Second Look on Islam

[tokidoki_v2.0]

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Malic, just as in Christianity, what aspect of your text is the cause of the beliefs of the Muslim extremists?

[v2s13]

@malic: kwischun lang bro kay curious au ko. Naw ang heaven sa Islam kay 72 virgins (naw 72 man jd? naa reason ani na number bro?) man nig ad2 nmo heaven? Does it mean ang men ra pwede mo ad2 heaven? ang mga women unsa ila makuha sa heaven?

Cant even understand unsa jd heaven sa christianity coz ang tao lain2x bya kalipay, it doenst mean kng buotan ka pareha mo kalipay. Unsa man ang heaven sa christianity?

[Hellblazer 2.1]

@sadiq malic:

asalam alaikum. sadiq, what sutra in your qur'an said about jesus not being crucified? that it was another man they crucified.

[Malic]

@sadiq malic:

asalam alaikum. sadiq, what sutra in your qur'an said about jesus not being crucified? that it was another man they crucified.

Wa alaikum salam


Qur'an(004.157) That they (Jews) said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

[Malic]

Malic, just as in Christianity, what aspect of your text is the cause of the beliefs of the Muslim extremists?

Hi sir i posted an article about it already


The article said that the culprit is the mistranslation of some arabic words. It also mentioned,that in reality sir there allegedly state sponsored terrorism who also sponsored mistranslations of the Qur'an.

[Malic]

@malic: kwischun lang bro kay curious au ko. Naw ang heaven sa Islam kay 72 virgins (naw 72 man jd? naa reason ani na number bro?) man nig ad2 nmo heaven? Does it mean ang men ra pwede mo ad2 heaven? ang mga women unsa ila makuha sa heaven?

Cant even understand unsa jd heaven sa christianity coz ang tao lain2x bya kalipay, it doenst mean kng buotan ka pareha mo kalipay. Unsa man ang heaven sa christianity?

Sir wala ko kabalo kung unsa ang heaven sa christianity.



Actually the number 72 wala na sa Quran. Ang tawag ana nila sir is Houri. Mga maidservants na sila andam mo alagad. In islam the muslims were promised to live like a prince or king in heaven.


Women will also go to heaven. They too will have their spouse/s.

some scholars would say nga these muslim women will be recreated and some of them will become these Houris.


Dictionary:
houri(hʊr'ē, hū'rē) pronunciation

Dictionary
n., pl. -ris.

1. A voluptuous, alluring woman.
2. One of the beautiful virgins of the Koranic paradise.


In Islam, the ḥūr or ḥūrīyah (Arabic: حورية‎) are described as "(splendid)[1] companions of equal age (well-matched)[2]", "lovely eyed"[3], of "modest gaze"[4], "voluptuous",[5] "pure beings" or "companions pure" of paradise, denoting humans and jinns who enter paradise after being recreated anew in the hereafter.[6] There are graphical descriptions of physical pleasures in heaven. Islam also has a strong mystical tradition which places these heavenly delights in the context of the ecstatic awareness of God.[7]

Description

The houri have variously been described as being "chaste females"[8], "restraining their glances"[9][10], "modest gaze"[4], "wide and beautiful/lovely eyes"[11][12][13][14][15], "untouched / with hymen unbroken by sexual intercourse"[16][17], "like pearls"[18], "virgins".

[tribu]

@tribu

tribu's statement...it is true that jesus brought sword upon his adherents because he knew they would be persecuted and killed in his name. while muhamad and his allah was different because muhamad and his allah commanded the muslim to bear the sword and kill people who do not submit to the will of muhamad and his alter ego allah.

Christians were being prepared to die for their persecution and non-violent actions while muhamad and his allah was telling muslims to kill people. that's the big difference.

the christians were being taught to die for their faith in the hands of swordsmen because of their peaceful preaching of love, while the muslims were being taught to carry swords for allah and slay anyone who oppose them.

though redundant, i have to repeat those phrases so it would be clear to all that there's a bog difference between christianity and islam.

Are you talking about the christians in the bible or the crusaders and their land grabbing,witch hunting and horrible acts of holy wars? I think these guys were inspired by what is written in the old testament.

a big difference indeed,hehe. You see when jews and christians during the time of muhammad were oppressing the Muslims they have to defend themelves and fight them or else their lands will go to these land grabbers and power-hunger people. And its still the same for today,when you see a muslim being oppressed we dont throw breads dude,we fight. Lisod ng ma rape atong igsoon nya tagaan lang nato ug pan ang rapist. Lisod ng gi kulata na ta nya kuhaon na atong yuta then ato pang e offer atong other cheek,hahaha. kamo lang pag ingun ana. Kaming mga muslim di mi musugot anang prinsipyoha.

nindot unta tong redundant ka sir nya sakto imong ponto,unsaon pagka dakong sayup man

if they follow the old testament then it means they are jews and not christians. it's that simple. christians lived by the new testament and not the old testament. the old testament are for the jews.

and again, let us judge the religions sacred books and not what the adherents were doing.

and FYI, the crusades were formed to protect the christians pilgrims form the attacks by terrorists along the pilgrim route. they were in the beginning there to protect the pilgrims but they later grew so powerful that they become like muhamad who lust for more power and more wealth.

and where did you get those verses? what do christians call those books? isn't it (the OLD testament?)

the abrogation of that verse can be found in the new testament of the christian bible.

correct,those verses were taken by Jesus(not me) from the old testament,so it means Jesus never and have no intentions of abrogating anything, palusot ra na sa mga christians,hehe. Remember Jesus never came here to abolish the law.

if they follow the old testament then it means they are jews and not christians. it's that simple. christians lived by the new testament and the old testament. the old testament are for the jews.

he did not abolished the law but he fulfilled it so he can negotiate a new commandment. that is why it says that he ransomed his believers from the old law. the old law that requires bloody sacrifice.

that is the reason why christians believed that he really died on the cross and shed his blood because blood was required to "buyout" the old covenant and negotiate a new one, a new covenant. but it was required that the party involved should fulfill the requirements of the law and so jesus did it for the christians he fulfilled the requirements but on the night before his crucifixion he gave them a new commandment and set a new system/organization for them. a new group whose laws are not written in stones but in their hearts. whose law is the law of tolerance, peace and love. thus the old law is gone and the new had begun.

oh you now want to cite the jewish talmud? good! i was to say that to you that that's exactly why i don't believe in those middle eastern religion because of the violence though christianity was already good because at least christianity already abrogated the old violent jewish law.

and talking about mary, i don't think mary is virgin, nor do i believe that mary's jesus is from god. i even think jesus is an illegitimate child and joseph was only there to save mary from being punished by the violent jewish law.

in fact, if i am to use psychology to examine the two personnage, jesus and muhamad.

i know why jesus founded a new religion whose foundation was tolerance and love. it was because he knew that as an illegitimate child he and his mother could have died at the hands of the religious authorities. and i believe he knew he was illegitimate that is why at the start of his ministry he kept telling people he is the "son of god".

while muhamad had to save his dignity by telling all women that they are dumb and must cover themselves because he was just an employee and one of the many husbands of khadija who was more powerful and wealthier than him. that is why at the death of khadija he had to save his honor by using an alter ego called allah to enthrone himself as the man who is an authority.

hahaha,did you just shift your position? one time you are using Jesus and christianity to discredit Islam and Muhammad,but the wind jsut shifted here.

kabalo ka sir thats a fallacy in argument,and this is not the first time you did it. So ill stop arguing with you na lang in LIVE debates sir,mo syagit na ang moderator ug ang mga tao ug PILDI NA KA. good thing that this is done sa forum. LOLZ.

mao nay kapait sa google sir,mas mau pa nga dili ka mo hatag sa impression nga sweto ka.

islam is discrediting itself. i am not even using any religion to discredit islam.

my position had always been the same. and i have always been clear from the beginning that christianity unlike islam is a religion of peace, love and tolerance because it had already abrogated the violent verse of the jewish law.

sa ato pa. ang christianismo nagkadugay nagkamaayo, apan ang islam nagkadugay nagkabuang naman nuon.

all that people have to do is read the quran and the hadith and compare it with the new testament of the christians.

i have always been telling people, judge the religion by their sacred book, read read read, read those sacred books and make comparison. which of these religion is tolerance, peace and love.

in christianity, people are always encourage to look within themselves, to view oneself as responsible for ones action. that is why christians are told to "pluck their own eyes", "remove the dust on their own eyes".

in most if not all islamic society, when women acidentally uncovers themselves and it makes the men lust for them, a muslim man will not say it's their fault like muhamad they'll blame it on the women. they point finger not at themselves but at their neighbors.

As if Christians never did that...Yeah, right...

And what's more, didnt the popes themselves approved of such actions?


Alel

we will judge the religion by what its sacred books are teaching its adherents and not what its adherents are doing. it's that simple.

read the sacred books of these religion and we will judge these religion through their sacred books.

Yes, these days it's all about whose god has got the biggest... di... er gun.

because people are foolish, if these god realy exist and he is in deed merciful and compassionate and powerful too. why don't he show himself and end all these religious war.

this only shows that there is really no such thing as god, god is just a product of man's wild imagination. and like muhamad god is an alter ego, a rubber stamp that makes all of muhamad's evil action legitimate. he wants to kill the person who said bad things about him and so he would makes a verses purportedly from god that says "you should kill eli soriano because he insulted my prophet." and so his adherents will then kill eli soriano and shout "allahu akbar" because allah commanded such to be done.

[Alel]

we will judge the religion by what its sacred books are teaching its adherents and not what its adherents are doing. it's that simple.

read the sacred books of these religion and we will judge these religion through their sacred books.

OK...In this light, where we look at the bible as it is and what is written, where interpretations are not allowed, then Christianity just get worse than ever. Genocide, murder, slavery, giving away your daughter, among other bane things.

I never read the Qu'ran hence I dont dare judge it as yet.

Well, I guess these books deserves the readers' interpretations. Religious teachings afterall seems to be about interpretations of these sacred texts.

Its just that the bible contain inconsistences that religions strive to straighten out, and in so doing, sound more or less ridiculous and/or irrational.

The 'way of the bible' is littered with a crazy number of Morton's Fork here and there, and followers seem very happy and very indulging in suspending their rationality just to ignore these oddities that threaten their beliefs where their beings are built upon.


Alel

[tokidoki_v2.0]

my position had always been the same. and i have always been clear from the beginning that christianity unlike islam is a religion of peace, love and tolerance because it had already abrogated the violent verse of the jewish law.

sa ato pa. ang christianismo nagkadugay nagkamaayo

That may be so but at the cost of inconsistencies. For me, the New Testament has always been a contradiction to the Old. Our priest told us that Jesus changed all these flaws in the earlier teaching to be better. However, the Bible isn't a growing piece of literature. Maypa atong mga dictionaries and encyclopedias naa pay mga Xth editions. Why not do that to the bible? Kay hadlo kmo magabaan? A religion that isn't open to change will be left in the dust and this already happening today with Christianity. Even God himself manifested the universe as an ever changing existence. You cannot freeze that fact by holding it all into just a text that stops at a certain point in time. Why not add more to the trials and tribulations that occurred throughout the history of Christianity? If indeed naai ikabuga ang mga Christyano ngano di mana idocument sa bibliya? It would definitely be a good place to put it. Hell, even Buddhism has an ever long library of scriptures!

in most if not all islamic society, when women acidentally uncovers themselves and it makes the men lust for them, a muslim man will not say it's their fault like muhamad they'll blame it on the women. they point finger not at themselves but at their neighbors.

Yes, I know, it's weird. But then again. so is Christianity.

we will judge the religion by what its sacred books are teaching its adherents and not what its adherents are doing. it's that simple.

read the sacred books of these religion and we will judge these religion through their sacred books.

Wala gihapon na kapadulngan pre. Because if the Bible, for example, could talk a conversation about violence would go like this:

Followers: It is not our fault we killed many. The Bible teaches us to do this and that...
Bible: It is not my fault. You misunderstood me. It your fault...

[tribu]

OK...In this light, where we look at the bible as it is and what is written, where interpretations are not allowed, then Christianity just get worse than ever. Genocide, murder, slavery, giving away your daughter, among other bane things.

I never read the Qu'ran hence I dont dare judge it as yet.

Well, I guess these books deserves the readers' interpretations. Religious teachings afterall seems to be about interpretations of these sacred texts.

Its just that the bible contain inconsistences that religions strive to straighten out, and in so doing, sound more or less ridiculous and/or irrational.

The 'way of the bible' is littered with a crazy number of Morton's Fork here and there, and followers seem very happy and very indulging in suspending their rationality just to ignore these oddities that threaten their beliefs where their beings are built upon.


Alel

That may be so but at the cost of inconsistencies. For me, the New Testament has always been a contradiction to the Old. Our priest told us that Jesus changed all these flaws in the earlier teaching to be better. However, the Bible isn't a growing piece of literature. Maypa atong mga dictionaries and encyclopedias naa pay mga Xth editions. Why not do that to the bible? Kay hadlo kmo magabaan? A religion that isn't open to change will be left in the dust and this already happening today with Christianity. Even God himself manifested the universe as an ever changing existence. You cannot freeze that fact by holding it all into just a text that stops at a certain point in time. Why not add more to the trials and tribulations that occurred throughout the history of Christianity? If indeed naai ikabuga ang mga Christyano ngano di mana idocument sa bibliya? It would definitely be a good place to put it. Hell, even Buddhism has an ever long library of scriptures!



Yes, I know, it's weird. But then again. so is Christianity.



Wala gihapon na kapadulngan pre. Because if the Bible, for example, could talk a conversation about violence would go like this:

Followers: It is not our fault we killed many. The Bible teaches us to do this and that...
Bible: It is not my fault. You misunderstood me. It your fault...

of course, the entire bible shows inconsistences especially many historical datas but there is one thing that is very consistent in christianity and that is the abrogation of the old law to usher in a new one that is more peaceful, loving and tolerant than the old jewish law. show us any inconsistencies of these teachings and i will show you how consistent are the teachings about self-examination, tolerance, love and peace in the teachings of the new testament. i have examined both the quran and the new testament objectively since i have nothing against any religion, i am for free thoughts and i am to judge each religion by their sacred teachings and see if it is peaceful, loving and tolerant. if it is not, then, it is something i consider to be a threat to humanity's peaceful coexistence and must be condemned because it is my stand that everyone is free to believe any god they want even if that god is a stone so long as they don't use that stone to kill their neighbors.

a year ago, i also thought that islam is peace because i didn't bother to read the quran and the hadith. i just trust all those commentaries from imams and islamic clerics but luckily i found a good source for islam's quran and hadith and started reading it. it opened my eyes and i finally found the answer to why many muslims do what they are doing and why there is so much oppression and suffering for non-muslims and even muslim women in many islamic countries especially those in the middle east. i finally realized i was fooled into believing that islam is peace.

and when i saw the reaction to my posts here, i also realized that all that i found out about islam in the quran and hadith are still being practiced by many muslims even if they would try to deny it. their actions would somehow betray their propaganda/coverups. i realized that questioning islam is dangerous because islam's sacred book had fear of being questioned and so it command its adherents to use intimidation and violence to silence the person who questions islam's truthfulness. the hadith is full of such examples. and one more undeniable truth is that islam prescribed death to apostates. which means it is islam's command to kill anyone who would freely chose to reject islam after being known as a muslim. it's undeniable because it's being implemented by shariah courts in most, if not all, muslim countries.