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  1. #1

    Default Islam. A Religion of Peace or Violence?


    First of all I just want to say that I am not a Muslim but we still can’t deny the fact that Islam is one true faith. There's also no denying about the fact that Islam is a catalyst in many wars but the same is also said of Christianity and other religions as well. We all know the crisis of terrorism and secession but is that all there is to it? Is geopolitics and pure politics the main reason? Is oil, a good wager for war of the radical Islam? Are all of these a one-way method of promoting and achieving peace or, is this what Islam is all about?

    Members who are Muslims and anti-Islam just leave a healthy discussion. I also want to remind everyone that this is not a hate thread.

    Let me start off by citing an excerpt from a forum I usually frequent other than istorya. The name's hackforums. I cant put a link of the thread from there because you have to register in order to see it and it's bothersome for you here who are busy so i'll just post it and tell us what you think. I prefer no ad homs.

    Here it goes:

    ISIL

    Spoiler! 
    ISIL stands for the Islamic States of Iraq and the Levant. It is a militant group of Sunni Jihadist rebels located primarily in Syria and Iraq, but they also claim territory as far as Northern Africa and Southern Asia. Much of the hatred towards them stems from their extremist practices such as beheading, suicide bombing, and ethnic cleansing. The Kurds claim they have about 200,000 militant followers, while the CIA estimates that number to be significantly lower at around 60,000 (CIA, 2014).


    Some of the confusion regarding the group stems from the many names they are referred to by both the media and world leaders. Since founded in 1999, ISIL has gone through 7 names, some of which include: ISIS, ISIL, IS, and Da’ish. ISIS was the previous name used by ISIL, which meant the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. The English translation of the name they use to refer to themselves is the Islamic State. Da’ish is what people who speak Arabic call the group for short. It is important to also recognize the group was a sect of Al-Qaeda in Iraq from 2004-2006, although they no longer hold any affiliation (Lind, 2014).


    The group was founded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 1999, when he was in his early 30’s. Al-Zarqawi was born in Jordan in 1966. In his early twenties, he became close friends with Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden helped mentor and finance their common interests, which included suicide bombings, genocide, and hostage executions. Al-Zarqawi died in June 2006 while attending a meeting when a 500-pound bomb was dropped from an American F16 on his safe house, killing him and his wife instantly (CIA, 2013). After his death his successor, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, an Egyptian, took leadership over the group until his death in April 2010 from a raid on his home by a joint American and Iraqi force. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi preceded him and is the current leader of ISIL. It is believed, however, that he was injured during an American bombing run in late 2014 (CIA, 2014).


    As stated previously much the rest of the world’s disapproval regarding ISIL stems from their religious extremist practices. ISIL was involved in the September 11, 2001 attack on the American World Trade Center buildings and Pentagon that killed almost 3,000 people. In 2007, they coordinated a four-man suicide attack on Kurdish towns that left roughly 800 dead and 1,550 injured. In 2003, they exploded 4 car bombs in Istanbul, Turkey, that left 60 dead and over 700 injured (Wadell, 2014). Countless other lone wolf attacks have continuously occurred in the last few years, especially in the Middle East. One example of these lone wolf-attacks is the Canadian Parliament shooting in 2014, in which one man with no connections to ISIL attacked and killed a Parliament officer, in support of the group (Coughlin, 2014).


    The recent beheadings of several reporters have caused outrage among the international community. The attacks are in almost all cases recorded and uploaded anonymously to websites as popular as YouTube, in order to have a propaganda effect on those who watch. There have also been plenty of other little known videos uploaded of ISIL members doing such atrocities as gunning down unarmed civilians huddled in a corner and then desecrating their bodies, or even the mutilating of children of rival ethnic groups and religions.

    ISIL has only recently become a major international concern because they are advancing quickly and conquering a lot of land in Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Jordan. They are also recruiting thousands of individuals from across the planet. Several Americans have been arrested recently for attempting to join ISIL. ISIL has publically claimed that they are declaring war on all non-believers of Islam, publically denouncing countries such as the United States, Russia, and Australia (“Can”, 2014). ISIL has made it clear they want all out war and are willing to fight to the death for their cause. The world has been on high alert amid threats of terrorism by the group in recent months.




    Rebutting Popular Opinions

    Spoiler! 
    The Obama administration seems to believe simply dropping a few bombs on everything they believe involved with ISIL is effective. It has proven useful, but on its own it provides minimal effect, it must be accompanied by ground troops and the government must be strengthened for any lasting effect. One expert said, “Bombs on their own will not stop ISIS, it will only slow their progression” (Stien, 2014). The minimalistic war tactics that have been employed by the US in recent times have also proven to be ineffective since war has occurred sporadically between the two nations for the last 30 years (CIA, 2014).


    Some people also believe simply dropping a “nuke” or two, much like America did at to Japan during WWII, on the area would prove effective. One supporter, Larry Klayman, says “In taking on the Muslim caliphate, now being spearheaded by ISIS, we need to take a lesson from President Harry Truman in ending World War II. Showing real grit and leadership, Truman and his advisers correctly concluded that even if thousands of Japanese civilians had to be sacrificed in dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, this seemingly unthinkable strategy would save countless lives in the end” (Klayman, 2014).


    In theory it would diminish a large portion of ISIL members, but it would also kill a much larger group of civilians. Not only would this cause extreme international backlash, it would also lay waste to a huge area of land heavily dense in natural resources such as oil and gems. More important yet, it would also break the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty that many of the major Nuclear powers signed, sending the world into another Cold War, or possibly even worse, a final war.


    It is also argued by some experts that Iraq should be broken into three parts. Not only would doing this prove extremely challenging to pull off, it would also most likely fail within months of being established. The political instability in the region is ludicrous, leaders are ousted, murdered, and often commit crimes against there own people, as in the case of Assad in Syria, who used chemical weapons on his own people. Assad is also believed to have also illegally funneled $150 billion into his personal accounts (Bolton, 2014). We must establish a fair authoritarian individual in the group capable of leading a country in such turmoil. Splitting Iraq into multiple countries would only allow for the groups to turn against each other in a much more devastating way: as a country with an organized military.


    Many people believe ISIL could be held back or even eliminated with bombing raids alone. Many countries have had this attitude towards the terrorist organizations in this area since the 1990’s, they have adapted to live underground in complex tunnels that span miles and interlink safe houses, military bases and weapon caches. It is inevitable that in order to secure the regions ISIL controls there must be ground troops.





    the poster's sources are:

    Spoiler! 
    The Qur'anic Commandments Regarding War/Jihad
    Ali, Maulana Muhammad; The Religion of Islam
    Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, Toward an Islamic Reformation: Civil Liberties, Human Rights, and International Law, Syracuse University Press, 1996
    Esposito, John L. (2009). What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-515713-3



    mods: just merge, close or move this thread to wherever you deem fit.


    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَأْكُلُوا أَمْوَالَكُم بَيْنَكُم بِالْبَاطِلِ إِلَّا أَن تَكُونَ تِجَارَةً عَن تَرَاضٍ مِّنكُمْ ۚ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِكُمْ رَحِيمًا"
    وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَ*ٰلِكَ عُدْوَانًا وَظُلْمًا فَسَوْفَ نُصْلِيهِ نَارًا ۚ وَكَانَ ذَ*ٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا"
    Last edited by brian joshua; 04-06-2016 at 12:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Food Trail Junkie beyee's Avatar
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    Religion is never the root cause of any conflict.
    It's the values ingrained in people's minds and hearts.

    They're only using religion as a lame excuse for their stupidity.
    "People who love to eat are always the BEST people."
    Julia Child

  3. #3
    from the same poster and same sources

    Leave Islam and Die

    It's called Apostasy. If someone does any of the following they can be put to death.

    Leave Islam
    Deny Islam or God
    Reject Muhammad
    Insult or mock God, any prophet (ie: Muhammad), or Sharia
    Reject Sharia
    Worship any other idol
    Permit behavior that violates Sharia
    Consume forbidden foods or alcohol

    Jihad

    It's mentioned 41 times in the Qur'an. The Qur'an calls repeatedly for jihad, or holy war, against unbelievers, including, at times, Jews and Christians. The Qur'an: (8:12): "...cast terror in their hearts and strike upon their necks."

    "Another aim and objective of jihad is to drive terror in the hearts of the [infidels]. To terrorize them. Did you know that we were commanded in the Qur'an with terrorism? ...Allah said, and prepare for them to the best of your ability with power, and with horses of war. To drive terror in the hearts of my enemies, Allah's enemies, and your enemies. And other enemies which you don't know, only Allah knows them... So we were commanded to drive terror into the hearts of the [infidels], to prepare for them with the best of our abilities with power. Then the Prophet said, nay, the power is your ability to shoot. The power which you are commanded with here, is your ability to shoot. Another aim and objective of jihad is to kill the [infidels], to lessen the population of the [infidels]... it is not right for a Prophet to have captives until he makes the Earth warm with blood... so, you should always seek to lessen the population of the [infidels]." Shaykh Abdullah al-Faisal

    The Battle of Khaybar is widely attributed as the point in time that Islam became far more violent. It was a battle in which the reason given by Muhammad for the attack as "its inhabitants were not Moslems" -- the Jews of Khaybar had done nothing to wrong Muhammad or the Muslim community at that time. That battle was more for plunder than anything else, it became an excuse for conquest.

    Spoiler! 
    Last edited by brian joshua; 02-05-2015 at 07:50 PM.

  4. #4
    C.I.A. bula1980's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marius View Post
    fafi .. nindot ni imong thread .... u know me naman diba, baptized a christian, converted to islam, atheist by heart hehehehe ...
    OT:
    communist until you get rich
    Feminist until you get married
    Atheist until the airplane starts falling


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by marius View Post
    fafi .. nindot ni imong thread .... u know me naman diba, baptized a christian, converted to islam, atheist by heart hehehehe ...

    but i've read the quran and it's very frightening coz there are phrases there that promotes violence but .. if you read it along, there is an explanation ...

    like example, the most misunderstood of them all is JIHAD. coz i think this is what ISIS or ISIL or these facking muklos are doing. In the Quran no one can easily declare a JIHAD, first it must be studied and approved by the head of the tribe. and it must be done out of defense, like if someone from outside is oppressing your people and ridiculing your religion. jihad can't be declared just becoz they want to .....

    pero mao lagi na ang problem sa Quran, if bugo ang magbasa, aw ma result gyud sa terrorista ... but if imo gyud open imong mind while reading, nindot bya ...
    nice ka fafi... but how about the claim of muslims and other pro-Islam that enabling the idea of Islam you gain inner peace? hehe
    Last edited by brian joshua; 02-05-2015 at 08:13 PM.

  6. #6
    Is ISIL representing Islam?

    Spoiler! 


    Spoiler! 


    how about these group of insurgents?

    Al-Qaeda
    Taliban
    Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
    East Turkestan Islamic Movement
    Al-Shabaab
    Jundallah
    Lashkar-e-Taiba
    Jaish-e-Mohammed
    Jemaah Islamiyah
    Boko Haram
    Abu Sayyaf

  7. #7
    There are good and bad people regardless of Religion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and di nato ganahan is Terrorism.

  8. #8
    Tanan religion same ra na, it is all about money and power.

  9. #9
    para nako religions are just beliefs and practices. i respect everybody's beliefs and practices. anha raman magkagubot kung ang ubang tao ila gyud iduot ilang kaugalingong tinuohan ug binuhatan sa uban tao.respetaray lang unta ug delikadesa.

  10. #10
    Question: Is there Any teaching in ISLAM that says LOVE your Enimies?

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