An attempt to define God

[rcruman]

---

Im sorry to disappoint you all.
Men were not meant to know God.
There is an ocean of difference between the level of beings between man and God.
And that huge difference is seen if you compare what man can do between with what God can do.
So to talk about God is mere speculation on our part.

It is like saying the ant can know what the solar system looks like.

meaning you're answer is right and we should be disappointed?
all your basis can only be defined by you.

So if you're going to be asked bro Soul Doctor, we can't know your GOD?

God that you know can't be compared to the GOD I've known.

Peace!

[tingkagol]

Truth is, saying that God is "the alpha and omega" confuses more than it simplifies. Personally, I think it's just one of those religious metaphors where dozens of interpretations can spring from and in the process rendering it useless.

Still, there's no point in changing someone's interpretation of it though. If it works for him, leave him be. Unless he interprets it as "kill all people" then there's no reason to worry.


I still don't see the point of arguing over something so vague.

[rcruman]

It is like saying the ant can know what the solar system looks like.

you're confident and sure that ANT doesn't know what the solar system looks like.
have you talked to an ANT?
Are you GOD to know everything?

Let me ask you soul doctor, Do you believe that GOD can make the ANT knows what the solar system looks like?
If not then Its clear that your GOD is different from the GOD that I've known and worshipped.

Peace!

[tingkagol]

you're confident and sure that ANT doesn't know what the solar system looks like.
have you talked to an ANT?
Are you GOD to know everything?

Let me ask you soul doctor, Do you believe that GOD can make the ANT knows what the solar system looks like?
If not then Its clear that your GOD is different from the GOD that I've known and worshipped.

Peace!

I'm pretty sure he will agree that God can do that.

And I'm sure he only used his "ant analogy" to get his point across.

[Malic]

Truth is, saying that God is "the alpha and omega" confuses more than it simplifies. Personally, I think it's just one of those religious metaphors where dozens of interpretations can spring from and in the process rendering it useless.

Still, there's no point in changing someone's interpretation of it though. If it works for him, leave him be. Unless he interprets it as "kill all people" then there's no reason to worry.


I still don't see the point of arguing over something so vague.

Well there are people who thinks that theirs is the only right interpretation. I personally have no problems with people who takes a different view other than my interpretation. My argument is, exegesis of scriptures must be bound by the general context of the book from which it is taken from. The guy reacted tho I never said that it was wrong over my comment on his interpretation. I told him that his interpretation is very simple which is true.

[tingkagol]

I understand you're just bent up with your definition of God as "the destroyer" in the book of revelations. Jamesmusslewhite merely preferred to define God in a less dramatic euphemism:

No were in the text does it say he will destroy all things. He will remake the Earth and man...

The essence remains the same though.

[tokidoki]

This is interesting because it would label all christians as blasphemers.

I AM labeling all Christians or (their leaders) as blasphemers. After all, we Christians are the most concentrated bunch of hypocrites in collective history.

"The lord would not allow you to do that..."

"The lord wants us to do this..."

bla bla bla....


to me this is borderline in claiming to be god yourself.

[jamesmusslewhite]

When you are not in focus your mind would pull you away to someplace else and that is exactly what is happening to you right now.

okay Alpha and Omega means Beginning and End. Now when He says that He is the beginning, what does it really mean? according to your simple interpretation it means the He was there from the very start of time and even before time. BUT does the meaning stop there, that He was there sitting in someplace since the beginning of time? James,the meaning does not end there. That kind of interpretation James takes the very essence of the meaning of the word Alpha or God being the "Beginning". What John wanted us to know in his declaration was that God is the Creator, The Source, The first, etc. of everything.
Yes as stated in the very first line of Genesis, Gen: 1:1 "In the beginning God created heaven and earth."

Same thing with the word Omega or end. God being The End means that He will stop and destroy whatever it is that He wanted destroyed and changed. The word does not only mean and let me quote you..."he is at the end of man's time", the essence of that word goes beyond than just being there at the end of man's time. It means God being the Omega or The End will changed and destroy something.
Revelation 21:1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Your interpretation is too simple and I must say that it is way out of the intended context of the book of Revelation. The Book of Revelation talks about "destruction and punishment" so you should treat the words Alpha and Omega or Beginning and End within the boundaries of the context.
Yes but also the rebirth of man and the universe

Once again let me give you a clear picture of your interpretation of the word Alpha and Omega.
let me quote you... Simple He was before man's time, during the middle of man's time, and he is at the end of man's time. All at once, at the same time.God said let their be light, and Jesus spoke the word. Jesus spoke to Abraham and Moses thousands of years before he was born in an earthly body. At the battle of Armageddon God will motion when the time is his to know, and Jesus will sound the charge. The Final Judgment God and his Son will be both present. here, you are only saying that God was there from the beginning and He will be there in the End. very simplistic.
Yes 1,700 pages of text condensed into 5 lines. I am proud of it myself.

see, I think you forgot that the context from where Alpha and Omega is taken from is the Book of Revelation were Armageddon,Judgment day, the rise of the anti-christ and his kingdom, and the destruction of the anti-christ and his kingdom is mentioned. Your exegesis must be based on the context James. If we are to compare my interpretation with yours, I must say that mine is closer to the context. yours is too simple tho not wrong but it did not hit the mark.
Well for me to accept your interpretation I must first ignore the following
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, God's dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them (as their God). He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, (for) the old order has passed away." The one who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Then he said, "Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true." He said to me, "They are accomplished. I (am) the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water. The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Yep, hard for me to accept God as the Great Destroyer. sounds like to me that he is going to make some serious upgrades and improvements. I personally hope he starts tomorrow.

did the Reverend taught you about this?
Yes and even more than you could probably accept.

Yes Reverend Dr. Wayne Stevens also taught me to read the first line to the last line in the bible. To always use the whole of the text and not to just pick and choose. To be aware of the misinterpretations of text and manipulations of verses used by those not well versed or used by those with hidden agendas or bad intentions. To test everything with the scriptures, and to read everything for myself.

The text taught me to keep it simple. Complexity only causes confusion. The text is complex but was designed to be easily understood by a child. A spiritual Child. As the spiritual child grows in the understanding of word, so does the text. Simple.

[Malic]

Yes as stated in the very first line of Genesis, Gen: 1:1 "In the beginning God created heaven and earth."
and that's exactly my point, god being the Alpha or The Creator

Revelation 21:1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
again, that's exactly my point, God being The Omega or the End

Yes 1,700 pages of text condensed into 5 lines. I am proud of it myself.
no wonder a lot of things were missing.

Well for me to accept your interpretation I must first ignore the following
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, God's dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them (as their God). He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, (for) the old order has passed away." The one who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Then he said, "Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true." He said to me, "They are accomplished. I (am) the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water. The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

why would you ignore them when that is exactly the point that I was trying to drive at you.

Yep, hard for me to accept God as the Great Destroyer. sounds like to me that he is going to make some serious upgrades and improvements. I personally hope he starts tomorrow.
Why is it hard? The bible mentions about it. Are you reading your bible James? God DESTROYED the city of Sodom and Gomorrah, He is both The Great Creator and Destroyer.Why are you avoiding this fact?

Yes and even more than you could probably accept.
Tell the Reverend that he is not doing a good job.


Yes Reverend Dr. Wayne Stevens also taught me to read the first line to the last line in the bible. To always use the whole of the text and not to just pick and choose. To be aware of the misinterpretations of text and manipulations of verses used by those not well versed or used by those with hidden agendas or bad intentions. To test everything with the scriptures, and to read everything for myself.
The text taught me to keep it simple. Complexity only causes confusion. The text is complex but was designed to be easily understood by a child. A spiritual Child. As the spiritual child grows in the understanding of word, so does the text. Simple.

but inspite of that, you missed big time.

Just accept the fact james that the phrase Alpha and Omega can mean different things. but again let me say this, your interpretation is not wrong but rather it was too simple and missed the mark.

[jamesmusslewhite]

Just accept the fact james that the phrase Alpha and Omega can mean different things. but again let me say this, your interpretation is not wrong but rather it was too simple and missed the mark.

No I just did not completely agree with you. I can accept that one can interpret many different things from the Bible. Men have use the book to establish their claims and many of those claims over history were simply wrong. I do not have to accept every claim that one makes while using the text. I just refuse blindly accept and do not choose to argue over points of semantics.

Yes I keep it simple. You have to keep it child simple and take the text in small steps it takes years of devotion for a spiritual child to mature into a true righteous being. Some people can not accept they are a spiritual child. Their adult brains require that they over-reason and over-think without true understanding. They refuse to take the small steps, and properly mature, they want to stand and preach even when not ready.

Mark 10:14-16 - [Jesus] said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them. (NIV)

When God says we must be as a little child to enter His kingdom, I can see why. A child sees things in the charm of mystical simplicity. We need to see God in this very way, to accept things as they are, and form our minds in child-like ways. We are, as little children, to believe in God and accept His Son as our Savior. This is called faith, and it is the way we accept God into our lives -- simply, without question, for it is He who chose us, not we who chose Him.


You want to use the text for vindication of your own concept of God as the Great Destroyer. I see God as one who has to punish because of the actions of man. We anger the father, and then he must punish. I see God as the one thing that I know loves me, and wants only the best for me, and is willing to give me amazing things that are even beyond my comprehension; all I have to do is love him, obey him, and give him praise.



So if you think I miss your mark, than that is your problem not mine. I am doing as I am told, out of respect for my father. The question is are you?