All about Roman Catholicism here.

[h00ters]

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All Catholic Traditions are based on the truth that Jesus gave to the Apostles. There isn't a single Catholic dogma that goes against what Jesus taught. Again, please see the earlier posts in this thread for more information.

bro...on this i disagree...there are many catholic dogmas which go against Christ's wisdom...but knowing you...you will not even listen to my arguments and maybe accept that they could be right...so I rest my case....

no he won't, because he is a bigot.

[Carlo Borromeo]

Remember, at the time the Rosary was created, music was not readily available. There were no recordings and performers were expensive to hire. Not everyone could play music either. So chants were used as background music during contmeplation and mental prayer.

From a practial perspective, the Hail Mary is easier to say. The prayers in the Rosary are like the chants in the Jewish temple and those of the early Christians. They are like "background music", which are used to help one contemplate the Mysteries. You aren;'t supposed to pray each one, meaning each and every word at the very moment it is said. That's silly and very difficult! The Hail Marys are like chants, like background music.

See also:

The Rosary
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp

:mrgreen:

[Desert Father]

i registered in this forum to ask u guys and i hope this questions and some points will enlighten ur mind. after this u will not hear from me, i will not argue and/or debate about religion with you nor make copy and paste.. because i believe that RELIGION CANNOT SAVE OUR SOUL BUT ONLY GOD. salvation is a gift from God, as what was written in the scripture MANY HAVE CAME BUT ONLY FEW HAVE CHOSEN. He is the ONLY KING, who died on the cross for us to SAVE US FROM OUR SIN (our sin and not HIS SIN).

Q1. Why do Roman Catholics address the Priest as Father; and most of them go and pray to the saints and to Mary? Why do you confess your sins to the priest? Didn't the Lord commands in the 10 Commandments, THOU SHALL NOT HAVE OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. Didn't Jesus Christ said in the Bible that, I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO ONE GOES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME?

"Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ. He who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted" (Matthew 23:9-12).

This passage is often quoted in opposition to the practice of calling priests father. However, Jesus is dealing with a much different issue. He is pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law. In verses 6 and 7 which immediately precede the rejection of the titles of honor, Jesus explains in what sense His rejection is meant: "And they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the Synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi." Here Jesus is commenting on their superiority complexes. They have effectively set God aside and put themselves in His place; thus the comments on being humbled and being exalted (see also verses 12-36).

Many times in the Gospels Jesus refers to our earthly fathers as well as our Heavenly Father. If the command to call no one on earth father were in the strict literal sense, He would not have done so. See Matthew 10:37, 15:4, 19:5, 19:19 and 19:29; also Luke 12:53 and 14:26. Similarly, we would not be commanded to "Honor your father and mother" (Exodus 20:12).

Jesus didn't object to titles, but to the way they were used. Paul calls himself the father of the Corinthians. "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel" (1 Corinthians 4:14-15).

Father Mitch Pacwa points out that "There are 144 occasions in the New Testament when the title of father is used for someone other than God. It is applied to the patriarchs of Israel, the fathers of families, to Jewish leaders and to Christian leaders" (Call no Man Father, This Rock January 1991).

Bible Christians call their ministers "Pastor." Pastor means shepherd. In John 10:14-16 Jesus says, "I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd." If we reason that we cannot call a priest Father because we "have one Father who is in heaven," then can we not also reason that we cannot call a minister Pastor because there is only "one Shepherd?"

Isolating and grabbing hold of one scripture verse is risky. It can be misleading or even dangerous. Even an honest and well-intentioned Christian can subconsciously bend a verse to suit his or her own needs. It is vitally important to understand the Bible as God intended. St. Augustine once said, "Not what one scripture says, but what all of Scripture says." We can take it a step further and say, not what Scripture says but what Scripture means."

Q2. Why you call Mary "Virgin Mary"?and also why you address Mary as "Holy Mother"? Didn't you know that Mary had children after Jesus Christ and the father of these children is Joseph? So, if a lady gave birth again, is she still considered as VIRGIN? Jesus Christ addressed Mary before He was crucified as "WOMAN" not Mother.

There are some who contend that Mary had children other than Jesus.

Matthew 1:24-25, which reads, "When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home. He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus."

Matthew 13:55-56: "Is He not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother named Mary, and His brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Are not His sisters all with us?"

Could Matthew be referring to Jesus' cousins? Although both Greek and English have a word for cousin, Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus, does not. Hence the words brothers and sisters are used. These terms can also be used to refer to friends. Observe how Jesus himself uses the word "brothers" in Matthew 28:10 and see what happens in verse 16: "Then Jesus said to them, 'Do not be afraid. Go tell my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me'...The eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had ordered them." Were the disciples His siblings? Of course not!

A comparison of the three gospel accounts of the women at the foot of the cross demonstrates that James and Joseph, two of the named brothers, are the sons of Mary and Cleophas (Matthew 27:56, Mark 15:40, and John 19:25). This Mary is obviously not the mother of Jesus, as she is mentioned in addition to her. Another obvious reason is the fact that Jesus' mother was married to a man named Joseph, not Cleophas.

In Mark 6:3 Jesus is called "THE" son of Mary not "A" son of Mary. Elsewhere, Mary is called the mother of Jesus, but never the mother of anybody else. Even Protestant reformers such as Martin Luther, John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli taught that Mary remained a virgin. They believed that it was the clear teaching of Scripture.

In Luke 1:30-35, we find the following: "Then the angel said to her, 'Behold you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son, and you shall name Him Jesus.'… But Mary said to the angel, 'How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?' And the angel said to her in reply, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.'" Mary's statement would make no sense at all unless she intended to remain a virgin.

Q3. When you have communion, why is it that it's only the Priest WHO can drink the wine and not the churchgoers also? Didn't the Lord said in His last supper, "THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD; DO THIS AS OFTEN AS YOU DRINK IT, IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME".

I believe that the reason for this is not doctrinal but practical. YOu cannot just let anyone drink the wine because it is quite expensive.

God bless you too.

[weedmeister2]

All Catholic Traditions are based on the truth that Jesus gave to the Apostles. There isn't a single Catholic dogma that goes against what Jesus taught. Again, please see the earlier posts in this thread for more information.

bro...on this i disagree...there are many catholic dogmas which go against Christ's wisdom...but knowing you...you will not even listen to my arguments and maybe accept that they could be right...so I rest my case....

@Gwyn: Dream on sister... I have a hunch that Manny is a Jesuit.

[at8n1981]

eng eng eng....ngiga jud aning bay mosimos oi! mura man ka ug santo manulti bay! c jesus ka! joke! answeri pud to uban questions oi!


popcorn mo diha!

[weedmeister2]

Remember, at the time the Rosary was created, music was not readily available. There were no recordings and performers were expensive to hire. Not everyone could play music either. So chants were used as background music during contmeplation and mental prayer.

From a practial perspective, the Hail Mary is easier to say. The prayers in the Rosary are like the chants in the Jewish temple and those of the early Christians. They are like "background music", which are used to help one contemplate the Mysteries. You aren;'t supposed to pray each one, meaning each and every word at the very moment it is said. That's silly and very difficult! The Hail Marys are like chants, like background music.

WAHAHAHA! this is one of the funniest justifications i have ever heard... no personal offense, manny... i know you're a great musician and all, but "the hail mary is easier than the our father to chant"? whahahahaha!!! How bout rap? which would be easier? rock? metal? death metal? punk? emo? jazz? hmmm, i bet the our father would be better for chillout, what do you say?

ahem... i mean, seriously... i have heard some pretty good our father chants, who's to say that it can't be better background music than the hail mary?

yah. yah, i know, says your catholic books and websites...

right.

[mannyamador]

you think you have proven your case.... if that is the case...why are there so many still arguing over your points?

Some people don't think. But the point is I DO give evidence and rational arguments. Some people DON'T.

anyway i do not need to prove my "claims" ...you look around you and it is very obvious...it is all over you...the contradictions of Catholic dogmas with Christ's intention

Well, that's just a claim, You have to prove it. So far you haven't. I look around just as well as you do, and I see no contradictions. And I can refute any that you care to provide.

1 - celibacy of priets -- why? why are they forbidden from love and companionship? because of centuries old doctrines?

Did you know that priestly celibacy is NOT a doctrine of the Catholic Church?

Celibacy is praticed by the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. There are other Rites in the Catholic Church, and they allow marriaed priests. So the Catholic Church DOES HAVE MARRIED PRIESTS. But because of the responsibilities of rasing a family, the priestly activity of married priests is necessarily hampered or limited. The Latin Rite, however, is the largest Catholic Rite and most active in missionary activity. Therefore, celibacy is practiced as a PRACTICAL discipline.

Raising a family is a full-time job on its own. Requiring a priest to divide his time and energy between his family and his flock is probably asking way too much. And can you imagine sending a priest's family into dangerous missionary territory? That would be risking the lives of innocent persons. And if you didn't send them, you would separate the family for long periods. Not a good thing either.

The early Catholic Church had a married priesthood. But even the Apostle Paul realized that this wasn't the most practical idea. Paul remained celibate. He even encouraged celibacy. In the early Church, if a man was single and becamea priest and bishop, it was expected (though not required) that he be celibate. Eventually, the Church realized that for the priesthood to be effective, celibacy should be the general rule. But even today there are numerous exceptions. There are many married priests in the other Catholic Rites, But these are mostly in Europe. That's why you don't hear about them here. The Philippines priests are part of the Latin Rite. And tou mostly see an unmarried priesthood because these priests are generally the most effective (despite the fact that all priests are sinners).

2 - marriage - - - why only between man and woman?

Why should we change a God-given institution just to cater to the sexual preferences of some persons? Marriage is between a man and a woman because they naturally produce children in families. This is not a mere choice. It is a biological fact that cannot be practically altered. Other unions cannot produce children. Heterosexual marriage is not just a sexual preference. It is an externally imposed biological reality.

Now, if we cater to the sexual preferences of homosexuals, then we will have to do the same for all other sexual deviants. This includes pedophiles, necrophiliacs (those who prefer *** with dead persons), those who practice bestiality (*** wirth animals), those who practrice incest (*** with family members), and all other sorts of dangerous and perverted sexual deviations. That is what happens when you "modify" marriage to cater to sexual preference. It is extermely unhealthy and dangerous to society.

3 - why only men can become priests?

Jesus only called men to the priestly service. The Apostles only called men to the priestly service. This was so even though there were women at that time who were saintly and willing to serve. These are histirical facts. So why didn't Jesus or the Apostles call women to the priesthood? You have your answer.

This question was faced squarely by the Church many times. But the Church did not feel it had enough basis to change the priesthood. If it did, then it could have. But there simply was no theological basis for doing so. The Church is NOT supposed to create new doctrines. It is supposed to preserve and transmit the the Deposit of Faith.
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So as it stands, you have not been able to prove that there is any Catholic doctrine that goes against Christ's teaching. In fact, it's the other way around. Marriage and the priesthood were changed the way you want them, they would go AGAINST Christ's teachings.

These are rational arguments I have given you. Now, simply because you feel you do not agree with them does not mean you have been able to prove your point. You have to back up your claims with evidence and ratioal arguments. Merely stating what you want is not enough to make a rational argument.

[mannyamador]

but "the hail mary is easier than the our father to chant"?

Have you tried it? The Hail Mary is shorter and easier to chant.

i have heard some pretty good our father chants, who's to say that it can't be better background music than the hail mary?

They CAN be. In fact, there are many other chants primarily using the Lord's Prayer. But the Rosary just isn't one of them. The Rosary isn't a Catholic doctrine, by the way. It's just a popular devotion, like many others. It's not a required devotion either.

And if you read the article I posted, you will see that the Rosary has a Marian theme. It helps a person see Christ from Mary's perspective. And Mary was one Christian who loved Jesus more than anyone else since she was His mother.

[Gwynhuever]

@mannyamador....we will never reach an agreement because we are not even discussing the same thing....you are defending your belief in the LETTER of the law...while I on the other hand am talking about the SPIRIT of the law....

[at8n1981]

@mannyamador....we will never reach an agreement because we are not even discussing the same thing....you are defending your belief in the LETTER of the law...while I on the other hand am talking about the SPIRIT of the law....

pagbagay nalng mo oi! joke!

oh popcorn mo mga tsong....argghhh luod naman ning popcorn oi! suggest mo laing beh! taco's?!