Forget Jesus, Judas went to hell for you.

[LightBearer]

---

you quote me...

the point is Jesus' death story in the bible make no sense. God can forgive us with or without the cross.

this is then your response...

He can, yes. But God is holy and we are not because of sin. There is to be a sacrificial lamb that is perfect and without blemish in payment for sins. Jesus, the lamb of God (without blemish, without sin) is the only sacrifice enough to satisfy the requirement (and forgiveness of all our sins) of the Holy God. Jesus' (His son's) death is the payment for our sins. And so, through God's son Jesus, we are saved when we accept Jesus.

God's holiness can be understood when you understand what the big picture is in the Holy Bible. Get to know God, through God's word, the Bible.

Makes perfect sense to me.

you can check it, refer to post#36

[karwren]

you quote me...



this is then your response...



you can check it, refer to post#36

Okay, checked it.=)

[LightBearer]

--- New Living Translation (©2007)
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard.
Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.
romans 3:23-24
notice: its present tense. Its stating our sins...not adam sin... i hope this clears out brad...

lahi naman pod ni kay ang previous nga discussion is about sa imong pag quote sa phrase "wages of sin" nga naa sa Romans 6:23 to mean nga gibayran ni Jesus ang atong sala pinaagi sa iyang kamatayon. Well yes gi bayran niya but to use Romans 6:23 to support your idea is unfit kay sama na sa akong gi ingon ang WAGES of SIN, ang pasabot ato didto is katong Sala ni Adam, ang WAGES ato is Death.

osbon nako para klaro sir, nigamit ka sa phrase nga WAGES of SIN to support the idea of Jesus paid our sins through his death,di ba? nya ingon ko nga dili na siya fit nga verse gamiton for that idea kay ang pasabot sa WAGES of SIN sa Romans is katong Sala nga na commit ni Adam nga napasa sa tao, ang bayad ato is DEATH, mao na ang pasabot sa Romans 6:23-- for the WAGES of SIN is DEATH and not to support the idea nga gibayran ni Jesus atong sala pinaagi sa iyang kamatayon.

kanang naa sa taas which is Romans 3:23 dili man na siya mao atong gi discuss.

[Tirong-say]

Evil does not exist per se for there are no devils and demons only effects and consequences of our karma or actions. Again, man in essence is GOOD and evil is just an illusion. When man is not aware of his true nature, his lower self which you call evil will manifest but that is not his true self but rather it is called his False Self. Our True Self is Divine.

Why man will not resort of doing good in situational factors? Well, you have to remember that good and bad are relative to situations and their actions are based on their level of understanding or consciousness. Their choices are always based on survival and it has something to do also with how evolve they are in terms of their actions and reactions.

The Infinite Love of GOD can never be absent to any man for GOD is within our souls. The root cause of suffering and sin is IGNORANCE, nothing more...nothing less.

NAMASTE!

So for the million of jews killed during second world war, you could say that it is just a cause of illusion and is also because of the false self........I could not discern any rationality...sorry..
such a notion is so biased in nature, perhaps siding towards evil...
I think man in it's essence is already complete, either he misused his completeness in doing evil deeds or more ideally use it in benefit for all humanity.....there is no more evolution involved...

Ignorance is different when the deed is intentional.............
alibi maybe it would tend to appear........

[LightBearer]

Here's more from the bible. To wit: Romans 5:12-21

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. 15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

mao na ang context sa mga verses up till Romans 6:23-For the wages of sin is death...

tan-awa ingon diha is SIN singular not plural...so it refers to the Sin of Adam and Eve passed down to all his children.

so again sayop si kebotDiNaMute sa iyang pasabot nga kini daw Wages of Sin means nga mao daw ng gibayran pinaagi sa kamatayon ni Jesus ang atong sala kay ang wage sa sin is death.

then ni quote siya sa romans 3:23 which does not support his idea.

[The_Child]

the problem of Hitler going to heaven and all, and where hell is really just an illusion, is a problem of justice. Even Karma(n) runs with the universal doctrine of justice called Rta. Because christianity does not hold on to the belief of a circle of life, that it presents heaven and hell - an eschatology - not merely as a superficial lore or superstition or as cultural symbol, but also to insure us that when justice is not serve in this world, (politics et al) then justice will be serve in the afterlife.

[regnauld]

So for the million of jews killed during second world war, you could say that it is just a cause of illusion and is also because of the false self........I could not discern any rationality...sorry..
such a notion is so biased in nature, perhaps siding towards evil...
I think man in it's essence is already complete, either he misused his completeness in doing evil deeds or more ideally use it in benefit for all humanity.....there is no more evolution involved...

Ignorance is different when the deed is intentional.............
alibi maybe it would tend to appear........

No one kills for the sake of killing, right? or else that man is insane or crazy.

So, How do you attribute man's negative behavior objectively?

I want you to study ATTRIBUTION THEORY and know why man kills or else you will just reason out that man is evil or does not believe in GOD thats why he kills and commits crime.

There is always evolution while we are here. As Jesus said, "Be perfect (through evolution) as your heavenly father is perfect."

[regnauld]

the problem of Hitler going to heaven and all, and where hell is really just an illusion, is a problem of justice. Even Karma(n) runs with the universal doctrine of justice called Rta. Because christianity does not hold on to the belief of a circle of life, that it presents heaven and hell - an eschatology - not merely as a superficial lore or superstition or as cultural symbol, but also to insure us that when justice is not serve in this world, (politics et al) then justice will be serve in the afterlife.

Well, Christianity after all is just a belief which stems from the pagan religions.

[The_Child]

Well, Christianity after all is just a belief which stems from the pagan religions.

yes, thats true. but whats the connection?

[Tirong-say]

I think when somebody kills, we call him a criminal.....a person liable to his doings....
It is of man's essence that he is capable of doing evil deeds, not because his evolution process is not complete but because that is what he really is......

I don't need any theory to distinguish what is bad or good nor what is righteous and evil, you can even see it practically..........

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Yup, I agree, but no evolution involved, the requirements is only to follow...........