Tinuod ba may porgatoryo?

[necrotic freak]

---

dili bitaw makasulod sa langit ang unclean mao nang samtang buhi paka pag cleansing na diri...

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.



so ang cleansing samtang buhi pa diay noh? dili diay sa purgatory noh?

unya sigurado ba gyud ka nga maka clean ka sa imong kalag sa dili paka mamatay? 100% sure clean ka? tell me.. aw kung dli ka clean bisag .01% lang ayaw nalang gyud pagdahom malangit ka ha? kay sa buhi raman kaha ta pwde maka cleansing wla na inig kamatay.

ngano man lagi ni gi ingon sa san mateo,

Mt 12:32
32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

so naa pa diay pinasayloay sa sunod kinabuhi Tobi sa?

[necrotic freak]

wala man jud na mention ang purgatorty sa bible nagsugod ning purgatory katong Lady and the Juggler man guro (dili jud ko sure!).kalimot jud ko kinsa nagsulat ato basta sa Renaissance to na period na naghisgot sa ug purgatory... i research sa to nako.........basta kato na literary work didto nagstart ang pagmention ug purgatory..........mobalik rako if ma research to nako...

balik baya ha?

[Tobi]

unya sigurado ba gyud ka nga maka clean ka sa imong kalag sa dili paka mamatay? 100% sure clean ka? tell me.. aw kung dli ka clean bisag .01% lang ayaw nalang gyud pagdahom malangit ka ha? kay sa buhi raman kaha ta pwde maka cleansing wla na inig kamatay.

naa man gyuy cleansing samtang buhi pata mao bitaw na ang sugo ni Paul.

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

kung naa gihapoy sala inig kamatay nimo, aw si Cristo ray bahalag tabon ana dili ang purgatory. siguradua lang nga kung mamatay ka sa Ginoo ka.

Rom 14:8 Kay kong kita buhi, nagakinabuhi kita alang sa Ginoo; ug kong kita mamatay, mamatay kita alang sa Ginoo; busa kong kita buhi, kun kita mamatay, iya kita sa Ginoo.

kay kung sa Ginoo ka, bisan makasala ka dili naman na tan awn sa Ginoo.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

so ang maka 100% clean ra diay nimo ang purgatory diay? unsa na siya nga verse?

ngano man lagi ni gi ingon sa san mateo,

Mt 12:32
32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

so naa pa diay pinasayloay sa sunod kinabuhi Tobi sa?

naa bitaw forgiveness sa next life kay mugamit man ang Ginoo ug mercy.

Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

kung naay mercy, naa gyuy forgiveness...

unya asa manang pinasayluay? sa purgatory? or sa judgement day?

mao bitaw pasayluon ka kay naa pakay sala nga nakit an sa Ginoo...kay kung na cleanse naka sa purgatory, ngano man magpinasayluay paman nalimpyo naman kaha ka sa purgatory?

asa raman ang verse nga naay cleansing inig kamatay nimo?

[Siobhan]

hehehhe sayop jud d i dili Our Lady and the Juggler its the work of Dante Alighieri called "Divina" or Divine Comedy.....dira nag start ug mention and purgartory.........The poem tells of Dante's journey through the three realms of the dead, lasting during the Easter Triduum in the spring of 1300. The Roman poet Virgil guides him through Hell and Purgatory; Beatrice, Dante's ideal woman, guides him through Heaven. Beatrice was a Florentine woman whom he had met in childhood......

[necrotic freak]

naa man gyuy cleansing samtang buhi pata mao bitaw na ang sugo ni Paul.

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

kung naa gihapoy sala inig kamatay nimo, aw si Cristo ray bahalag tabon ana dili ang purgatory. siguradua lang nga kung mamatay ka sa Ginoo ka.?

kang kinsa man diay nang purgatory? mao bitaw na ang mercy ni Cristo pinaagi sa pag limpyo sa imong kalag..

Rom 14:8 Kay kong kita buhi, nagakinabuhi kita alang sa Ginoo; ug kong kita mamatay, mamatay kita alang sa Ginoo; busa kong kita buhi, kun kita mamatay, iya kita sa Ginoo.

kay kung sa Ginoo ka, bisan makasala ka dili naman na tan awn sa Ginoo.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

so ang maka 100% clean ra diay nimo ang purgatory diay? unsa na siya nga verse??

1Cor 3:15
15If the work is burned, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.

naa bitaw forgiveness sa next life kay mugamit man ang Ginoo ug mercy.

Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

kung naay mercy, naa gyuy forgiveness...

unya asa manang pinasayluay? sa purgatory? or sa judgement day??

duha ka klase ang judgement day, particular and general judgement.

particular, is inigkamatay nimo husgahan dayon ka. ug dili paka madala sa langit(friends in christ only), temporary holding place usa ka. kung naka sala ka sa holyspirit sa buhi paka dritso ka sa hell..

general, sa katapusan dunganon tanan patay o buhi. ang mga righteous magpuyo sa NEW HEAVEN, ang mga wicked sa lake of fire..

mao bitaw pasayluon ka kay naa pakay sala nga nakit an sa Ginoo...kay kung na cleanse naka sa purgatory, ngano man magpinasayluay paman nalimpyo naman kaha ka sa purgatory?

asa raman ang verse nga naay cleansing inig kamatay nimo?

1 Pet 1:7
7so that the genuineness of your faith—being more precious than gold that, though perishable, is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honour when Jesus Christ is revealed.

naa koy pangutana tobi,

asa man ato nga time ang mga souls nila Moses and Elias sa wala pa na open ni Cristo ang gates of heaven? alangan naman pod ug tua sila sa hell... wala nag ingon nga sa purgatory to sila ha. pero naa pajud lain lugar gawas sa heaven ug hell....

[Tobi]

kang kinsa man diay nang purgatory? mao bitaw na ang mercy ni Cristo pinaagi sa pag limpyo sa imong kalag..

kang kinsa man diay na? unsa na nga verse sa bible? pwede pakita sa imong basihan?

1Cor 3:15
15If the work is burned, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.

nigamit napud ka ug verse nga wala nimo masabti...itaas daw ang verse kung unsay buot ipasabot ana...

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

ang kanang "fire" nga buot ipasabot diha, mga pagsuway intawn na nga muabot sa usa ka Cristiano. kay ang usa ka Cristiano gud, mura na siyag bulawan nga gisunog sa kalayo.

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

duha ka klase ang judgement day, particular and general judgement.
particular, is inigkamatay nimo husgahan dayon ka. ug dili paka madala sa langit(friends in christ only), temporary holding place usa ka. kung naka sala ka sa holyspirit sa buhi paka dritso ka sa hell..

general, sa katapusan dunganon tanan patay o buhi. ang mga righteous magpuyo sa NEW HEAVEN, ang mga wicked sa lake of fire..

unsa ni siya nga verse? dis a ni nimo kuhaa? dis a man ka nakakuha anang imong particular ug general?

1 Pet 1:7
7so that the genuineness of your faith—being more precious than gold that, though perishable, is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honour when Jesus Christ is revealed.

naa koy pangutana tobi,

asa man ato nga time ang mga souls nila Moses and Elias sa wala pa na open ni Cristo ang gates of heaven? alangan naman pod ug tua sila sa hell... wala nag ingon nga sa purgatory to sila ha. pero naa pajud lain lugar gawas sa heaven ug hell....

asa napud na nimo nakuha nang "sa wala pa na open ni Cristo ang gates of heaven"...?sarado diay na sa una? dis a na nimo punita? unsa nga verse?

asa ang mga souls nila ni Moses ug Elias? aw naa sa Ginoo sa iyang mga kamot.

Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

nibalik na sa Ginoo ang ilang mga espiritu ug ibalik ra pud unya na kung muabot na ang panahon nga mubalik si Cristo.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


oi asa raman ang verse nga naa pay cleansing inig kamatay nimo?

[xiao-xiao]

@Tobi:

2 Maccabees 12:39-46

12:39
And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.
12:40
And they found under the coats of the slain, some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain.
12:41
Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
12:42
And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
12:43
And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.
12:44
(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)
12:45
And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
12:46
It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

[Tobi]

@Tobi:

2 Maccabees 12:39-46

12:39
And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.
12:40
And they found under the coats of the slain, some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain.
12:41
Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
12:42
And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
12:43
And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.
12:44
(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)
12:45
And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
12:46
It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

tua napud...nigamit napud ug Maccabees...

asay imong proof nga part sa original scriptures nang Maccabees?

[xiao-xiao]

asa imong proof nga dili na part sa original scriptures?

[necrotic freak]

The Greek word used for fire is "pursw" (puroo) of which "pur" is the root word for Purgatory.

kang kinsa man diay na? unsa na nga verse sa bible? pwede pakita sa imong basihan?



nigamit napud ka ug verse nga wala nimo masabti...itaas daw ang verse kung unsay buot ipasabot ana...

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

ang kanang "fire" nga buot ipasabot diha, mga pagsuway intawn na nga muabot sa usa ka Cristiano. kay ang usa ka Cristiano gud, mura na siyag bulawan nga gisunog sa kalayo.

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

ang fire kay pagsuway sa umaabot? hmmm..

These verses say that man will be purified by fire and then will be saved to enter Heaven..

Hebrews 12:29
29for indeed our God is a consuming fire.

unsa ni siya nga verse? dis a ni nimo kuhaa? dis a man ka nakakuha anang imong particular ug general??

Hebrews 9:27
27And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once, and after that the judgement,

1 Cor 3:8
8The one who plants and the one who waters have a common purpose, and each will receive wages according to the labour of each.

ang tao nga mangamatay before sa general judgement day kay hukman gihapon diha2x.

naay simple logic Tobi ay..

kada tapos buwan kada usa nato mak dawat gyud ug sweldo whether kinuhaan sa absent or napu-an sa overtime. pero generally kada tapos sa tuig makadawat gyud ta ug bonus/13th month..

asa napud na nimo nakuha nang "sa wala pa na open ni Cristo ang gates of heaven"...?sarado diay na sa una? dis a na nimo punita? unsa nga verse??

hala ka diha.. nag eskwela ka ug bible school Tobi? wala mo tudlu-e nga sa O.T. times before sa ressurection ni Cristo kay closed pa ang heaven? si Crsito ang nakapa abli ug usab Tobi oi alang ug para kanato..

asa ang mga souls nila ni Moses ug Elias? aw naa sa Ginoo sa iyang mga kamot.

Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

nibalik na sa Ginoo ang ilang mga espiritu ug ibalik ra pud unya na kung muabot na ang panahon nga mubalik si Cristo.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

hehe.. kadto nga time ba Tobi sa pagkamatay nila ug gikuha sila sa Ginoo, asa man sila gibutang sa Ginoo nga wala pamay tao maka sulod sa langit ato nga time?

oi asa raman ang verse nga naa pay cleansing inig kamatay nimo?

"And who shall be able to think of the day of His coming? And who shall stand to see Him? For HE IS LIKE A REFINING FIRE, and like the fuller's herb; AND HE SHALL SIT REFINING AND CLEANSING THE SILVER. AND HE SHALL PURIFY THE SONS OF LEVI, AND SHALL REFINE THEM AS GOLD, AND AS SILVER, and they shall offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice."
Malachi 3:2-3

Hebrews 12:29
29for indeed our God is a consuming fire.