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  1. #671

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?


    Quote Originally Posted by wormwoods View Post
    Study your religion first before making such conclusion. UNITY in belief does not necessarily mean UNIFORMITY of expression -ravi zacharias.

    We believe as a diverse being created in the image of God, we are an individual with different personalities, expressions, likings. Ex: Some christians are happy-clappy type while some prefer a solemn worship. What's important is not the label on the bottle but what's inside of it. We Christians united in the same Spirit and we believe on the same Saviour.

    We know that you muslims also have divisions but we understand that.

    Divisions within Islam

    by Matt Slick
    Because of Islam's great growth geographically in the first two centuries of its inception, there needed to be a larger set of Islamic laws capable of handling the different needs of Muslims throughout the Empire. The Qur'an and the Hadith were not detailed enough to provide all the answers. Therefore, in the 8th century A.D., there arose a school of legal experts who interpreted and applied Islamic principles to different situations throughout the Empire. However, different scholars disagreed with these experts in various areas. This led to a variety of legal schools of thought within Islam.
    These different schools became different sects within Islam. The largest of the sects is the Sunni which comprises about 90% of all Muslims. The next two largest are the Shi'i and Sufi. After these, there are numerous splinter groups which are often named after the individual scholars who began them: Hanifa, after Abu Hanifa; Maliki, after Malik ibn Anas; Shafi'i, after Muhammad ibn Idris al-Shafi'i; Zaydi, after Zayd ibn Ali; the Nusayri, Ismaili, Murji'ah, etc.
    Sunni Muslims

    Sunni Muslims These are followers of the Hanifa, Shafi, Hanibal and Malik schools. They constitute a 90% majority of the believers, and are considered to be main stream traditionalists. Because they are comfortable pursuing their faith within secular societies, they have been able to adapt to a variety of national cultures, while following their three sources of law: the Qur'an, Hadith and consensus of Muslims.
    The Sunni emphasize the power and sovereignty of Allah and his right to do whatever he wants with his creation. Strict determinism is taught. Its rulership is through the Caliphate, the office of Muslim ruler who is considered the successor to Muhammad. This successor is not through hereditary lineage.
    Shi'ite Muslims

    The Shi'ites (also known as the Ja'firi school) split with the Sunni over the issue of the successor to Muhammad. This split occured after the assassination of the fourth caliph in 661. Shi'ites believe that the successor to Muhammad should have been Ali, his son in law, and that subsequent successors should have been through his lineage through his wife Fatima.
    Shi'ism is broken into three main sects: the Twelve-Imam, (Persia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Pakistan, and Syria), the Zaydis (Yemen), and the Ismailis (India, Iran, Syria, and East Africa). Each group, of course, has differences of doctrine.
    "Shi'ite theology includes a doctrine known as the five supports: these are Divine Unity (tawhid), prophecy (nubuwwah), resurrection of the soul and body at the Judgment (ma'ad), the Imamate1 (imamah), and justice ('adl). The first three are found in Sunni Islam, albeit with some differences of emphasis; the Imamate, however , is the essence of Shi'ism, and the last, justice, is an inheritance from the Mu'tazilites, or rationalists, whose system is in many ways perpetuated in Shi'ite theology..." The Imamate, fom the word "Imam", in the Shi'ite traditions is the political and religious leader of the Shi'ite sect. This person possesses great power and influence. According to Shi'ite doctrine, the Imam must be a biological successor of Ali. The Imam is also sinless and infallible on all matters of Islamic doctrine and will intercede for Muslims in the afterlife. The Shi'i and the Sunni differ in some interpretations of the Qur'an and Hadith and even have a different canon of Hadith and the Sunni.
    Sufi Muslims

    The Sufi are a mystical tradition where the followers seek inner mystical knowledge of God. This sect "officially" developed around the 10th century and has since fragmented into different orders: Ahmadiyya, Qadariyya, Tijaniyya, etc. Of course, the Sufi believe their roots can be traced back to the inception of Islam in the early 7th century.
    The Sufi mystic must follow a path of deprivation and meditation. There are various forms of abstinence and poverty. Worldly things are renounced and a complete trust in God's will is taught. The goal is to attain to a higher knowledge and experience of Allah. The mystical focus meant that the Qur'an could be interpreted in different ways and so Sufism taught that the Qur'an had mystical meanings hidden within its pages. Out of this mysticism a type of pantheism developed among some Sufi believers. Pantheism is the teaching that God and the universe are one. Of course, the orthodox Muslims, called the Sunni, reject this idea since they claim that Allah is the creator of the universe and distinct from it.
    In part, Sufism arose as a reaction to the growing Islamic materialism that had developed in the Empire at that time. Islam had achieved great power and geographical scope and with it, the material gain was great.
    Conclusion

    As you can see, Islam is not the united religious system it claims to be. There are divisions among its ranks and even those divisions have divisions. But what is interesting is that the Qur'an tells the Muslims to have no such divisions.
    "The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the [sic] which we have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which we enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them..." (42:13)
    If this is the case, then the Muslim must admit that the divisions within Islam are sinful. But, such is the nature of humanity, to divide and set ourselves against one another.
    We may have different sects in Islam but we don't differ about whom are we going to worship and who is our prophet, it's all in our SHAHADA(Testimony of Faith) we all say, "LAA ILAHA ILALLAH, MUHAMMADAR RASULALLAH" in english translation "THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH, MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH". We face the same direction in prayer that is we face to MAKKAH as clear sign of our UNITY. We go to MAKKAH for HAJJ once in year as sign of our commitment to the covenant of ALLAH and Prophet Abraham(pbuh).

    Ayaw pagsulti sa wa ka kahibalo kay bad na!(You shall not bear false witness). Imong source internet lang unya imong kontrahon ang Muslim nga mi-profess sa iyang faith.

  2. #672

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by JcBoY View Post
    We may have different sects in Islam but we don't differ about whom are we going to worship and who is our prophet, it's all in our SHAHADA(Testimony of Faith) we all say, "LAA ILAHA ILALLAH, MUHAMMADAR RASULALLAH" in english translation "THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH, MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH". We face the same direction in prayer that is we face to MAKKAH as clear sign of our UNITY. We go to MAKKAH for HAJJ once in year as sign of our commitment to the covenant of ALLAH and Prophet Abraham(pbuh).

    Ayaw pagsulti sa wa ka kahibalo kay bad na!(You shall not bear false witness). Imong source internet lang unya imong kontrahon ang Muslim nga mi-profess sa iyang faith.
    i respect you for that. Just continue with what you believe to be true. We are not forcing anybody here.

    Wasalam Allaikum!

  3. #673

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by wormwoods View Post
    i respect you for that. Just continue with what you believe to be true. We are not forcing anybody here.

    Wasalam Allaikum!
    On that note, I will do say "Wa alaykumus salam ya akhi wormwoods"

  4. #674

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by wormwoods View Post
    Akong pangutana, sa tanang member diri sa istorya pareha ba nimo ug panghunahuna?
    Kung mao na inyong pagtreat diri sa mga Christian post, WALA JUD NAY PROBLEMA! at least kasabot nami.

    But still dili gihapon na makapugong sa pagshare sa kamatuoran!

    marine77 out-wormwoods in. wormwoods out.....
    wa jud tubaga akong pangutana.

    If walay problema nganu mu reklamu manka nga na close? naa ba diay way problema nga Mureklamu?

    Abi nakog nakasabot ka, kasayun ana i analize.

  5. #675
    Elite Member King's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by SioDenz View Post
    Di jud dapat mamugos kay same ra baya tah nangita sa kamatuoran. Ang Ginoo ray dunay Gahom para makakita sa atung kasing-kasing if Nagsubay ba jud ta OR sakto ba jud atung Pagtuo niya. Di man gani ta makahibalo if atung gibuhat sakto ba or dili, ang ubang tawo na nuon.
    when you say same sa kamatuoran, i don't agree with that. True Christian follow what Jesus Christ did. Yes, there is only one true God, His name is Jehovah. si Jesus mismo wala niuyon sa mga religious leaders nga nag angkon nga gibuhat nila ang tanan, same sa pagkakaron, dili tanan ingon nga naa sa kamatuoran.

    and we need to learn from the Bible alone, not from someone you didn't know from the internet listening to them. Bible is the Basis of true faith.

    Lets make this thread clean.
    Last edited by King; 06-14-2012 at 03:30 PM.

  6. #676

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    Kini nga thread sama rani sa istorya na ni Juan tamad…andam siya maghuwat matagak ang bayabas aron makaon niya...so Faith = bayabas Juan tamad = you?

  7. #677

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by genesis11 View Post
    Obviously mo i attack dayon ni nila si Kent Hovind.. Sagdi na sila..
    Taymsa ha, murag na curious na hinuon ko.. Naunsa diay si Dr. Dino brad?



    PS. Wala bya ko nang attack sa inyong beloved Dr. Kent Hovind PhD. .

  8. #678

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    when you say same sa kamatuoran, i don't agree with that. True Christian follow what Jesus Christ did. Yes, there is one God, His name is Jehovah.
    I said same NANGITA sa Kamatuoran, I did Not say kitang tanan Same sa Kamatuoran. Tarunga daw ug sabot para di malibog.

    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    si Jesus mismo wala niuyon sa mga religious leaders nga nag angkon nga gibuhat nila ang tanan, same sa pagkakaron, dili tanan ingon nga naa sa kamatuoran.
    Wala bitaw, Wa ganahi si Kristo sa magsasangyaw nga kusog musulti nga siya ra ang nakasabot ang uban wala. Wa sad ganahi si Kristo anang mga tawo nga nagtuo nga sila ray sakto ang uban sayop.

    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    and we need to learn from the Bible alone, not from someone you didn't know from the internet listening to them. Bible is the Basis of true faith.
    Ug ang imung tubag/post diri DILI gikan sa Biliya(verse), if imung tubag diri imung kaugalingun Interpretation - counted ba na sa "not from someone you didn't know from the internet listening to them" nga imung gi ingun?

  9. #679

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    faith without work is dead...

  10. #680

    Default Re: Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

    @klayton

    gidumtan na siya sa uban nga naa sa power sa government brod maong gipangitaan nalang ug bisan unsa nga accusation. Just like Manny Pacquaio ba nga karon nagtinuod na sa iyang belief as a Christian, gipangitaan sad ug sayop about tax.


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