MERGED: MILF-GRP Peace Process, Related Issues and Developments

[butitoy]

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Well, I am just shocked at your short-sightedness.

You must be one of those who benefit from the wars...

what short sightedness?

is more than 20years of chaos short enuf?

yes, i benefited my self because i am already here in cebu, because no good job can be found in my hometown

once, my Beloved Gensan is a BOOMTOWN, business is picking up.

all so suddenly, BOMBedTOWN.. and businessmen fly away..

statiscally, my hometown since then had already experienced more than 10 bombings.

tell me, it is shortsightedness?

unsa may sala sa mga taga gensan ngao bombahan man?

nang daug-daug mi ug muslim brothers?

hell.. i got muslim as close friends, and they are not terrorist nor MILF

[mlhl@7]

PEACE TALK? This won't work to MILF...

[Sand Man]

so,do you really think you can disarmed them by talking with them peacefully?
then good luck! go ahead dude!

LOL ... All I am saying is that this "all-out-war" strategy has been done and it hasn't worked. Gubaton nato sila, bungkag tuod ilang kampo pero ang mga miyembro naa ra sa palibot, nagkatag, but still very determined to get back in the fight. So, are we going to do it all over again?

This thread is a good avenue for brainstorming on what else can be done besides "all-out-war", don't you think?

Quiet frankly I feel that those schmucks who post one-liners who don't have a freaking clue what they're advocating should be muted at least from this thread. Nindut na unta ang discussion then mokalit ra ug butt-in "exterminate them all" ... Saon?

Personally, I would like to read the opinions from the members here (especially those from Mindanao) that's why I keep coming back to this thread. Wa koy background kaayo about the mess over there pero the more I read from the links and from the constructive contributions from some of the members, I slowly get the big picture.

We have a wealth of members on here who come from, lived, and grew in that area and I don't think ALL of them want a war.

[Sand Man]

what short sightedness?

is more than 20years of chaos short enuf?

I am glad that you are from there and it seems to me (based on your response to Gareb) that you do not advocate war but just to go after the bandits. I believe this is what our Armed Forces is doing right now as we speak.

It is also clear from your post that it is not only the insurgents who are the problem but also some corrupt AFP officials.

From what you saw when you were there, is there an alternative solution to this problem besides going to war?

[gareb]

am i labeling them all including our peace loving muslim brothers as criminals?
i think u are out of sync.

are u saying as u have posted that all of them are MILF rebels?
cuz i don't. i am ONLY REFERRING to the bandits and their supporters who are currently at weapons reach with the AFP.

you are the one who is out of sync and need to clarify what you are saying. you come in labeling them as bandits and barbarians out of context, giving examples of how "Moro independence" is supposedly fought for, supposedly insisting that you were only referring to "bandits and their supporters", and not to the "peace loving muslim brothers".

question: why do we call them "brothers" if they do what we expect them to do and "bandits" and "barbarians" if they don't? do we possess the standard for good behavior?

now you are putting the militants levels as the city hoodlums and thugs, organized syndicates.gamblers. WAKE UP! we are talking about the MILF here.don't change the subject. Focus!

i did not. you did. review your posts.

seen them..yes. have u lived in the place affected by them? what are u? from LAME CHR?

you do not know me and where i am coming from and the things that i have seen. do not make any assumptions. and watch you language. consider this as your warning.

all possible ways? have'nt the government HAVE HAD GIVEN it? and what ? violate the agreements? are you reading news?

clearly you have not taken the time to read through the entire thread before you entire the discussion swashbuckling-style. you answer queries with questions and you do not justify your position, but instead troll your way into the thread.

tell me, what's the root cause of their rebellion?
for all i know it's all about the money..
damn government is playing with it because generals and politicians are making money out of it.
buying surplus 105mm at 2-3k ( as old abs cbn | gma news broadcast it ) then liquidate it at 7k plus each x 10 rounds a day
mayors doing doubleface to get revenue from kidnappings

of course its the money. but there are deeper issues concerned rather that trivial billions.

genocide? are u out of ur mind? what's this Crotia? Bosnia-herzegovina?
u are the one talking about genocide here. i mere talking about ending the chaos by totally ending the armed bandits.
i am not talking about eradication of local populace.

it is going to be a genocide if you want to eradicate a problem that is endemic to a people's situation, as you have to eliminate them entirely. the problem of Mindanao is not the MILF or any other armed group that exists there as these are mere outgrowths, mere complications of a pre-existing problem.

whether or not you agree, the reason why there was, and is, an armed uprising in these parts of Mindanao, is rooted in socio-economic problems. where the uprising went from there is up to you and your impressions, good or bad, correct, or hopelessly mistaken.

Government should at the first place secure the people an its republic represented by ensuring peace thru
give the proper services < questionable
proper settlement < land | toiling lands | house < questionable
ampatuans are landlords of their province, owning lands more than they should have and have a non-corrupt AFP to protect its constituents.

correct. these are the basic needs that a government should provide through ARMM, but have never materialized due to its inherent corruption.

according to Zun-Tsu
to protect peace, we must be ready for war.

"ready" for war; not "wage" it. and as there is no peace without justice, the disenfranchised will always be ready to pick up arms instead of suffering through a meaningless peace.

[bosin]

kay no to peace talks! coz they are talking advantage of it!

[aguanta]

"labelling" these guys as "bandits" or "criminals" or even "rebels" based solely on where they live and thheir religion/supersitition does not help.

often these labels are ab initio biased and merely intends to put sectors/people in a corner.

when the Afghan tribesmen fought against the Russian invaders, US Pres Ronald Reagan called them "Freedom Fighters" When the same Afghan tribesmen fought against the occupying Americans, they became "rebels" and "terrorists" When Pope Urban II sent his Crusaders to the Middle East to slaughter Muslims, they were "soldiers of God" and were given a free straight-to-heaven tickets. (their battle cry was "God Wills It" and sported a logo on their capes, the cross) When Saladin led various tribes to drive away the Europeans out of Jerusalem, he was honored and Muslims today call him The Great Saladin.

when Bonifacio hacked those Spaniards, including probably native collaborators, the authorities then hunted him like a criminal. today, he is hero. I know somebody who was chief of police in one of the towns during the Japanese occupation. He must have been hailed by the Japanese as a hero, and labeled by his town mates as a ruffian and a cad.

when some enterprising businessman brings in cheap medicine from India or Canada, we call them smugglers. heheheheheh.

popular labels are not necessarily the "truth" rather they are merely the current belief --- which could change over time.

just a thought

[YellowSubmarine]

you can supply the figures, if you want. it would also be better if we also know how to classify these skirmishes; a violation of ceasefire agreements? one hand offering conciliation while the other is holding a dagger?

My point there is even if there's a standing peace talk we can't avoid spending money for the military because any time either of the opposing sides could cross the line and war could break out. We take their camps, then return it to them, then back to square one. Then a line again is crossed, war breaks out, camps taken then returned, and back to square one again. This process could repeat to an endless cycle and each process cost us money. The longer it will take us to stop it the higher the cost.

War is expensive I know but it's the only way. Peace talk is a failure, unless perhaps either one gives up. Why don't we try a different approach instead of doing something that's already failed? Do we expect a different result using the same method?

[KlaytoN]

LOL ... All I am saying is that this "all-out-war" strategy has been done and it hasn't worked. Gubaton nato sila, bungkag tuod ilang kampo pero ang mga miyembro naa ra sa palibot, nagkatag, but still very determined to get back in the fight. So, are we going to do it all over again?

LOL... This is sooo NOT TRUE! It's like sayin death penalty has been done and it hasn't worked.. Do you see the striking similarity?

Tinuod bai ila mga myembro naa ra sa palibot, pero maglisod jud sila kung walay kampo. Besides ang Erap Formula was not fully implemented till the end because his term was cut short.. Kung gipadayon pa lang ang Erap formula, it's very possible nagstart na unta ang development sa mga affected areas..

Isa pa sa akong na remember, during the all-out-war, daghan mga MILF nag surrender almost on a daily basis and this is not an overstatement. I myself is a witness of the all-out-war kay taga dinhi ko sa Lanao..

Kabalo ba mo what really happened in 2000? Kabalo ba mo what triggered the all-out-war? Palihug ayaw ninyo e compare ang situation karon sa Abarka ug Sibugay sa sitwasyon during Erap's time...

Even though i don't like Erap as president, but as commander-in-chief, i have to admit that his formula did work out here in mindanao, it's just that it was not carried on till completion by the next administration.. Grabe ang lobbying sa mga Lakas-Kampi Moro politicians kay GMA to go back to the "negotiating table".. Sayang kaayo ang opportunity that For the past 30 years that was only the time (between 2000 until 2002) where the Philippine Government through the AFP took control almost 100% of Mindanao... When Pandak's admin opted to go back to peace talks, many of the 46 camps were given back to the rebels..

[YellowSubmarine]

Rebellion is like cancer. The best way to stop it is to remove is asap. The longer you have it the more the more it spreads and the more complicated it will get. If these rebellions were quelled many years ago those people planning to rebel might get a second thought on taking up arms and would find another avenue to air their grievances. Ako ra pud nang dos centimos.