Why did God create evil?

[gareb]

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Problem with us, is we're trying to seek on some operational definition of God, where in fact there's some things in this world that don't have it also, but still believe to be as it is...

operational definitions are used as a point of agreement in an argument such as this so as we can have a point of reference in case things veer towards another direction. operational definitions are platforms wherein the argument is played. it does not attempt to become absolute. two people talking about a 'cat' must first agree to a definition of what a 'cat' is to make the conversation flow smoothly.

God gave us the FREEWILL to decide on which path to seek and what things to believe in...

:arrow: would a 'good god' allow his creation to fall into evil? no.
:arrow: with the power that he has (omnipotence) he should try his earnest to prevent his people to fall into evil, or to annihilate evil.
:arrow: he does not.
it is either,
:arrow: he is the source of evil, or
:arrow: he does not have any power over it.

with regards to freewill, which is to chose between good and evil.
:arrow: god knows beforehand that man is doomed to fail
:arrow: he allows it (by giving the supposed 'freewil')
it is then, either
:arrow: he does not love his people (because he allow us to fall), or
:arrow: he does not know the future, or
:arrow: he does not have power over evil.

it could be true that God indeed may have the power to determine/control what would happen in the future

... and being the 'good god', he is supposed to spare us from that evil.
but he obviously did not. he wants to affirm our faith through the test of evil, which he knew beforehand, would cause countless people to fall.

what is it then with humanity's belief? how does it affect the divinity? or perhaps it is a soothing egotistic balm... perhaps god only exists because we want it to... of course, with faith.

god granting us freewill and the problem of evil sounds to me like a 3-year old child, seeing an anthill swarming (of course!) with ants, got each and every ant that was there and placed them in a large basin full of water. upon doing so the child sticks his hand on the basin and tells the ants... 'climb into my hand or drown'. here is your freewill, gentlemen. and so much of it.

[**julliene**]

you guys really debated for this topic very well... /me speechless...evil is just a spice of good....the word good will not exist if the word bad is not around...you don't even know if they will be derived if there is no comparison between them...im not that theologically inclined but basic point of view rani akoa... keep the debate flowing..this is nice...i sort of knowing who you people are...thanks!

[giver_bert]

God gave us the FREEWILL to decide on which path to seek and what things to believe in...

:arrow: would a 'good god' allow his creation to fall into evil? no.

You can never question God's ways my friend. For He works in mysterious manner... sometimes it takes something that's undesirable to happen for something more of goodness to happen eventually..

:arrow: with the power that he has (omnipotence) he should try his earnest to prevent his people to fall into evil, or to annihilate evil.
:arrow: he does not.
it is either,
:arrow: he is the source of evil, or
:arrow: he does not have any power over it.

hey bro, we are created based on God's image and likeness and with that there's is that goodness that is inherent in our nature.. I believe God by all means can effortlessly prevent such things from happening.. but don't you ever think that He is just giving the credit that is due to us?? we're given the intellect to determine what's good and what's not-buffered by freewill, and definitely we have all the means (if we would only be assertive then) at avoiding to commit sin/evil.. it's a person's call should he decide to resist evil, otherwise plunge into it.. hence no one has the right at blaming Him...

with regards to freewill, which is to chose between good and evil.
:arrow: god knows beforehand that man is doomed to fail
:arrow: he allows it (by giving the supposed 'freewil')
it is then, either
:arrow: he does not love his people (because he allow us to fall), or
:arrow: he does not know the future, or
:arrow: he does not have power over evil.

As humans, we don't want to believe a problem is ours. We are always hunting someone on whom to place the blame.... never could it be our fault! it's the same way in our spiritual life.. we want to believe all the problems are caused by others... surely, in "our upright condition", we could never be the cause. But, are we really looking at the situation with a clear head? Have we gone to the Lord and asked for the answer? Do we ever ask God to change us, if we are the problem, or do we continue to go along in our on ways, not realizing we are the problem?

it's soooooo easy to blame everything on someone else and never repent for our failures. It's not shameful to confess that perhaps we are the problem, and ask God to come on the scene... He is more than happy to help us change our ways, our attitude, and our behavior, so we can become a more effective witness for Him.

[YbriP]

para motagam nang mga abusado..

bati kaayo magsige nalang ta ug paander sa mga taw nga hambugero...
sama ni aron oh..huwat lang ni silang mga hambugero ug wa nakoi pasensya kai para makabuhat ko ug dili maayo!!!

[gareb]

You can never question God's ways my friend. For He works in mysterious manner...

oh but we can. we actually are asking, and have been asking about how he works, about his nature, about his supposed origin... all this time. religion is an attempt to answer how god behaves; an attempt to justify nature as a product of god, and his supposed supremacy over everything. it is the very dogmatic foundation of the various religions in the world that certain basic questions about god and his nature BE ANSWERED. this, my friend, lends credibility to religion; an answer to the questions and not suppression by saying that 'we are not supposed to question' his will.

let us not use the 'god works in mysterious ways' reason to justify our inability to answer basic questions regarding the nature of god. if one claims to understand and accept god, then it would be easy to answer such basic questions as the argument presented above, and not offer the 'unreachability' of god as an excuse.

but if we always continue to define god as something that is unreachable, then how indeed can we hope to comprehend it? how indeed can we know for sure that our so-called interpretations that our religion offers, are not wrong after all? this only shows that the 'unreachability excuse' is a poison pill that we ingest to inhibit ourselves from probing further on the truth of divinity's existence and, in this case, the problem of evil, or a justification of how limited our insights are on the matter.

sometimes it takes something that's undesirable to happen for something more of goodness to happen eventually..

a part of humanity going to hell, is not exactly the general concept of 'more goodness', if indeed evil could have been prevented by an all-powerful god at the first place.

He is just giving the credit that is due to us...

as if the whole human population asked to be created.as if the whole human population asked for freewill. and now this is what we get, evil. that is if indeed god has power over evil.

we're given the intellect to determine what's good and what's not-

your concept of what is good, may not be another's concept of what is. bear in mind that the concept of what is good or bad or evil is relative to the person speaking. a simple cross-cultural comparison would reveal this. the theory then that intellect is the articulator of what is good and what is not, breaks down.

and definitely we have all the means (if we would only be assertive then) at avoiding to commit sin/evil.. it's a person's call should he decide to resist evil, otherwise plunge into it.. hence no one has the right at blaming Him...

this is a non-issue. refer to the analogy between the ants and the child. you limit your perspective within the scenario of the ants choosing whether to climb to the child's hand or not, and include the scenario that the ants were actually plucked out from the cozy anthill and placed in the basin of water, by no less than the child. blame practically rests on the child who, to validate and strengthen the idea of 'freewill' created the very conditions that make it so very central and essential in the idea of the 'freedom to chose'.

such would not have arisen if we were not placed in this most precarious of situations. such idea of freewill would not have arisen if only evil was not allowed. but it was.

As humans, we don't want to believe a problem is ours. We are always hunting someone on whom to place the blame.... never could it be our fault! it's the same way in our spiritual life..

but the problem is beyond us. the existence of evil is a fact that human nature cannot change. and it was forseen by somebody who could have done something about it BUT DID NOT.

we are not prescient, nor are we omnipotent beings that could completely annihilate the concept of evil. the higher responsibility then rests on those who allegedly know beforehand (but did not prevent it), and allegedly had the power (but did not use it). this OR there is simply wrong with our concept of a god.

it all boils down basically to the question: which is better, a world of pure good devoid of evil and the concept of evil, or a world with both good and evil mixed together?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

remember the analogy of the child and the ants. remember the parable of the potter who destroys his imperfect creation... this, my friend, is not love.

[tolstoi]

@Undercover_lover: im inculcating here about the absence of GOD within *ourselves* and im not saying that if we do evil and GOD is not watching/care for us anymore. For GOD is ever forgiving on whatever wicked ways we have done, as long as we turn to HIM for forgivenes..

(2 Chronicles 7:13-14 NKJV) "When I shut up heaven and there is no rain, or command the locusts to devour the land, or send pestilence among My people, {14} "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

[gareb]

careful with semantics and figures of speech. often times they are the cause of rather bitter contentions. it is best, i suggest, that we stick to stripping coquetries with rather touchy subjects as this.

[tolstoi]

Gareb wrote: But the problem is beyond us. the existence of evil is a fact that human nature cannot change. and it was forseen by somebody who could have done something about it BUT DID NOT.

Evilness/wickedness in man is simply rooted on his *upbringing* into this world either thru his family orientation or just being influenced by the society around him. I remember my psychology prof in college once said that the brain of a newly born baby is like a slab of stone, and the individuality of that baby in the future will depend on what is written into it. Same analogy when it comes to evilness in man, and lets take for example Osama Bin Laden..whose evil doings were greatly influenced by the idiology of those Islamic radicals around him..but what if we'll go back in time when he was born and transport him to another culture..lets say the Eskimos in the north pole..do u think we still have Bin Laden that we have known now..i think his individuality will be influence with that of the eskimos eating blabber on there igloos..and hopefully we can still see the magnificent twin towers today...

what im trying to instill here is that we should not blame GOD if evil existed in this world..good and evil in the society simply rooted on the human's upbringing and influences around him...

Remember that GOD once redeemed us from evil and thats because of HIS great love for us..

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[gareb]

tolstoi:

i am all too aware of the effects of child nurturing and enculturation. what i am asking about is where did the concept of evil came from and consequently applied 'evil'?

Remember that GOD once redeemed us from evil and thats because of HIS great love for us..

... which should have NOT been the case if evil was NOT ALLOWED in the first place. in this scenario MORE PEOPLE are saved. imagine how many souls from hell would not have ended where they supposedly are now. or how many people would have not died as a result of some great evil.

[The Dreamer]

Actually, God didn't created Evil...