Legalize Abortion?

[giddyboy]

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Contraceptives Are Not Abortifacients

What Opponents Say:

Medical contraceptives like the pill, IUDs, and emergency contraception are not contraception at all – they cause abortions. They do not prevent pregnancy, they destroy one already in process.

Reality Check:

It is believed that various birth control methods - including the pill - can work by preventing the implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus. For all contraceptives, this is at most a tertiary function. Implantation is the critical first step in pregnancy, and is recognized by scientific organizations like National Institutes of Health (NIH), American College of Gynecologist (ACOG), American Medical Association (AMA), British Medical Association (BMA) and others as the scientific definition for the beginning of a pregnancy. Therefore, the prevention of implantation comes before the start of a pregnancy and cannot be considered an abortion.

Because these contraceptive methods work prior to implantation, they have been an accepted and widely used means of pregnancy prevention for decades and are widely accepted in the medical and scientific community as a safe and effective means of contraception.

The prevailing medical professional association-the American Medical Association-debated the subject and rejected the idea that these birth control methods are abortifacients after finding no evidence to support the claim. ("Recent Activities: 2001")

source: rhrealitycheck.org

[wikki]

its a yes, this country is very poor and overly populated. besides people are already doing it. legalizing it would make it less a hastle for people to do. and people will still do it even if its not legal. why? because its pratical now a days.

[giddyboy]

its a yes, this country is very poor and overly populated. besides people are already doing it. legalizing it would make it less a hastle for people to do. and people will still do it even if its not legal. why? because its pratical now a days.

pls don't be confused here. nobody here i think is for legalization of abortion. I'm against abortion. Our Phil laws explicitly treats abortion as a crime.

what is being debated here instead is whether artificial contraceptives (pills and IUD) can cause abortion or not. that's why those quarters who believe it can cause abortion gives the opinion that making contraceptives available in the Phils is tantamount to promoting abortion. but of course, not everyone agrees on that...

another point of the debate is whether we should support or be against the passage of the Reproductive Health Bill into law.

[giddyboy]

But that doesn't mean the government should promote those abortifacients either! And that is what the RH bill will do. So YOU should wake up.

The RH Bill does not favor MFP over NFP. it favors both without bias. It does not force couples to use MFP. It gives them the freedom of choice between MFP and NFP (or both)!!!

while I should respect the opinion of the Catholic church and pro-life groups, the RH Bill is a matter of policy and not of faith or dogma.

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Hontiveros confident on passage of RH Bill
Saturday, July 18, 2009

By Elias O. Baquero

A PARTY-LIST legislator yesterday expressed confidence that senators and congressmen in the bicameral committee will vote in favor of the Reproductive Health (RH) Bill.

Rep. Risa Hontiveros (Akbayan Partylist) said that while they respect the opinion of Catholic Church bishops and other religious leaders, the RH bill is not a matter of faith
but of a national policy that will be good for the people, especially women.

Hontiveros stressed that the RH Bill is not an abortion bill, as what some of its critics are saying, and nothing in the measure will amend the Revised Penal Code penalty
on abortion.

She said there will be amendments to the measure, as suggested by various sectors, before the bicameral committee votes whether to approve it.

Hontiveros said she is sure the bill will be passed when Congress resumes session.

Last week, Senator Pia Cayetano also expressed her support for the measure during her visit to Cebu.

full article:
Hontiveros confident on passage of RH Bill | Sun.Star Network Online

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BENHUR SUPPORTS RH BILL
Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Sun.Star Cebu

...Despite criticisms from the Catholic church, Salimbangon said he remains a strong supporter of the Reproductive Health (RH) Bill because people should be educated on natural family planning.

"I believe that the RH Bill is not an abortion bill but will instead favor the people in terms of their rights to health information," Salimbangon said.

Earlier, Rep. Nerissa Soon-Ruiz, Rep. Riza Hontiveros-Baraquiel, and Sen. Pia Cayetano said they are confident the RH Bill will be pased into law because while they respect the opinion of the Catholic church, it's a matter of policy and not of faith.

When Lagman visited the University of San Carlos (USC) on Nov. 27 last year, he said that only 76 votes (of congressmen) are needed for the RH Bill to become a law. However, 113 representatives have already signifies their support for the bill.

[mannyamador]

Church confident to beat family planning bill
http://www.cbcpnews.com/?q=node/9665

MANILA, July 16, 2009— The Catholic Church said it has enough support in Congress to defeat a controversial family planning bill pushing for birth control.

Fenny Tatad, executive director of the church lobby group Bishops-Legislators Caucus of the Philippines, expressed confidence Thursday that they have the numbers.

A “big number” of those who had originally backed the bill have since changed their stand after having been briefed about the moral, constitutional and scientific infirmities about it, she said.

One of the authors of the Reproductive Health bill, Albay Rep. Edcel Lagman, earlier said 22 more legislators have joined the original 108 who wanted the measured approved.

Lagman also revealed that about 24 more congressmen -- on top of the 130 -- have pledged to vote for the passage of the bill.

The lawmaker said they do not need the 130 figure, plus the 24 others to pass the bill because they only need a majority of the quorum. There are now 265 members of the lower House.

Tatad, however, described Lagman’s claim as “completely wishful and fanciful.” She said majority of the congressmen are expected to side with the church.

The proponents of the bill, she said, “are obviously trying to create some kind of bandwagon effect with their false claim.”

“The truth, however, is that more and more lawmakers have come to realize the moral and constitutional defects of the bill and are not ready to face the electorate next year with a record of having supported a bill that is immoral, unconstitutional and harmful to women,” said Tatad.

Population control is a highly politicized issue in the Philippines, where more than 80 percent of the 90 million Filipinos are Catholics.

The bill on maternal health care, which has been pending in Congress for months, requires the government to promote artificial family planning if it becomes a law.

The measure will also include s** education for students and advice on artificial contraception, which the church considers immoral.

The Catholic hierarchy is set firmly against the bill even if independent surveys show that over 80 percent of the population support artificial family planning.

Some bishops have said they will refuse communion and other sacrament to politicians who support the bill.

Others warn that the church’s crucial backing in the 2010 national elections will only be given to those who oppose the bill. (Roy Lagarde)

well, doesn't the good Rep del Mar know too that the fight in support of the bill has also become an uphill battle?

The above story sees things differently. Like they say, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. So don't count your chickens before they hatch.

By the way, here's the part that you conveniently omitted in your quote from the Sun star story. Hmm... I wonder why? Were you perhaps worried that the truth would spoil the bandwagon effect you are trying to achieve?

Fortunately, I am no liar, so I'll even include the title of the story, which is "damaging" to my position. You see, just because YOU are a liar doesn't mean I have to be one too. I can always beat you with the truth. Here's tthe rest of the article:

From: RH bill’s supporters outnumber critics, ‘but GMA may veto it’
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/rh-bi...veto-it’

“If she is true to her word as based on her State of the Nation Address last year, in which she expressed her preference for natural methods of family planning, then she will possibly veto the RH bill as soon as the House and the Senate pass it,” said del Mar.

The congressman attended yesterday afternoon’s March for Life held in the Fuente Osmeña circle, and told reporters the fight against the bill has become an uphill battle.

Also at the march were former senator Kit Tatad, Mandaue City Mayor Jonas Cortes, Talisay City Mayor Socrates Fernandez and Lapu-Lapu City Councilor Efren Herrera.

Church officials who attended the rally prayed for the President to remain unwavering in her decision to be pro-life.

Msgr. Esteban Binghay, episcopal vicar of the Cebu Archdiocese, said he prays that lawmakers, particularly those supporting the bill, will heed their conscience and see that the bill questions the country’s morality as a Christian-dominated nation.

Cebu Archbishop Ricardo Cardinal Vidal, who was in Badian town to celebrate the feast day of St. James the Apostle, sent this message: “Let the Law of God prevail against the law of man.”

Del Mar revealed that more lawmakers have become co-authors of the bill.

Del Mar said he expects majority of the Senate will support the bill, save for Senate Minority Leader Aquilino Pimentel Jr., who has expressed his opinion against it.

“It’s too good, too well-packaged, yet so deceptive. No one wants to debate on something that can improve family planning, but yet hidden in it is the promotion of artificial contraceptives and abortion,” said del Mar.

Yesterday’s March for Life rally drew over a thousand participants, particularly from Catholic groups. Those who attended were Catholic church organizations, students from Catholic schools from across Metro Cebu and students from Cebu’s universities.

According to Dr. Rene Bullecer of the Human Life International Philippines, the organizers expected only 20 participants from each organization, but were glad about the turnout.

--

It is good to see that Congressman del Mar can see through the nice packaging of the RH bill and found that the bill really does promote abortion!



NO TO THE ABORTIFACIENT-PROMOTING RH BILL!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the deadly Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

[mannyamador]

PRI Gives Fresh Face to Sound Population Theory
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jul/09072707.html

Overpopulation is a Myth
http://www.overpopulationisamyth.com/

NO TO RH BILL || NO TO ABORTION || YES TO LIFE!

[wikki]

@mannyamador - overpopulation is a myth? wow, now thats stupid. China and India. thats all i can say.

[Arshen]

abortion is not the answer...family planning and educating the young ones today is still the best move

[mannyamador]

@mannyamador - overpopulation is a myth? wow, now thats stupid. China and India. thats all i can say.

Yes, it seems that's all you can say. Maybe you may wish to do a little more reading on the issue, sir. Try those links above. And perhaps some of the previous posts. We have already agreed here that it IS a myth. We aren't all stupid to you, are we?


NO TO RH BILL || NO TO ABORTION || YES TO LIFE!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the deadly Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

[mannyamador]

I didn't specifically say condoms. i was talking about contraceptives in general.

Yes you DID specifically say condoms. You have been caught LYING again!

Here is what you said, found at: https://www.istorya.net/forums/politi...ml#post5147343

they even went as far as saying that the use of condoms is against nature. so that means to err on the side of caution is we should not even use condoms daw.

We were talking about "erring on the side of caution" with respect to whether some contraceptives are abortifacients. But then you tried to include condoms perhaps to make the pro-life side look silly. That is a deceptive tactic. But whatever your reasons the fact is that I have caught you lying AGAIN. You seem to be quite a HABITUAL LIAR.

but didn't even make a budge about why condoms are sold everywhere in the first place. you didn't even make a budge when asked why herbal pampa regla is proliferating in the streets and even near churches

LOL!!! In case you haven't noticed I have stated many times that I am against artificial and abortifacient contraceptives. That includes condoms and herbal abortifacients, you know. This is the dumbest lie from you yet!

I guess Wakkanakka was really justified when he wondered whether you lie to your wife too.

what's below the belt is accusing me of being a liar!

Unless, of course, the accusation is TRUE.

Well, I have just exposed your two most recent lies above. Below is another one of your lies that was exposed here recently. You are truly a PROVEN LIAR.

From: https://www.istorya.net/forums/politi...ml#post5015316

i am not falsely claiming. i was just basing it on your statement. and it's not that i don't like the sentence structure but i'm pointing out an error in the sentence structure. there's a big difference there.

You are truly a LIAR. Here is what you actually posted:

Oh God, now u don't want to admit u said a fertilized egg is a fetus. now u say u only said embryo.

c'mon. i think everybody here agrees w/ me that u r juggling the terms fertilized egg, fetus, and embryo. While u can somehow get away w/ "embryo", you can't get away w/ "fetus".

u never said the fertilized egg fits the description of a fetus? whoa, ako na nuon ang deceptive here

In all three of those posts, you were claiming that I said the fertilized egg was a fetus. YOU WERE PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

I CAUGHT YOU LYING AGAIN. YOU ARE A LIAR, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR

That's three strikes (actually more), Mr. RH. It's prettty obvious you are following the deceptive tactics used by the pro-aborts in the US years ago to get abortion legalized. I guess you know you can't win and get that stupid RH bill passed without lying. But it looks like you've refined the art of lying even more so now you can sneak in abortion (through abortifacients) with the RH bill as the vehicle! I wonder what's next?

Cong. Del Mar was quite right when he noted the deceptive nature the pro-RH campaign to pass the bill! Your lies epitomize the RH side's deceptions to a T!. They couldn't have picked a better posterboy (or girl)!


NO TO THE ABORTIFACIENT-PROMOTING RH BILL!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the deadly Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)