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  1. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by al1974 View Post
    I ask all who are anti-hyperwage to answer my question above with a yes or a no.
    The answer is not black and white.

    I've gone back through the thread and have yet to see anyone give a convincing answer to the primary issue I have been raising throughout (and I don't need to raise it again). All I've gotten are things already said in the book. Where the book raises more questions, there seem to be no answers. At least not on this board.

  2. #772
    I am asking a simple question and I am not even mentioning Hyperwage. Does that mean to say that if tomorrow, your salary will increase to a substantial level, will it not make you or any working individual have a better life?

    [/I]
    Quote Originally Posted by unsay_ngalan_nimo View Post
    no...

    when you say us.. you mean the educated skilled labour force of this country that can actually compete with labour market...

    in reality.. bisan college grad pa ka daghan wala trabaho... ask daw pila ka UP and USC, UC, UV or bisan unsa na school graduate every year ang nakatambay ra sa ila balay kay dili kapangita ug work...

    lisod mangita ug trabaho...

    if i answer yes to your question that mean im only to concern to enrich myself because i will not be losing anything...

    but im concern with those people that will lose their jobs, those who will have difficulty finding jobs becasue companies will be cutting down on numbers of their employees...

    i have to tell my helper to go back to the province because Im not willing to pay her that much, lahotugh ill probably earn as much as 100k still one fourth of it i have to pay to her, but i have rents to pay, electricity bill, water bill not to mention the grocery...

    ang presyo sa manok ug baboy unsa-on na lang... kay dako na man sweldo ang matador... pero basin di ay bisan sila mawad-an ug work kay ang mga salughter house kay pagamyon na lang ang number sa ila workers...

    in the end dwaghan gihapon ang wala trabaho.. daghan ang dili maka-eskwela and balik ta sa uno...

    people who are trap in the cycle of poverty beacuse they have no means such as education to break the cycle...

    the problem with hyperwage it assumes that if you immediately increase the wage automatic agad ang effect... wihtout thinking of the side effects...

    but see there must be a process before hyperwage can be implemented without aggravating the poverty problem of this country... this is what tarmac and the rest is trying to say...

    we need proper education to even out the playing field... we need labourer that can compete with the market... indian professionals are willing to work para sa masmababa na sahod... we can blame it on their high pop... tan-awa sa dubai naog ang sahod na daghan pinoy pero masdaghan indiano willing to receive less than what a filipino OFWs is willing to earn.

    you always point out the US is in hyperwage.. hello! was it hyperwage that made them into a first world? NO...

    We have OFWs, kung ganun kadali ang buhay doon why is it that most of them take years before they can actually bring their families there... as what an aunt said mahal din doon.. ok lang kung isa ka...

    may mura din namn daw.. pero ang munggo niya umabot ng isang linggo para masmaka-ipon ng pera pang padala sa pinas...tot hink nurse siya sa UK at may mga part time pa

    kung akala nyo pinupulot ang pera sa labas hindi namn siguro ganun yun.. mataas ang tax, mahal ang bahay, mahal ang bigas, mahal pagupit ng buhok...

    ganahn mo ug hyperwage sayon ra.. daghani ug trabaho pagamyon ang labourers....

    ang firts na maiigo sa hyperwage kay dili man ang Mcdonalds, or kanag mga dako na companya... no ang first na maiigo ana kay ang mga gamay na local businesses... unsa man ang result ana.. dghan ang walay trabaho...

    ka remember mo sa time na katong nisaka ang dollar and there were alot of local businesses closing down and the unemployment rate kay nitaas and there was the globalization issue... but mareng winnie monsod was saying in a tv program ok lang yan kase magmumura ang hershey at M&M... but our own products prices kay nisaka ug maayo... mura padung ingon ana man gud....

  3. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by al1974 View Post


    re- Call Centers, correct me if I am wrong, aren't they trained on their accent depending on their assigned region?
    True, but they don't always sound the way they should.

  4. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
    The answer is not black and white.

    I've gone back through the thread and have yet to see anyone give a convincing answer to the primary issue I have been raising throughout (and I don't need to raise it again). All I've gotten are things already said in the book. Where the book raises more questions, there seem to be no answers. At least not on this board.
    Why not a definite answer? Logic will tell you that if you will have a better salary, your finances will be better. Assuming of course, that you will not do something ridiculous like overspend, get a bigger house through a loan, etc.

  5. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by al1974 View Post
    I am asking a simple question and I am not even mentioning Hyperwage. Does that mean to say that if tomorrow, your salary will increase to a substantial level, will it not make you or any working individual have a better life?

    [/I]
    see you're only looking at the small picture and not the bigger one... if you say hyerwage is a solution it should have a collective beneficial effect to the population and not to a proportion of it.. if its main goal is to solve poverty in the philippines and just not to make a proprtion of the populaion have a better life while majority will sink deeper into poverty...

    your question is a leading one... and since ive been with the grassroots org for a long time i cannot accpet to have better life while i know that many filipinos will have none...
    Last edited by unsay_ngalan_nimo; 07-21-2009 at 11:00 PM.

  6. #776
    Quote Originally Posted by unsay_ngalan_nimo View Post
    no...

    when you say us.. you mean the educated skilled labour force of this country that can actually compete with labour market...

    in reality.. bisan college grad pa ka daghan wala trabaho... ask daw pila ka UP and USC, UC, UV or bisan unsa na school graduate every year ang nakatambay ra sa ila balay kay dili kapangita ug work...

    lisod mangita ug trabaho...

    Lisud mangita trabaho? Or tapulan mangita? Or hadlok ug interview? Or namayabas lang pad eskwela mao dili kapasar sa exam ug interview?

    if i answer yes to your question that mean im only to concern to enrich myself because i will not be losing anything...

    but im concern with those people that will lose their jobs, those who will have difficulty finding jobs becasue companies will be cutting down on numbers of their employees...

    i have to tell my helper to go back to the province because Im not willing to pay her that much, lahotugh ill probably earn as much as 100k still one fourth of it i have to pay to her, but i have rents to pay, electricity bill, water bill not to mention the grocery...

    ang presyo sa manok ug baboy unsa-on na lang... kay dako na man sweldo ang matador... pero basin di ay bisan sila mawad-an ug work kay ang mga salughter house kay pagamyon na lang ang number sa ila workers...

    in the end dwaghan gihapon ang wala trabaho.. daghan ang dili maka-eskwela and balik ta sa uno...

    people who are trap in the cycle of poverty beacuse they have no means such as education to break the cycle...

    Education is not a way out of poverty. It can help but will not ensure.

    the problem with hyperwage it assumes that if you immediately increase the wage automatic agad ang effect... wihtout thinking of the side effects...

    It do not assume. It follows a logical approach of understanding the chain reaction.

    but see there must be a process before hyperwage can be implemented without aggravating the poverty problem of this country... this is what tarmac and the rest is trying to say...

    we need proper education to even out the playing field... we need labourer that can compete with the market... indian professionals are willing to work para sa masmababa na sahod... we can blame it on their high pop... tan-awa sa dubai naog ang sahod na daghan pinoy pero masdaghan indiano willing to receive less than what a filipino OFWs is willing to earn.

    you always point out the US is in hyperwage.. hello! was it hyperwage that made them into a first world? NO...

    We have OFWs, kung ganun kadali ang buhay doon why is it that most of them take years before they can actually bring their families there... as what an aunt said mahal din doon.. ok lang kung isa ka...
    Of course it will take years for them to stabilize their finances in other countries. Why? when they arrive there, are they already provided with everything? Where is your logic there?

    may mura din namn daw.. pero ang munggo niya umabot ng isang linggo para masmaka-ipon ng pera pang padala sa pinas...tot hink nurse siya sa UK at may mga part time pa

    kung akala nyo pinupulot ang pera sa labas hindi namn siguro ganun yun.. mataas ang tax, mahal ang bahay, mahal ang bigas, mahal pagupit ng buhok...

    Who's saying this? Are you nuts? Where in the world will this place be? Don't put these illogical thoughts upon me. Nobody is saying that money in other countries are easy. Its just that there salary there is higher. A nurse less than a week salary in London could but a TV. Here, it will take the same nurse 15 days or more to buy the same TV. Ergo- there salaries are higher because it will take them lesser time compared here.

    ganahn mo ug hyperwage sayon ra.. daghani ug trabaho pagamyon ang labourers....

    ang firts na maiigo sa hyperwage kay dili man ang Mcdonalds, or kanag mga dako na companya... no ang first na maiigo ana kay ang mga gamay na local businesses... unsa man ang result ana.. dghan ang walay trabaho...

    ka remember mo sa time na katong nisaka ang dollar and there were alot of local businesses closing down and the unemployment rate kay nitaas and there was the globalization issue... but mareng winnie monsod was saying in a tv program ok lang yan kase magmumura ang hershey at M&M... but our own products prices kay nisaka ug maayo... mura padung ingon ana man gud....
    Very shallow arguments.

  7. #777
    Quote Originally Posted by unsay_ngalan_nimo View Post
    see you're only looking at the small picture and not the bigger one... if you say hyerwage is a solution it should have a collective beneficial effect to the population and not to a proportion of it.. if its main goal is to solve poverty in the philippines and just not to make a proprtion of the populaion have a better life while majority will sink deeper into poverty...

    your question is a leading one... and since ive been with the grassroots org for a long time i cannot accpet to have better life while i know that many filipinos will have none...
    This is a very hypocrite answer. So its okay for your kids to suffer or live a life that can not get better. Get real.

    If your life can get better, then you can have a chance to make other people's lives better. If you can make your kid's life better, then you have made a difference.

  8. #778
    One blind man can not lead another, otherwise both will be lost.

    If you can not make your life better, then you can not make other's lives better.

  9. #779
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    Quote Originally Posted by al1974 View Post
    Why not a definite answer? Logic will tell you that if you will have a better salary, your finances will be better. Assuming of course, that you will not do something ridiculous like overspend, get a bigger house through a loan, etc.
    Definite answer? Why not a definite answer to my questions?

    Who in the whole wide world doesn't want a better salary?!? Money is something one can never have enough of, they say.

    Please read back through my previous posts. Where have I ever said that more money is not good? Have I ever questioned that? As a matter of fact, I have always agreed that purchasing power is key. Keynes said that a long time ago, not Bentulan. We also covered that in my Economics 102 class circa 1987.

    But to conclude that saying Yes to your question means I agree to everything that Hyperwage Theory says is a falsity.

    To say that I am anti-poor by disagreeing with points in the Hyperwage Theory is likewise fallacious reasoning.

    And to say that I do not want the Philippines to break this cycle of poverty, that I do not want my fellow Filipinos to live a better life because I have reservations about the Hyperwage Theory is outright sophistry.
    Last edited by Tarmac; 07-22-2009 at 12:06 AM.

  10. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by al1974 View Post
    This is a very hypocrite answer. So its okay for your kids to suffer or live a life that can not get better. Get real.

    If your life can get better, then you can have a chance to make other people's lives better. If you can make your kid's life better, then you have made a difference.
    You're answering a specific objection with platitudes.

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