Galactic Alignment of 2012

[binarypill]

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so what are you suggesting? we abandon all our knowledge and stick to human intuition?

well, that would throw away the entire point of this exercise, wouldn't it. and why is it that people always go for the most extreme reaction to any given idea? why not consider what i am actually implying: mathematics is useful in determining possibilities but what will actually happen is not confined in those numbers you've produced.

If this were true, Airbus pilots from airlines around the world are wasting millions of dollars on Level D flight simulators so they can fly the real thing. Contrary to your belief, when you plug the numbers in, the numbers do work.

how about extending your idea further: if you could actually rely on mathematical models to predict accurately what will happen during an air transit, what use would pilots be?

also, those simulators are copies of real world situations. math modeled AFTER real world events.

there is truth in your belief but there is a flaw in your absolute generalization of it. the numbers do work, but only if a number of preconditions are met. if preconditions are uncertain and/or if there are unfactored preconditions in your formula, your mathematical model breaks.

[rodsky]

how about extending your idea further: if you could actually rely on mathematical models to predict accurately what will happen during an air transit, what use would pilots be?

Unmanned spacecraft have been flying for years. The airline industry could have evolved into something similar, but it's not a matter of not having the technology, because I believe we can have unmanned airliners--it's people's mistrust of the capabilities of machines that's the issue--people trust people rather than machines. So again, it's a question of attitude, and NOT capability. Furthermore, there's the additional complexity of accountability etc etc

-RODION

[fritzd]

well, that would throw away the entire point of this exercise, wouldn't it. and why is it that people always go for the most extreme reaction to any given idea? why not consider what i am actually implying: mathematics is useful in determining possibilities but what will actually happen is not confined in those numbers you've produced.



how about extending your idea further: if you could actually rely on mathematical models to predict accurately what will happen during an air transit, what use would pilots be?

also, those simulators are copies of real world situations. math modeled AFTER real world events.

there is truth in your belief but there is a flaw in your absolute generalization of it. the numbers do work, but only if a number of preconditions are met. if preconditions are uncertain and/or if there are unfactored preconditions in your formula, your mathematical model breaks.

In some sense you may be right. But simulations you are talking about are not necessarily copies of the real, most of the times we simulate how things we haven't observed in the real world using theories and concepts which everything else works with. So what I mean is that, especially in the topic, we have to consider all possibilities especially what science has to say. Science has never failed us for a very long time now. hehehe

[binarypill]

Unmanned spacecraft have been flying for years.

yep, they have. and they have remote controls so that men on the ground can course correct them for, you know, when the mathematical model isn't so accurate.

using theories and concepts which everything else works with

these generalizations really need to be addressed. here, you should read this: validity limits of classical mechanics

and please don't take that to mean that they have found another set of "theories and concepts which everything else works with". please take it as a clue as to how much our science has really gone which is "far but not that far yet".

So what I mean is that, especially in the topic, we have to consider all possibilities especially what science has to say

i completely agree on this part and i appreciate not saying that science (current human science, at least) has the complete say on the matter.

Science has never failed us for a very long time now

i think you need to do some researching to validate this. AFAICT, science has some major fail moments at times. the cool thing about science is that even failures teach something.

[fritzd]

i think you need to do some researching to validate this. AFAICT, science has some major fail moments at times. the cool thing about science is that even failures teach something.

We can argue about this forever because I'm a scientist myself. Sir rodsky probably has also pointed this out already in many many threads. Anyway, my statement is not exact. It's a generalization. Science did not exactly succeed in everything that it tried to accomplish but overall it has brought us up to this point in time. We really on it greatly. If it, by some chance, has failed us, then we (government of great nations and all) would stop putting trust in science. The bottom line is that, the great nations of this world rely on science, invests in science, and trusts in science. If it failed, then we should have abandoned it, but that's not the case.

I stick strongly to things the I have learned in my experience but I still try to keep an open mind.

[binarypill]

this:

I'm a scientist myself.

plus this:

I still try to keep an open mind

equals "whooh, thank goodness!" from me. this, however has me worried:

my statement is not exact. It's a generalization.

i am not as informed as you and sir rodsky, i'm sure. but i have to say this, as scientists, you and sir rodsky(if he's a scientist), make a lot of generalizations. i would think someone who searches for knowledge would be wary of generalizations.

[vern]

It happens every year. OMG! Case closed. No lengthy run-away discussions. No "I am clever because I bombard you with my wall of text" posts.

[binarypill]

well, do a tl;dr

[ix-888]

chillax sa mo guyz

So unsa pa man other possibilities na mahitabo if ever naa galactic alignment aside from the ones mentioned earlier . . . anything that sounds theoretically logical inyo mahuna2xan lng

[Black kangaroo]

Nothing will happen