Ha ha ha. Ayaw lang kasuko.
About relatives nga nasantos na. Â*I agree nga dili na sure kung nasantos ba gyud sila. Â*But then again you just rely on faith nga nasantos na sila. Â*Lain ba sad nga mag huna huna pa ka, dili lang ko mangayo ug intercession nila kay basin na impyerno sila. Â*Kalain.
Just rely on faith that they are in heaven.
About gipahiran nga santos, well its an expression of love and reverence. Â*Di man nato sila mahikap kay naa pa man ta diri sa kalibutan but at least adto na lang nato i express sa ila representation. Â*Ikaw bitaw mo kiss man ka sa picture sa imo love ones as a sign of love.
Pareha ra na siya. Â*Ayaw sige paminaw anang yawit sa mga pastor sa born again groups kay mag sige gyud na sila ug daut sa katoliko para maka recruit aron modako ang ilang koleksyon. Â*
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Thread: RELIGION
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08-12-2005, 08:29 AM #71Senior Member
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Re: RELIGION
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08-12-2005, 08:33 AM #72Junior Member
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Re: RELIGION
i never intend to judge you bai based sa imong gipang post coz ikaw mismo kahibaw sa imong gibarogan! ok? bisag ang yawa gani nitoo man gani og ginoo and wala sad syay lain nga gihuna huna kundi ang iyang kaugalingon interest.... whats the difference?
Originally Posted by riko diko
faith is good but it doesnt mean that faith is believing... it has a different context pre... sama sa akong ginaingon sa first paragraph... bisag ang yawa ni believe.... the question is.... ni himo ba sya og butang nga makiangayon sa Ginoo?
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08-12-2005, 08:37 AM #73Junior Member
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Re: RELIGION
hahaha sorry part wala ko nasuko.... depende na nimo sa imong pagbasa sa akong gipost... Originally Posted by s.n.m.p.
now youre saying man diay sa imong ba^ba^ nga dili paman diay klaro nga nalangit sya di ba? that explains your post....
And you are assuming again pre... nga nagcge kog paminaw sa yawit sa mga pastor... sama rana sa pagtuo sa uban nga you believe sila ang sakto so depende rasad na sa pag condition sa imong mind kung kinsa ang angay tuhoan og kinsa ang angay nga ingnon nga sakto... so for example if you believe that those pastors dili angay tuohan kay cge lang nag panaot... now you are generalizing things again... tsk tsk tsk
try daw og sulod sa uban bai unya paminaw... you will find out...
now speaking sa pictures og rebolto... im sorry bai kay LAHI ra jud na sila unya dili na sila matandi... asa ka kuha? kang brod. soc? just asking...
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08-12-2005, 08:43 AM #74Senior Member
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Re: RELIGION
Practical lang ko bay. I dont think nga naa impyerno sila kay Ginoo ra may nahibalo. Di ba? But to say nga dili mosangpit sa ila kay dili ka sure nalangit na sila you are the one condemning them di ba.
Ok instead of pictures buhatan ug rebulto imo loved ones, di ba you will do the same thing. Nothing wrong with kissing images. Myopic ra kaayo na nga pagsabot. Sa Biblia gi condemn to siya kay nag worship man sila ug lain gawas sa Ginoo. Kami katoliko nag worship diay mi ug lain nga si Jesus Christ ra man gihapun amo gi worship.
Di nako mosulod ug lain bay. Imbes noun gusto mo experience ug spiritual enlightenmant kada Domingo mura naman hinoun ta nag attend ug rally kay puro pandaot ug atake ato madunggan sa mga born again groups. Hatred ug contempt ang ila gigamit para ma sustain ila grupo. They used the Bible to attack Catholics instead of preaching the message of God embedded in the Bible.
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08-12-2005, 08:45 AM #75Junior Member
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Re: RELIGION
bai i admire the way you post and answer all my questions og grabeh pag utingkay word for word sa akong gipang post... first of all bai one of my weakness sa akoa i admit nga dili kaayo ko maayo mo istorya or mo talk or mo defend sa akong self by words... and i believe nakabantay naman ka ana... Originally Posted by dacs
Are there saints in paganism?Â* Do Catholics believe that saints are gods?Â* To both questions, no.Â* It may be your own thinking that is outdated and outrageous.Â* Obviously, you have not read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.Â* If you have, you would never have arrived to such conclusion and expose yourself to ridicule.Â* Mauwaw man pud siguro ka kung magpatakataka ka.Â* You are doing it, bro! Originally Posted by richard79
Debate diay ni?!Â* I thought this is just a discussion.Â* In an actual debate, the activity is moderated and judges are appointed.Â* Both criteria are not present here.Â* So, let us stop assuming that this is a debate. Originally Posted by richard79
I am not selling either.Â* Read Ephesians 3:10 - 'so that through the church the wisdom of God in its rich variety might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places' (NRSV).Â* Whose church is that?Â* There was only one Church founded by Christ, and He associates Himself to her.Â* This is further supported by 1 Timothy 3:15 - 'But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth'.Â* Listen to Mt. 28:20 – '... behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age'.Â* The Catholic Church has been in existence since the time of the apostles at least (as attested to by St. Ignatius of Antioch - the successor of St. Paul at that place).Â* If Christ promised that he will be with the Church always, Christ and the Holy Spirit sent by Him never departed from the Catholic Church.Â* Consequently, the Church cannot teach any falsehood. Originally Posted by richard79
Why?Â* Because, before that could happen, the Holy Spirit must have departed first.Â* After the departure of the Holy Spirit, falsehood could then enter the Church.Â* If that is what had happened, then Christ lied.Â* Yet, Christ told the truth.Â* Therefore, guided by the Holy Spirit, the Catholic Church cannot teach falsehood in matters of faith and morals.
Ever read 1 John 4:6 - 'We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit'?Â* Could your pastor trace his line of succession to the apostles?Â* I have already quoted to you the part of the Bible which says that no one can proclaim the gospel unless he is sent.Â* Who sent your pastor?Â* Please don't tell me it was God or Christ or the Paraclete or the Trinity.
Go to Matthew 18:15-18 and let me quote a part of that : 'If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector'.Â* If there is a question on the morality of contraceptives, which church do you listen to?Â* There are different voices among Protestant churches.Â* Some are for it; others are against it.Â* The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is against it.Â* In matter of divorce, most Protestant churches allow it but others don't.Â* The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is against it.Â* On the morality of mercy killing, Protestant churches are divided.Â* The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is against it.
Which church is the true church?Â* Which church will you listen to?Â* Are you free to decide which church to join or had Christ decided it for you?Â* Are you going to find a church that 'fits' you, or are you going to fit into the Church that Christ founded?
First of all.. if you try to check my post nag ask lang kog questions ok and im not putting something on this thread nga makahatag og kainit sa mga tigpamasa... anyways...to move on... another question part... it seems that you are very certain that your church is the real church or the true church as what youve said... but is there in the Bible mentioned about catholicism? can you really traced the history that peter started catholicism? please tell me.. maybe perhaps... you could say that catholicism is the true church because kani maoy pinakadugay but it doesnt mean nga mao nani ang gi endorse sa Ginoo. ok? try reading the whole bible and open up your mind bro... ok? thanks again for giving me such good answers...
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08-12-2005, 08:53 AM #76Senior Member
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Re: RELIGION
Clearly, religion is a very sensitive topic. What I do not understand, however, is why people feel the need to post anti-religious comments. What is interesting is that it is not the Catholics that start the flame war but instead, it is the anti-Catholic people who, out of the blue, break out with such comments.
Honestly, why do people post such things? I can totally understand that some people do not like certain religions. Hey, to each his own. But, why must you question the religion and its practices? Why the unprovoked, mean-spirited comments? There are some beliefs that people have that I think are silly, but I don’t go around flaming those who believe it.
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08-12-2005, 08:54 AM #77Junior Member
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Re: RELIGION
True depende na sa imong praktis pre.... kung mosangpit ka nila or dili depende sa imong praktis.... Originally Posted by s.n.m.p.
First of all im not doing this to condemn anybody or any religious denominations... now you were saying nga wala ka ampo og laing Ginoo right? try checking other people pre... and try checking your rosary... why not go directly to God instead of asking help from other saints or doing the rosary which cannot be found in the Bible... just a thought lang... ngano kaha?
And im asking you pre... what church imong naadtoan pre kay akoy mismo mokatawa nila kay kapoy kapoy lang sila sa ilang laway... Â* ive been checking some of the churches and it seems... nga ALMOST all wala kay madunggan nga modaot mismo sa Catholic church infact there was one church nga akong nasudlan and they even prayed for Pope John Paul after he died... and i was touched by their good hearts... so please try checking sa kanang church nga imong gisudlan pre nga cge og atake basig dili na church... basig rally gyud diay na!
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08-12-2005, 08:58 AM #78Junior Member
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Re: RELIGION
Ah resistance to change..... could please post such an article or a book or anything from the internet that says that its the anticatholic who started the war? maybe they are questioning it maybe because they see it that there's lot of loopholes and mistakes that catholics practiced right? try checking pud pre ngano kaha ni sila nibaliktad sa catholicism! Originally Posted by unofficialplayer
is like asking the same question.. why question the government and its practices? and giving such mean-spirited comments to those people who was just asking for the truth and wants to find the truth? WHY? it all boils down to your own thinking... why did i think like that? and why am i questioning such things? WHY WHY WHY?.... not a song
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08-12-2005, 09:02 AM #79Junior Member
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Re: RELIGION
ehem, dia akong tampo o, dong richard basaha ni dong, o. if u have anymore questions, maybe i can help u. pangutana lang.
It's amazing to me that some people have a hard time accepting the idea of asking saints to pray for them. Many non-Catholics have the mistaken concept that that our prayers to Mary and the Saints are prayers of adoration or worship. The Catholic Church teaches and has always taught that Catholics are to worship God alone. Prayer of worship to other than Almighty God would be idolatry. Our prayers to Mary and the Saints are only prayers asking for their intercession on our behalf. Many say that any form of communication with the dead including prayer to the saints is condemned by the Bible. Quite often they quote:
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
The practice of conjuring up spirits, and asking a servant of God to pray for you is quite different and this should be obvious to most people. Let me ask you a question. Do you think Jesus is an abomination to the Lord? Jesus conversed with the Dead. No I don’t mean instances when he raised Jairus’daughter from the dead by saying, “little girl arise.”(Mark 5:41) or when he raised his friend Lazarus from the dead by shouting “Lazarus come forth” (John 11:44). I’m talking about the time He chatted with Moses and Elias at the Transfiguration.
Mark 9:4
And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
Elias is the Greek form of the name Elijah that translators used in the KJV of the New Testament if you aren’t sure who Elias is. The KJV of the Bible is the only version that uses Elias all others use Elijah. Now we know that according to Scripture Elijah was carried away in a fiery chariot. There is no evidence in scripture that tells us he died so we won’t even discuss him. But Scripture not only tells us that Moses died but we are even told his age at his death.
Deuteronomy 34:5-7
So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
Catholics believe as do our non-Catholic Christian friends, that there is only one mediator between God and man and that mediator is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). We do believe, however, that there is nothing wrong with having a member of our church pray for us. There are many examples of this in the Bible. Paul asking for prayer, Paul praying for others, and scriptures encouraging us to pray for each other.
2 Thessalonians 3:1
Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
The above verses show that it was a common practice for Church members to pray for each other. I can’t see what difference it makes if the church member we ask to pray for us is no longer on earth if we honestly believe our God to be the God of the living?
Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
As Catholics we believe that the Church is composed of three groups of believers. The first group is known as the Church Militant. This group is composed of human beings still on earth trying to complete the work that Jesus commissioned them to do and trying to conform themselves to His image. The second group is the Church Suffering. These are those who are in Purgatory being purged of the venial sins and imperfections they have not repented of. The third group of the Church is known as the Church Triumphant. These believers are the departed saints. Those humans who have completed the work that Jesus commissioned them to do and who have conformed themselves to His image. Together these three groups form what is known as the Communion of Saints. Distinct from each other but incorporated into one body by the Holy Spirit at Baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:12-13
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Romans 12:4-5
For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
As members of Christ’s body, praying for each other is not only not condemned but encouraged.
1 Timothy 2:1-4
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Some non Catholics have asked me how Saints, being human, can understand prayers from many people speaking many different languages. Well one could bring out the fact that Saints will could have infused knowledge when in heaven and probably know all languages. We could also consider that since they aren’t limited by time and space many praying at once wouldn’t present a problem. You could also remember that even on earth people had and some still have the gift of interpreting tongues. It’s a charismatic gift of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps the best thing would be is to ask yourself, how would Jesus answer this question? Now in my mind I picture Jesus being asked this question and I see Him answering this question the same way He answered a question in Matthew 21:23. (Look it up.) Now this is how my imaginary situation would go. Jesus after being asked the above question responds. You ask, “How can a Saint in heaven understand prayers from many people from different nations?” I have a question for you. If you answer mine I will answer yours. “How could the many people from every nation under heaven understand the Apostles at Pentecost?”
Acts 2:5-11
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Finally on the subject of saints, let’s look at the following verse:
Revelation 5:8.
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Ask yourself and contemplate this question before ever dismissing the idea of having saints intercede for you. If the prayers offered to God were prayed directly to Him why did the saints have them in their possession? I will close with the following reflection. We are one body. We are the Body of Jesus Christ. Those in heaven, those in purgatory and those of us on earth work together and support each other just as each organ of a human body benefits the whole body. If something is wrong with one part of the body the rest of the body reacts. If you don’t believe this, ask yourself the following questions the next time you accidentally hit your thumb with a hammer. Why are my eyes tearing? Why has my respiration changed? Why do I feel nauseous? Do I look stupid sucking my thumb? Get the picture?
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08-12-2005, 09:10 AM #80Elite Member
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Re: RELIGION
Frankly, I would rather be spiritual than religious.
But, then, religion is our personal way of relating with our Supreme Being. I really don't give a damn whether you rant it out as holier-than-thou sentiment or I sing and dance with it.
What sends my goat on amok with this thread is how shameless can many people be --- especially the initiator of this thread --- on the insecurities of their perceived ex-cathedra correctness and self-importance. This is arrogance the heighest order.
If we pray to a God, why should we romp with it. As the Presbyterians used to say --- "why can't we just ponder it in our hearts?"
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