All about Roman Catholicism here.

[weedmeister2]

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@shoeless: good to know i have a brother in the herb here... hopefully we can sit down one of these days and toke up...

As for your question on whether it is a sin, i would say it is the same as with alcohol. As long as you do not get yourself intoxicated to the point of hurting yourself or others phisically, mentally or verbally, then i think you should be fine... anyhow, i find it easier to control my intoxication on weed as compared to alcohol... alcohol usually makes a person aggressive and loud, whereas weed makes one pacified and content.

It is in the bible:

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; that which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man." (Mat. 15:11)

Meaning it is not the food or wine or herbs that God has made that is bad. It is how humans abuse and distort these God given gifts... One can say that we must not defile God's temple which is our body, but then again, what about when we smoke cigarettes, or drink alcohol or coffee, or eat fatty foods for that matter...? Are we not defiling it then? Where do we draw the line? How about inhaling pollution?


It is also said:

God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth.…To you it will be for meat." … And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31)

And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. -- Ezekiel 34:29

"I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs. For afore harvest, when the bud is perfect and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks and take away and cut down the branches." (Isaiah 18:4-5)

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall … speak lies in hypocrisy … commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

And the earth brought forth grass and herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:12)

And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. (Ezekiel 34:29)




So question not your faith, my friend, for God gave us this herb, and who are we to outlaw a plant that God has made, seeing that it is so useful to mankind?


Hehehe, reminds me of a slogan i once came across:

GOD MADE WEED.

MAN MADE BOOZE.

WHO DO YOU TRUST? :mrgreen:

[mannyamador]

I know what your doctrine says, but the real question is, if you go to sto nino in downtown and ask your faithful if they worship mary... well, do you think they will say no? its one thing to say something, but its another to practice it.

Of course. But that happens in ALL religions and churches. Not all Catholics understand the faith, just as not all born again christians understand the Bible. Some Catholics think they can get special favors by special devotions, some christians practice "Bible-cutting" (random verse interpretation). I guess that means the different churches have to do a better job of educating their own.

if i did that, then forgive me. i did not do it consciously.

No problem bro!!!

have any of you smoked weed before?

I think the "scientific" arguments and the topic of weed are off-topic na. To bring it back to the topic, perhaps we could share what your churches teach about smoking marijuana and substance abuse in general.

[mannyamador]

Here's a quick answer to a question that is often asked. The answer is not meant to be exhaustive, but should give a general idea of the Catholic doctrine on the issue.

How can Catholics say that Christ does not die again on the altar when the Council of Trent states that he is immolated in the Mass?
http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock93.htm

Simple. "Immolate" does not mean "kill." It is a synonym for "sacrifice," a concept which does not require the sacrificial gift to be killed (Num. 8:11-21, Rom. 12:1).

According to its root-words, "to immolate" means to sprinkle with sacrificial grits or meal. In ancient times the sacrificial gift was sprinkled with this meal as part of the ritual. Eventually the word "immolate," which originally referred to only part of the ceremony, was extended to cover the whole act of sacrifice, and so it became detached from its original meaning of "to sprinkle with meal" and became a synonym for sacrifice.

Because sacrifices often involve killing, the term immolate can have this association, but that is not the way in which the Church is using it. This is obvious from the language Trent uses, that in the Mass "Christ is contained and immolated in an unbloody manner" (session 22, ch. 2) -- an unbloody manner being one that does not involve killing.

[bcasabee]

If it is in the Bible that taking those kind of herbs is good then it should be good..............but there is another common truth which which "may or may not written in the Bible" that humans has this abusive and destructive instinct................so now we got this human instituted, earthly and imperfect organization called the government(which had so many presidents, senators and congressmen) which issued a law "regulating" the use of this substance..........is it good or bad then? the Bible, the word of God, versus the earthly government? The answer is that those are complimentary truths or laws....one is divine inspired and the other one is earthly instituted.................Common knowledge will tell you that you have to ask prescription from a doctor first before taking some medication for not so common illnesses................how much more taking those substance prohibited by the earthly laws? So now I tell you........if you'r not a doctor.......please don't recommend these to others........if you claim that it has done good to you.....then I guess much much more lives were wasted because it was not taken according to a doctor prescribed normal doze........what might work for you might not work for others..............example....taking alaxan might work for my headache....but not necessarily for others......In the contrary....It might do more harm than good..........now tell me.......would you recommend these things to your young sweet daughters, your beautiful wives, your fathers and mothers, etc? Would it be nice to have a family pot session first before having a family prayer meeting so that all of the family can really feel God or having a pot session and a family prayer meeting at the same time? Same with religion.......if your not a Bible scholar, please dont' just quote Bible passages and present it to others and hopes that it will cure a man's thirst of spiritual knowledge............same with other fields........and again....if your not a doctor, please don't recommend marijuana, shabu and the likes as a vitamin to others................Please think about it...............

@shoeless: good to know i have a brother in the herb here... hopefully we can sit down one of these days and toke up...

As for your question on whether it is a sin, i would say it is the same as with alcohol. As long as you do not get yourself intoxicated to the point of hurting yourself or others phisically, mentally or verbally, then i think you should be fine... anyhow, i find it easier to control my intoxication on weed as compared to alcohol... alcohol usually makes a person aggressive and loud, whereas weed makes one pacified and content.

It is in the bible:

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; that which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man." (Mat. 15:11)

Meaning it is not the food or wine or herbs that God has made that is bad. It is how humans abuse and distort these God given gifts... One can say that we must not defile God's temple which is our body, but then again, what about when we smoke cigarettes, or drink alcohol or coffee, or eat fatty foods for that matter...? Are we not defiling it then? Where do we draw the line? How about inhaling pollution?


It is also said:

God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth.…To you it will be for meat." … And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31)

And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. -- Ezekiel 34:29

"I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs. For afore harvest, when the bud is perfect and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks and take away and cut down the branches." (Isaiah 18:4-5)

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall … speak lies in hypocrisy … commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

And the earth brought forth grass and herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:12)

And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. (Ezekiel 34:29)




So question not your faith, my friend, for God gave us this herb, and who are we to outlaw a plant that God has made, seeing that it is so useful to mankind?


Hehehe, reminds me of a slogan i once came across:

GOD MADE WEED.

MAN MADE BOOZE.

WHO DO YOU TRUST? :mrgreen:

[Gwynhuever]

...anything done in excess is always not good...i can not speak about weed in particular because i have no personal experience using them....but i know some people who are using them....and they are even some of the coolest people i know...this is legal in Netherlands and other places...and where they are legal ...regulated ang use and no problems arose from excessive use....if they can be legal in other places...they can not be that bad right? i guess it is the politics of specific places that prevent it from being legal everywhere....

anyway...what i am trying to say is that even food...when taken in excess is not good...masakit man ta....nya mahimo na nuon burden sa atong loved one...how about smoking? is that not the worst drug? pero ngano wala man daghan istorya about cigarettes? because they are legal....as long as some people make money ...it is ok for something to be legal....ironic...

ma OT man ta ani...i wonder why weed's topic about this was moved to mature discussion...maybe the moderators' do not want this to be discussed in public forums....anogon kay i have many questions about this myself pero wala man sad ko access sa mature discussion...

anyway going back to shoeless rebel's question....i think it becomes a sin when you become a sinner after using it ...e.g. induce you to rape, kill, etc etc...or even simple things like causing your parents' excessive worry etc....ako lang sad na bro....i could be wrong....but if it is helping you become a better person i don't think it can be that bad....

[bcasabee]

Of coure we do not need to know all of his knowledge, and even if we need to, we can't because its impossible for our brain to contain it................but are we the kind of people who are open to other ideas (we always claim that we do), but doesn't it contradict if we will trashed another idea which cannot be read "literally" in the Bible even though it presents practical purposes? Example, an idea that the Bible is just a guide............. and the power and the authority to give official interpretation of the guide, which is the Bible, belongs to priests and ultimately the Pope...........tell me........It was Martin Luther who conceives the idea bout the "Bible alone principle" right? Don't you ever question if Martin Luther was wrong because he is just human just like the other popes are? And I wonder which part of the Bible which says that you only have to rely on the Bible? Did Martin Luther did a mistake because the "Bible alone" principle cannot itself be seen in the Bible? Did the Catholic Church made a mistake by incorporating only four Gospels in the Bible? Did God handed down the list of books to the Catholic Church which should be included in the Bible? During the later stage when the Protestants made their own ripped off version of the Bible, how did they know that the Bible they've compile were correct, by who's authority gave them the seal of approval about the number of books the Protestant Bible should have? Did they commit the same mistake the Catholic Church made when deciding which book to compile? Did you ever asks these questions to yourself? Hehehehehe......

We are not the kind of people who are not curios right and who doesn't cease from exploring things so we can't help on keeping discovering things just like Galileo who discovered that the earth was not the center of the universe? Things could had been simple if man didn't made progress in science and technology.....All we have to do is accept that the sun revolves around the earth, the earth is flat and our first father and mother were Adam and Eve.........but situations change and we need people with outstanding academic and religious record to have a final say on whats really going on..........for the Catholics, we rely on the clergy, our Bible scholars and ultimately the Pope as having the official authority on interpreting the Bible.......for Greenhills Christian Fellowship, I am sure you rely on your pastors to call the shot on interpreting your own version of the Bible (if this is not the case for the GCF, then I guess every GCF members should have their own interpretations of their own Bible, then count a few years and a breakaway group will emerge coming from your church, and as usual, they'll be anti-catholics and again.....same kind of attacks will be hurled........again). And how do these people interpret the text? Simply combining truths coming from the Bible itself, from the wisdom they have discovered throughout their training, from the learning experiences in their missions, from the events that they have observe from their surroundings. So, inorder to arrive at an approximation of the whole truth, several views should be taken from different fields, and only the most elder or senior of our clergy is certainly has these qualities and thats our Pope, so to him, we give our utmost respect for his status...........

And for me, the Bible should not be taken lightly, which only simply shows us how to live our lives..........the Bible won't show us anything if you are not trained enough to understand it.........if you feel you are untrained or no time to undergo training.......just ask someone who is qualified and interpret it for you.......and in my case, I rely on our priests and ultimately our Pope?

@weed............As manny has pointed out..............substance abuse is bad............abusing....I think its short for abnormal use..........so its up to you to determine your limits.............and also you've choosen to based your ideas on what mis-informed Catholic faithfuls had told you and not official Church stand and I don't know why. And I would rather not debate on whether which Church practices are good or bad or which church is good or bad.........I understand.....its is really tiresome if you are on the offensive side especially if the enemies defenses are heavily fortified............hehehehe........

We are even worshipping different Gods.........while your god is not really that all knowing(fake god in short)......you can even squeeze all of his knowledge on a thousand page book you called the Bible..........mine is different..........his knowledge is beyond imagination.........no storage device can ever contain it................If you disagree with it, then you must also accept that the Bible is not only the source of truth.....and will certainly break your "Only believe on the Bible" principle...........I hope I had started an intelligent topic for you to think of.........waiting for your reply..........thanks......

bro, thanks for always looking at the sunny side, even when the going gets tough on this thread...

in answer to your 2nd paragraph, we do not squeeze all His knowledge in a book... we do not need to know all His knowledge. He has given us the bible in order to show us examples of how we are to live our simple lives... we do not need to know the recipe of the universe or see the future or create life...

Would you trust your doctor with your family's life during emergencies? He is also human and he does mistakes and worst, you might be asked to sign a waiver which states that whatever happens to your love ones during medical operations, the hospital or doctor will not be liable......wouldnt you? Or would just kneel infront of your dying love one and pray and ask the God to show up, do some magic himself and viola.....your love one is ok with no marks of medical operations whatsoever........You know, sometimes we people just have to trust each others special abilities......One is good in interpreting the Bible which surely are the Popes, Bible scholars, priests and religious monks because of their years of experience in the academy, their daily missionary lifes, etc........one cannot become a pope or the like without years of training.......just like one cannot be a doctor by just scanning and quoting medical white papers.......so if you have a problem to solve and don't know how to take care of it......go find an expert......division of labor of some sort..........God doesn't want us to be stupid to always rely on him............God also want us to think for ourselves as a group because that's exactly how he designed us.....to think for ourselves.........so don't narrow down your thinking with respect to the Bible........you might end up persecuting present and future Galileo's because of narrow mindedness........

On the other hand, the pope has a final say in all things relating to scripture, the church, and tradition. Don't you think it is worse that you are putting God in a man's mind that is ever changing and ever sinful? Plus you have to mix in the fact that popes change so often, and of course their minds and motives are never the same... Popes have even excommunicated popes... not to mention the schism... which pope was correct...?

It really depends on who handles it.......God has absulote power but he is still good right? Pope John Paul the II was the most powerful man on top of our Church? But was he corrupt? Anyway......imagine that your GCF(Greenhills Christian Fellowship) has this gigantic organizational structure and which its membership is widespread throughout the entire planet...........then the one on top of your organizational structure should be powerful right? Assuming that what you had said about power is absolutely correct, would you get out of your GCF because it has now a corrupt leader on top? Your answer might be the answer of a Catholic most anti-catholics always asked same question over and over again......Think also that even if your GCF is that small, your top ranking officials should be enjoying some form of power already.....are you saying that they are already corrupt? Power, big or small, corrupts....Agree?

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[mannyamador]

I don't think the Bible mentions marijuana. The word "herb" doers not necessarily refer to marijuana. It could mean a lot of other vegetation.

Marijuana plants occur naturally. But smoking it requires some processing. Grapes occur naturally too, but to create wine requires processing.

Some food for thought...

Jesus Himself made wine from water, but He never made or smoked weed.

[weedmeister2]

@bcasabee: Bro, YES, I WOULD RECOMMEND IT to my parents (i smoke weed with my father), my kids (when they are of age), my wife ( i smoke it with her. i have had some really good times with her when we were stoned...), my friends (i have let my friends try it, and some of them have opened their minds to this herb)...

Oh, and please, do not lump this herb with SHABU... do not even lump it with alcohol... alcohol gives you a hit by POISONING you... think that's funny? it's the truth. weed, on the other hand gives you a hit by attaching its tetra hydro cannabinol (THC) to certain receptors in your brain... receptors which scientists are now finding out, are really for cannabis intake... meaning your body has receptors MADE ESPECIALLY FOR WEED. This is probably due to the fact that man has been using it as food, smokes, oil, incense, tea, etc. for 5000 years already.

Please do not add more fuel to the PROPAGANDA that cannabis is bad. It is even better than coffee, cigarettes, alcohol, fatty foods... you say it hurts the lungs? take it as tea. I do when i have a flu...

I'm not claiming to be a doctor... i am telling you guys this based ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE. Take it with a grain of salt, because MILEAGE MAY VARY.


@manny: Cannabis requires NO PROCESSING, bro. You plant it, you dry it, you smoke it. I have my own plants, by the way. :mrgreen:

The bible in its present form does not mention marijuana, just as it does not mention vatican, pope, purgatory, etc...

seriously, and you have to research on this, but "calamus" and "sweet cane" in the bible were mis-translations of KANEH BOSM, or KINEBOISIN, aka CANNABIS... This is very likely, as most of you know, Cannabis was and is still in widespread use in middle east and asian countries, not only for smoking, but for tea, oils, food, etc...


THE ROOTS OF KANEH-BOSM
The first solid evidence of the Hebrew use of cannabis was established in 1936 by Sula Benet, a little known Polish etymologist from the Institute of Anthropological Sciences in Warsaw (1).

The word cannabis was generally thought to be of Scythian origin, but Benet showed that it has a much earlier origin in Semitic languages like Hebrew, and that it appears several times throughout the Old Testament. Benet explained that "in the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament there are references to hemp, both as incense, which was an integral part of religious celebration, and as an intoxicant (2)."

Benet demonstrated that the word for cannabis is kaneh-bosm, also rendered in traditional Hebrew as kaneh or kannabus. The root kan in this construction means "reed" or "hemp", while bosm means "aromatic". This word appears five times in the Old Testament; in the books of Exodus, the Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

The word kaneh-bosm has been mistranslated as calamus, a common marsh plant with little monetary value that does not have the qualities or value ascribed to kaneh-bosm. The error occurred in the oldest Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint in the third century BC, and was repeated in the many translations that followed (3).

http://www.cannabisculture.com/magaz...kanehbosm.html


Anyhow, believe what you must, i will stick to my beliefs about God and cannabis...


@Gwyn: if you weren't so far away, i would invite you and you hubby to a cannabis dinner, wherein i have some friends over and my wife makes a terrific herb-glazed rack of french lamb - great with some red cab sauv or a cabsauv-shiraz-merlot mix... and some herb-infused tea with cookies after... :mrgreen: all al fresco, of course...

Is so sad that man has totally shut out this plant that was so ingrained in his past civilizations... anyway, it's good that some people still see through all the propaganda and hate... here's an interesting site to begin exploring the wonders of cannabis cooking:

http://recipes.marijuana.com/

[Gwynhuever]

OT :@weed - hala ka no....thanks for the invitation or the plano of inviting us he he he....anyway if and when we will be in cebu...i really hope we can meet...even if just for coffee (omg ...kon madayon ang dinner basin mo hangyo si shoeless nga apil sad tawn siya ) ...you are one of the istoryans i would love to meet in person.

and by the way i love cab sauvignon/shiraz/merlot .... travelled to Europe a lot and "learned" to appreciate wine drinking :mrgreen:

[bcasabee]

O.T.

Ok........If you had read carefully........I didn't say that marijuana is bad..........I just wanna say that not all people has the spine to prevent itself from abusing it.....I even use words such as "regulation","prescription", etc to signify that I am not totally against the use of it...........if one can't help to try it..................he or she must consult someone knowledgeable about it such asÂ* you...........or a doctor perhaps so that he can be sure of what he is doing............there is no reason for it to be banned if only all the people know how to use it properly..............but making it legal just like an ordinary cigar will certainly give a lot of headache to the government..........just try to look around how many children on the streets are addicted to ordinary cigarette smoking everyday, imagine if all of them are already smoking marijuana.....certainly, it will introduced a lot of headache to the government.......not only that.....if those children won't be satisfied with marijuana anylonger........they will certainly upgrade to shabu...and that would be a lot of headache.....magsugod man jud ang bisyo sa ginagmay ug tilaw-tilaw dyutay.........and one more thing...in the Philippines, we got a lot of "walay lingaw nga mga tawo kay walay trabaho", imagine if their form of entertainment to make themselves busy are these things.....unsaon nalang..........I am thinking not of the individual consequences on this but on the community as a whole.......I hope you understand what I am trying to say........just an opinion btw.........and sorry about lumping shabu and marijuana, I deliberately did that because they were considered as prohibited substances...............and btw.....religion or our churches shouldn't be dragged on this issue.......this is actually more of a social issue than a religious one........the government should be the ones answerable to this things............

@bcasabee: Bro, YES, I WOULD RECOMMEND IT to my parents (i smoke weed with my father), my kids (when they are of age), my wife ( i smoke it with her. i have had some really good times with her when we were stoned...), my friends (i have let my friends try it, and some of them have opened their minds to this herb)...

Oh, and please, do not lump this herb with SHABU... do not even lump it with alcohol... alcohol gives you a hit by POISONING you... think that's funny? it's the truth. weed, on the other hand gives you a hit by attaching its tetra hydro cannabinol (THC) to certain receptors in your brain... receptors which scientists are now finding out, are really for cannabis intake... meaning your body has receptors MADE ESPECIALLY FOR WEED. This is probably due to the fact that man has been using it as food, smokes, oil, incense, tea, etc. for 5000 years already.

Please do not add more fuel to the PROPAGANDA that cannabis is bad. It is even better than coffee, cigarettes, alcohol, fatty foods... you say it hurts the lungs? take it as tea. I do when i have a flu...

I'm not claiming to be a doctor... i am telling you guys this based ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE. Take it with a grain of salt, because MILEAGE MAY VARY.


@manny: Cannabis requires NO PROCESSING, bro. You plant it, you dry it, you smoke it. I have my own plants, by the way. :mrgreen:

The bible in its present form does not mention marijuana, just as it does not mention vatican, pope, purgatory, etc...

seriously, and you have to research on this, but "calamus" and "sweet cane" in the bible were mis-translations of KANEH BOSM, or KINEBOISIN, aka CANNABIS... This is very likely, as most of you know, Cannabis was and is still in widespread use in middle east and asian countries, not only for smoking, but for tea, oils, food, etc...


THE ROOTS OF KANEH-BOSM
The first solid evidence of the Hebrew use of cannabis was established in 1936 by Sula Benet, a little known Polish etymologist from the Institute of Anthropological Sciences in Warsaw (1).

The word cannabis was generally thought to be of Scythian origin, but Benet showed that it has a much earlier origin in Semitic languages like Hebrew, and that it appears several times throughout the Old Testament. Benet explained that "in the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament there are references to hemp, both as incense, which was an integral part of religious celebration, and as an intoxicant (2)."

Benet demonstrated that the word for cannabis is kaneh-bosm, also rendered in traditional Hebrew as kaneh or kannabus. The root kan in this construction means "reed" or "hemp", while bosm means "aromatic". This word appears five times in the Old Testament; in the books of Exodus, the Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

The word kaneh-bosm has been mistranslated as calamus, a common marsh plant with little monetary value that does not have the qualities or value ascribed to kaneh-bosm. The error occurred in the oldest Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint in the third century BC, and was repeated in the many translations that followed (3).

http://www.cannabisculture.com/magaz...kanehbosm.html


Anyhow, believe what you must, i will stick to my beliefs about God and cannabis...


@Gwyn: if you weren't so far away, i would invite you and you hubby to a cannabis dinner, wherein i have some friends over and my wife makes a terrific herb-glazed rack of french lamb - great with some red cab sauv or a cabsauv-shiraz-merlot mix... and some herb-infused tea with cookies after... :mrgreen: all al fresco, of course...

Is so sad that man has totally shut out this plant that was so ingrained in his past civilizations... anyway, it's good that some people still see through all the propaganda and hate... here's an interesting site to begin exploring the wonders of cannabis cooking:

http://recipes.marijuana.com/