAX. But on ajax, the server response is direct html code and be placed directly in innerhtml tag element.

So far I don't need to use these services. Ajax is enough for my use and I don't need a customised client. Any browser will do.

Maybe in the future, these technologies will become popular.

[simoncpu]

Hi,

You might want to check these sites out:

- http://dack.com/web/bullsh*t.html
- http://emptybottle.org/bullsh*t/

They generate Web 2.0 words for us to enjoy!

Cheers,

[ simon.cpu ] <-- looks forward to the day when he can really use SOAP, REST, and Ajax for a real project.


* replace asterisks with 'i'.

[markjeee]

Hello Carlo, we do! http://www.simpleteq.com.

Most of the learning curve depends on what you are used to. Here are a few things i think that will be part of the learning curve:

* Creating applications that handle multiple users at the same time
* Maintaining disconnected session
* Scaling application -- in terms of data, number of accesses
* Working with a horde of incompatibilities between browsers
* Developing a better user experience on a very limited, originally designed to be static medium

I'm sure there are others -- but those are i think very common.

Update: We choose Ruby because of it's dynamic feature. You can start small and re-factor along the way -- without losing momentum. We're also going away from Rails, and going into Merb and other alternatives due to scalability issues.

[cmontoya]

Hi Mark (ikaw dyud ni imo avatar no?)

The last time I developed an intranet web application, I used xHTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP, MySQL, Smarty, and JpGraph. After getting more staff, I
focused more on my true job as a manager and forgot how to develop a web app (well, not really forgot but really rusty). After 3 years, I suddenly
hear about new terms and said to myself, paspasa dyud mu-evolve technologies oi especially for those who aren't really into it year in year out. I feel
that specialization is in again, and generalization out. I'm a good manager but that wasn't enough to get me the job at Morph because they were
implicitly looking for someone who has actual web development and RoR experience. I thought that if I could learn, I could increase my chances next
time in a similar job. But with my day job, how can I possibly be on the same level to people whose day job are actually developing web applications
using the latest technology? Bottomline is I should wake up and stop daydreaming. Stick to Excel VBA na lang ko. But that doesn't mean I won't learn
XML and web-services because I can still use the former and access the latter using VBA, right?

Sige Mark, maayo na lang ni-join naka Istorya para naa daghan namo diri true blue coder na magkasinabot.

[markjeee]

Hello Carlo, i think the trend now with software companies (companies that develop softwares/products) is moving in to a more flat organization. Joel Spolsky (he was the Excel program manager back in the 90's) mentioned this on the About Us page of his FogCreek company. Unlike other companies, a development house is focused on innovation and value -- and most of the time, there are only 2 levels -- the senior managers/owners and then the developers. In fact, often the developers are also the owners.

So a good direction to take now is to either move up to either extremes or a combination. Either be an entrepreneur/manager of a start-up company or be a programmer. As Seth Godin always said, people in a business should either be selling (sales) or making something to sell (programmer).

I still remember when we tried to create a business plan, back when i was still in college. I still think that what we made (SMS program) is the reason we got involved with MG. Back then, it was expensive to be in business -- with the internet connection taking a big part of the bill. But now, it's really different. Starting something no longer needs a lot of money, in fact, a programmer can start it on his part-time.

I still do a lot of time coding, as it's important for my well-being. But i also do almost equal amount of time in business. So i try to also learn and improve my business skills -- since this time, i'm on my own together with fellow programmers (before there was MS who always handled business).

Do you still write articles? Perhaps a blog somewhere?

By the way, Excel VBA is still in high demand now, check out the insurance agents and mutual fund managers -- they still use Excel a lot.

[franee]

http://tomayko.com/articles/2004/12/12/rest-to-my-wife - a good read about REST.

i've learned REST through a project in rails and its actually a pretty neat idea, a convention is set and makes your code readable/traceable

[silent-kill]

i've d*ck around with REST recently... and hope to use SOAP someday..

[cmontoya]

Hi Mark,

I'm a good manager and a mediocre programmer I'm unsure whether I'll make a good entrepreneur or not. I haven't tried to be one yet. I'm still trying to
figure out what I do best. For one, I believe I'm good at teaching. I'm thinking of putting up a blog where I can teach Excel VBA programming; however, I'm
not sure how to make money off that if I do start one.

I'm happy for you. It takes guts to be an entrepreneur but you have the skills so I'm not surprised. In fact, I predicted that you'll be weaning yourself from
MS and I was right.

I'm writing for our newsletter but I'm not really interested in writing articles beyond that.

Since I already started teaching Excel VBA programming here at NEC, maybe I should just take advantage and go Excel VBA all the way, i.e., learn to connect
to relational databases, integrate Excel with the other products in the MS Office Suite, and maybe dabble a bit with consuming Web-services (won't create it).
Then if I'm confident enough I can handle small or medium size Excel apps, then maybe I could think of making money off it.

Hey, why don't we get together one of these days?

[cold_fusion]

OT here bai:

If you are good in VBA with Excel, why not shift to MsAccess. It is fairly similar to Excel Vba and you are not limited to 65536 records.
Unlike excel, users does not need or purchase a complete office suite but can run use its runtime environment, provided you, the developer, have runtime distribution license.