View Poll Results: who is the greatest bball player of all time?

Voters
288. You may not vote on this poll
  • KOBE! KOBE! KOBE!

    43 14.93%
  • MJ! MJ! MJ!

    245 85.07%
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  1. #511

    true different era sila kobe and jordan, but one thing is for sure.. Jordan is the jordan of basketball.

  2. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by sadahkingjam View Post
    then nagpasabot diay ni na ang ni vote ni MJ walay knowledge sa basketball lol....

    sa ako pud no, if kobe is better than MJ I would vote for kobe. but as of now perti pa gyud niyang layoa..

    dili ma question na siya ang pinakamaayo karon na player, but being the greatest impossible pa kaayo...

    then nagpasabot pud ni imo post na weak ang Detroit Pistons, Weak ang New York Knicks, Weak ang Boston Celtics..... hahahaha ka weak. oy

    ayaw pud kalimot sa Indiana Weak pud... Dale Davis og Antonio Davis plus Rick Smits. gagmay ra kaayo nya weak pa gyud hahahaha


    BASIN SA PANAHON RA KA NI KOBE NAGTAN AW OG NBA.... tan aw pud og NBA Classics haron naa pud ka idea sa panahon ni MJ.

    were: read this mga BAG - ONG TUBO HARON KASABOT MO

    The Style
    Go watch ESPN Classic some time, or even NBA TV, and check out some old NBA games. In between the run-and-gun years of the 70s and 80s, and the similar hustle-and-flow flavor of today's game, there was the 90s.

    Seriously, try and find the time to watch this stuff. Granted, I'm sure your recollection serves just fine in general, but you would be surprised how the details resurface in a different light now, contrasted against the way the game is played today.

    Watch closely. Reggie Miller gets bumped and grabbed one too many times going around screens back in his old Pacers days; you almost find yourself yelling "foul" at the TV, already reconditioned to the touchy feely standard of officiating games these days. MJ gets cracked an elbow in the ribs, once, twice, three times, at the top of the key by his defender. "Damn," you find yourself muttering under your breath, "isn't that a foul?" Today, yes. Back when they played real ball, no.

    Hand checks were frequent, and not only accepted, but encouraged. And if your quickness, handles, and upper body strength could keep you on balance and on course enough to manage a drive down the lane or towards the baseline, there would be seven feet and two hundred and seventy pounds of pain waiting for you at the rim in the form of an opposing big man. No touch fouls here. If you went up, you were going to get hammered. And this was in the days when contact around the rim wasn't considered an automatic trip to the free-line, just the usual routine drive, bang, and bucket of the NBA in the 90s.

    If you wanted to score, you had to earn it - the hard way.

    And that was just the guards, playing down low was a battle on an entirely different scale. The big men in the 90s may have been the best group of post players, league wide, that the NBA had seen since the days when Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell battled it out. Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O'Neal, Dikembe Mutombo. There won't be that many truly great centers in the NBA for the next twenty years, much less all in the same decade.

    The 90s were the time when big men were real big men, warriors, giant forces of intimidation and dominance - they were colossal, not merely in stature but results. There were no Barbie Doll Princess, "please don't touch me," big men like Dirk Nowitzki in the 90s, there couldn't be. Mark my words, players like Dirk Nowitzki couldn't even survive in that era. (Technically Dirk did play half a season in the '98-'99 lockout campaign, in which he sucked, thereby proving my case.)

    Big men pounded and battled for position in the lane like sumo wrestlers contend for space in a circle that's too damn small, pushing, shoving, elbowing, treating every inch of painted real estate like it was priceless. Today, if you get hit down low you instantly get put on the line. Back in the day? There was no 'if' involved, you were going to get hit, and unless you got the living @!$%# smacked out of you and hit the hardwood, you probably weren't getting a call.

    So what does all this mean? Why does it matter? And most importantly, why does it make the 90s better than any other NBA era? Because players were tougher, both mentally and physically, then they are now. There was a style of physicality that has been deliberately removed by the league in favor of a softer, gentler, more offensive driven league, all because the networks and David Stern believe high scoring, no defense, basketball is the only thing that can get ratings. The 90s weren't just the era of Jordan, or the era of some of the best big men ever, it was the era of the badass.

    dapa o ta aw sa video kung unsa ka lisod pag 90's YouTube - Michael Jordan vs 90's defenses, the breakdown Vol 1 Part 1



    Larry Brown in an interview said:

    "The league wants that. You can’t guard anybody anymore, If Michael (Jordan) played today he’d average 60 a game, as much as they call fouls on the perimeter. You’ve got to have people that can keep guards in front of them without fouling. It’s unbelievably important now. And now you need guys that can penetrate and play pick-and-roll and get people involved."

    MJ was also the better defender of the 2 YouTube - michael jordan defense


    And remember MJ also played in 2001 - 2002 were the zone defense was implemented that the thread starter said was tough. lol tsk tsk tsk

    pila ave. ni MJ ? 20 ppg pila iya age - 40... the question here what if MJ was in his prime pila kaha iya ma score/ave in todays league? tubag!!!!!!!!!
    Kuyawa hasta si Larry Brown makaingon mo ave. si MJ og 60 sa karon na era.

  3. #513
    grabe jud si MJ oi. mura na lagi ug Super Human. Ma defense or offense na jud permi. Mao ni,kada game mo dominate jud cya. Kan-on lang depensa sa kontra.

  4. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by sadahkingjam View Post
    then nagpasabot diay ni na ang ni vote ni MJ walay knowledge sa basketball lol....

    sa ako pud no, if kobe is better than MJ I would vote for kobe. but as of now perti pa gyud niyang layoa..

    dili ma question na siya ang pinakamaayo karon na player, but being the greatest impossible pa kaayo...

    then nagpasabot pud ni imo post na weak ang Detroit Pistons, Weak ang New York Knicks, Weak ang Boston Celtics..... hahahaha ka weak. oy

    ayaw pud kalimot sa Indiana Weak pud... Dale Davis og Antonio Davis plus Rick Smits. gagmay ra kaayo nya weak pa gyud hahahaha


    BASIN SA PANAHON RA KA NI KOBE NAGTAN AW OG NBA.... tan aw pud og NBA Classics haron naa pud ka idea sa panahon ni MJ.

    were: read this mga BAG - ONG TUBO HARON KASABOT MO

    The Style
    Go watch ESPN Classic some time, or even NBA TV, and check out some old NBA games. In between the run-and-gun years of the 70s and 80s, and the similar hustle-and-flow flavor of today's game, there was the 90s.

    Seriously, try and find the time to watch this stuff. Granted, I'm sure your recollection serves just fine in general, but you would be surprised how the details resurface in a different light now, contrasted against the way the game is played today.

    Watch closely. Reggie Miller gets bumped and grabbed one too many times going around screens back in his old Pacers days; you almost find yourself yelling "foul" at the TV, already reconditioned to the touchy feely standard of officiating games these days. MJ gets cracked an elbow in the ribs, once, twice, three times, at the top of the key by his defender. "Damn," you find yourself muttering under your breath, "isn't that a foul?" Today, yes. Back when they played real ball, no.

    Hand checks were frequent, and not only accepted, but encouraged. And if your quickness, handles, and upper body strength could keep you on balance and on course enough to manage a drive down the lane or towards the baseline, there would be seven feet and two hundred and seventy pounds of pain waiting for you at the rim in the form of an opposing big man. No touch fouls here. If you went up, you were going to get hammered. And this was in the days when contact around the rim wasn't considered an automatic trip to the free-line, just the usual routine drive, bang, and bucket of the NBA in the 90s.

    If you wanted to score, you had to earn it - the hard way.

    And that was just the guards, playing down low was a battle on an entirely different scale. The big men in the 90s may have been the best group of post players, league wide, that the NBA had seen since the days when Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell battled it out. Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O'Neal, Dikembe Mutombo. There won't be that many truly great centers in the NBA for the next twenty years, much less all in the same decade.

    The 90s were the time when big men were real big men, warriors, giant forces of intimidation and dominance - they were colossal, not merely in stature but results. There were no Barbie Doll Princess, "please don't touch me," big men like Dirk Nowitzki in the 90s, there couldn't be. Mark my words, players like Dirk Nowitzki couldn't even survive in that era. (Technically Dirk did play half a season in the '98-'99 lockout campaign, in which he sucked, thereby proving my case.)

    Big men pounded and battled for position in the lane like sumo wrestlers contend for space in a circle that's too damn small, pushing, shoving, elbowing, treating every inch of painted real estate like it was priceless. Today, if you get hit down low you instantly get put on the line. Back in the day? There was no 'if' involved, you were going to get hit, and unless you got the living @!$%# smacked out of you and hit the hardwood, you probably weren't getting a call.

    So what does all this mean? Why does it matter? And most importantly, why does it make the 90s better than any other NBA era? Because players were tougher, both mentally and physically, then they are now. There was a style of physicality that has been deliberately removed by the league in favor of a softer, gentler, more offensive driven league, all because the networks and David Stern believe high scoring, no defense, basketball is the only thing that can get ratings. The 90s weren't just the era of Jordan, or the era of some of the best big men ever, it was the era of the badass.

    dapa o ta aw sa video kung unsa ka lisod pag 90's YouTube - Michael Jordan vs 90's defenses, the breakdown Vol 1 Part 1



    Larry Brown in an interview said:

    "The league wants that. You can’t guard anybody anymore, If Michael (Jordan) played today he’d average 60 a game, as much as they call fouls on the perimeter. You’ve got to have people that can keep guards in front of them without fouling. It’s unbelievably important now. And now you need guys that can penetrate and play pick-and-roll and get people involved."

    MJ was also the better defender of the 2 YouTube - michael jordan defense


    And remember MJ also played in 2001 - 2002 were the zone defense was implemented that the thread starter said was tough. lol tsk tsk tsk

    pila ave. ni MJ ? 20 ppg pila iya age - 40... the question here what if MJ was in his prime pila kaha iya ma score/ave in todays league? tubag!!!!!!!!!
    F***in' OWNED!!!

    Let's go home!!! It's OVER!
    Last edited by The Good$!!!; 11-13-2008 at 12:26 AM.

  5. #515
    one simple evidence...
    just look at the finals between boston and lakers
    unsa ang nabuhat ni kobe

  6. #516
    did you even watch the videos i posted?
    "Back when they played real ball, no. "

    YouTube - 2008 NBA FINALS: Kobe Bryant vs. Boston Celtics Zone Defense

    was there a hand check called? how can you guard kobe without hand checking?

    real ball my rectal orifice. defending kobe is defending today's brand of basketball.
    those days were gone, nothing is static everything is evolving even basketball. Jordan was the past, kobe is the present, Lebron is the future. Have you even considered each of the players individual basketball skills of today and compare them with the past? The new kind of techniques for work outs and trainings that makes the big and strong be as agile as point guards? Ok you talk about nowitzki and your so called "big men" of the 90's. Dirk may be a little skinny compared to the big men of the 90's but Nowitzki has the shooting range, the quickness, and the ball handling to shit over those big men. Nowitzki, Duncan, Kevin Garnett are just examples of the revolution of power forwards, they force this so called "physical big men" of yours not to camp in the paint or they will pay the price. Can't you even notice the type of competition the present basketball teams are up against? how about looking at the Western Conference, isn't that enough convince you? Almost all the teams are able to shit on one another. Physicality does not always translate to effectiveness.

    Mj had all the luxury in the world to succeed. weaker competition, rules that benefit the individual player, height advantage over smaller shooting guards, rare athlecism compared to today's type of raw talent. Do you think MJ would have all those winning shots if those games were played in today's rules and today's players? of course not. Do you even think that teams today would allow Jordan to isolate on the last play of the last quarter when the game is on the line? Are you kidding me? and Don't tell me to watch classic NBA games, i can't stand watching those boring games. i fall asleep from watching those games. No wonder the rules changed. The rules today tends the coaches to be more strategic, rather than isolate, man to man, isolation of the 90's.

    did you read the article about zone defense?

    "pila ave. ni MJ ? 20 ppg pila iya age - 40... the question here what if MJ was in his prime pila kaha iya ma score/ave in todays league? tubag!!!!!!!!!"

    before ko motubag ani. even Phil Jackson confirmed that Kobe is better than Jordan. Are you saying you guys know better than the guy who have coached the two players?

  7. #517
    And remember MJ also played in 2001 - 2002 were the zone defense was implemented that the thread starter said was tough. lol tsk tsk tsk

    pila ave. ni MJ ? 20 ppg pila iya age - 40... the question here what if MJ was in his prime pila kaha iya ma score/ave in todays league? tubag!!!!!!!!!


    hahahahaha walay lagi nakatubag ani na question....btaw no at 40 lisod na kaayo na

  8. #518
    Putting Kobe in Perspective.
    Jemele Hill (espn)


    Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.
    Not more successful.
    Hasn't had a bigger economic impact.
    Hasn't won more MVPs.


    Kobe Bryant did something Michael Jordan never
    did -- score 50-plus in four consecutive games.


    Hasn't won more titles.But he's a better player.

    Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.
    Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode.
    At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.
    Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.
    Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.
    Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.
    In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.
    Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
    The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
    Besides a different level of media scrutiny, there was definitely a difference in the level of competition during Jordan's heyday compared to now.
    We ask you to step back and take an objective look. Isn't Kobe the best player in the NBA?


    Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.The NBA is tougher now.
    Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.
    Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.
    The shame of it is that Kobe might finish his career without a MVP, even though his ability can be compared only to that of Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. All this time we've been looking for a player who is better than Jordan, but most of us can't get beyond whether we like or dislike Kobe as a person to recognize his contributions to the game.
    Ultimately the MVP award will go to either Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, who are deserving this season, but neither are as good as Kobe. Dallas and Phoenix are strong enough to make the playoffs without their stars. The Lakers, however, are a lottery team without Kobe.
    Now that's a valuable player.

  9. #519
    Kobe = 23
    MJ = 131


    So it's not hard to decide after all.

  10. #520
    Wilt Chamberlain > MJ > Kobe.


    Why?
    Wilt Chamberlain is a good scorer and most of all he bangs 20,000 women in his entire life.

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