Pacquiao pushes P125 wage hike

[robertski3]

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daghana mag retrench ani.. Daghan au negosyante di pabor ani

[burikoy12]

Kun ang akong ganansiya unta igo rang isweldo sa akong employees, maayo pa'y manira.

[Saga]

PEDRO: Juan wa man kay kwarta nya ako naa man. Mag negosyo ta ug ikaw ang mo trabaho kay ako man ang puhunan. Nia 20 pesos ipalit na ug sundang ug kawayan nya pagbuhat ug bbq stick tapos ibaligya daun sa merkadao.

JUAN: Cge2x..

THE NEXT DAY...

JUAN: Pedro, nahalin na tanan bbq stick. ni kita ta ug 100 pesos.

PEDRO: Maau.. atong kuhaan ug 20 pesos para asa akong puhunan. Kining 80 pesos atong bahinon. Tungod kay ako man ang puhunan nia 10 pesos para nimo ug akoa ang 70 pesos.

no worker = no business
no business = everybody hungry

however, worker will die first because whatever money they have is only good for the day but rich businessmen can survive a lot longer. so, businessmen use this opportunity to exploit the immediate needs of the workers. put a business and give workers enough money to survive for a day so that tomorrow they will come back and work again.

we have to admit that without the labor force there will be no business or whatsoever. in this difficult times it is unjust that workers will be the only one to bear the burden of this trying times. businessmen should also carry some weight.

well.... we are greedy.. admit it

[monroy]

So it should be across the board then.

How about percentages? Like for example, 5% increase for those small time businesses.

My point is, all should get something bahala na ug dili pantay basta naa lang jud madawat ang tanan.

Many businesses can't afford even a 5% increase because of the kind of industry they are in and some of these are big businesses, some are small. The size of the business has no bearing on the profitability of the industry it is in overall. There have been many very large firms in Cebu that have closed during the past 4 years due to the recession in the States combined with the incessant wage hikes.

"All should get something" mind set is a symptom of our crab mentality. If others are getting a raise, I also have to get a raise even if I lose my job. What's the point of a raise if you don't have a job?

This is the problem with most employees they always think businesses make so much money that they can afford whatever increase they demand. Workers can easily get a 10% increase in their wages by bullying the government, but export businesses can't even get our buyers to pay 5% more for products that they can already get at 1/2 price in China. We live in a global world and these workers are thinking at village-mentality level... nobody is going to be charitable and give employment to people who are too expensive.

Well, you two are a bunch of optimists.

I don't think anybody would allow that to happen.

Our government does allow these things to happen. That's why there are so many drug lords and robbers roaming around...

[lestat1116]

employed wants increase, unemployed wants job. those unemployed does not care about increase. minimize ang work force sa company job out tanan with lower than minimum ang salary. walay makuha ang BIR and SSS ani.

[Sand Man]

no worker = no business
no business = everybody hungry

however, worker will die first because whatever money they have is only good for the day but rich businessmen can survive a lot longer. so, businessmen use this opportunity to exploit the immediate needs of the workers. put a business and give workers enough money to survive for a day so that tomorrow they will come back and work again.

we have to admit that without the labor force there will be no business or whatsoever. in this difficult times it is unjust that workers will be the only one to bear the burden of this trying times. businessmen should also carry some weight.

well.... we are greedy.. admit it

Yep. This was largely what I was getting at. To share the burden would also mean the businessmen agreeing to a compromise.

Many businesses can't afford even a 5% increase because of the kind of industry they are in and some of these are big businesses, some are small. The size of the business has no bearing on the profitability of the industry it is in overall. There have been many very large firms in Cebu that have closed during the past 4 years due to the recession in the States combined with the incessant wage hikes.

"All should get something" mind set is a symptom of our crab mentality. If others are getting a raise, I also have to get a raise even if I lose my job. What's the point of a raise if you don't have a job?

Well, you can call it "crab mentality" when, for example I, earn 40K month and then I hear the Gov't is increasing the salaries of minimum-wage earners so I go to my boss and say "Hey, boss, I should get a damn raise, too!". THAT is crab mentality.

My example is not exact and I am talking on loose terms here. Let's focus on the minimum wage earners... OK so the business can't afford a 5% wage increase. So how much can it afford without tipping over? The mindset is, if I am the worker and usually my daily wage can only buy me (for example) a kilo of rice and 4 cans of sardines, then with the wage increase, at least I can now buy a kilo of rice and 4 cans of sardines, plus, I dunno -- half kilo fish? or 1/4 kilo ginaling? or a new ukay-ukay shirts for my kids? new pair of tsinelas maybe? These aren't expensive things pero they mean a lot.

I think my point is that it can be done if business owners are willing to, pero they are also afraid that others will not do the same. So mahug na kadtong nihatag ug increase na nakuhaan ang ilang ginansya medyo maapiki na sad kay ang ilang suppliers wa sad mipaubos sa ilang presyo. So for this to work, dapat mo-compromise ang tanan all the way up the supply chain.

Again, I am no expert and a lot of what I type here my not seem correct to those who really know how all this works, so at least try to see nalang where I am getting at. It has to be a collective effort by everyone.

nobody is going to be charitable

There lies the problem.

I've heard our top execs say the same thing during our quarterly meetings: "This isn't charity. We are trying to run a business!"

Sure we are.

[monroy]

SandMan, I don't see where the problem is. If you want to be charitable, set up a charity. If you want to make money, set up a business.

Businesses aren't just going to pay more to workers because they want to be nice. They push these wage increases through and more exporting companies are going to move to Vietnam, Indonesia and other lower cost economies.

The statement "without workers there will be no business" is misinformed. There are always workers somewhere willing to work for less, if not here, then in countries like the ones I mentioned. I know that in my industry, lots of factories have relocated to Vietnam already because they can create the same quality at 30% less our cost. My question to you is, if these people lose their jobs who is going to provide them with a livelihood?

Businesses may not be charitable but they serve a useful purpose and keep this country working. The idea that businesses are exploitative holds no water for me. The people who say that have no idea how to run a business and if they do, they should set one up. Tanawon nato unsa ka maayong laki nila...

[mark366]

OI, bsan akoy kompanya ani di q mosugot oi....kadako sad ana oi,,suntok sa buwan man....PACMAN JUD

[churva]

If this will be push through, It will have a domino effect. Many companies will lay off workers, mu mahal ang mga pagkaon, Businesses will close which means unemployment rate will soar.

korek. sus, mamalhin nya ang uban companies sa china or other countries nga cheap lang ang labor. If ma push through sad ni cya, kutob ra nis papel. Many companies will not follow and still workers will still not receive the wage that they will be expecting.

[Sand Man]

The statement "without workers there will be no business" is misinformed. There are always workers somewhere willing to work for less, if not here, then in countries like the ones I mentioned. I know that in my industry, lots of factories have relocated to Vietnam already because they can create the same quality at 30% less our cost.

OK, so I take it you are involved the exporting industry. Though I read somewhere that "Vietnam, in 2011, is expected to lead the minimum wage increase among the neighboring countries at an 11.5% rise. (approximately 7% for Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand and 5.8% for Malaysia.)", I will assume you know more than any of us here about the latest trends and news in that area kay hands-on man ka dihang dapita.

So where does all this leave us? Is there no hope for those workers who work in this industry na maluag-luagan gamay in the face of all this price increases?

Businesses may not be charitable but they serve a useful purpose and keep this country working. The idea that businesses are exploitative holds no water for me. The people who say that have no idea how to run a business and if they do, they should set one up. Tanawon nato unsa ka maayong laki nila...

We can replace "exploitative" with a more gentler word, but the fact remains that businesses move here so they can have more work for less. Even in your example where if we demand higher wages they move out of the country to find cheaper labor -- to me, that in itself is a form of maintaining a profit. Is the profit huge? I don't know. I am not familiar with how exporting businesses work.

I do however know of someone who exports these "abubots" (bracelets and necklaces made of certain shiny dark-colored nuts about the size of a calamansi). She employs 3 teenagers. These boys collects the nuts in sacks, shines each one using a machine, pokes holes in them, then make them into bracelets and necklaces using nylons strings.

Expenses for her include sweldo sa mga teenagers, operating costs sa iyang lugar (kuryente, etc.), abang sa freight containers, and shipping (and other things) is around 100K daw. Pero her limpyo na ginansya is 300K daw (pero they do not deliver the goods monthly). Makita man sad nimo kay she has 2 SUVs and a car. She pays her workers the minimum wage nya mohatag sad siya ug increase. Mao lagi way mga Pag-Ibig, HMO, ug SSS mga bataa. Dunno if this is the kind of exporting business you are involved in but I guess this is an example that is a "small business".

Let me just clarify that I am not trying to argue your points. I am just trying to see why it is so hard to arrive at a win-win situation that benefits everyone.