MERGED: All About RP-US Mutual Defense Treaty/ VFA-MLSA and Related Issues

[walker]

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lets face it Philippines, you need the US or China will bully you!

anyone missing SOFA stamps?

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

not too much technology is shared, obviously, if this is indeed a preparation of an aggressive China. what it is really a military training to prevent the country from imploding under the weight of internal armed conflicts (CPP-NPA-NDF and the MILF). everybody has to agree that the landed elite who now wield power would never allow losing what position they have to these armed insurgencies. under the guise of 'national security' which most swallowed hook-line and sinker, deals were made to protect their interests and the US troops were allowed back into philippine soil.

For obvious reasons it would not be that of a preparation competent enough to protect us from China , but definitely for internal conflicts like what you said, we dont have the means for large scale war . When we recieve surplus equipment , we just dont jump on it and operate . US personnel are sent to train soldiers , airmen , sailors etc . although on our side ( govt ) gi himo ug business . A clean 10 man specops commando can eliminate the ASG in less than half an hour for good if they want to lang as an example .

Lain man sad if the AFP are being trained for example as an armorer for the Tavor rifle and ang issue nila is only an M16A2 pa jud . They just utilize the resources and make the soldiers better .

which makes it even worse, because it is not permanent. this gives more license for it to be everywhere. essentially every island in this country can be a 'temporary base', unless grave opposition is mounted by civilians and the media. unlike clark and subic where the bases have definite boundaries, the boundaries that MLSA sets is synonymous with the country's borders.

Each of these has its own pros and cons , what you stated are only the cons . How about the PROS ?

same thing with the kind of supposed employment that the bases brought along; i do not think there are a lot who are qualified to provide such sevices, much less the actual infrastacture and materials for such. this makes everything bogus as it is; showing that it is not "logistics" and "suppies" that MLSA is after, but wider access to areas outside the usual perimeters of the old subic and clark bases.

The difference of American culture to the rest of the world in terms of employment sa ? As an example , I will use myself . I have a degree in culinary from one of the best cook schools ( Le Cordon Bleu ) in the world and 10 years of actual high volume kitchen experience cooking . Everytime I apply for work , regardless if I have these or not , I still undergo training whats suitable for the work I am into maski of the same nature pa siya . Same with the Subic and Clark bases , they just dont hire engineers because that specific work is asking for an engineer , maski 30 years na ang experience nimo , just like the rookie engineers , you would still undergo training just like the average joe maski maka ingon pa ka na piyungan ra na nimo because kamao ka ana .

If they are after for what you thought of , I dont see any problem with that personally . What difference it would really make sa MLSA compare sa 2 ka actual bases before ?

What am I asking about the MLSA issue here is say we supply them ammunition . Mo dawat kaha sila ug bala mde by ARMSCOR ?

the Philippine experience is always a unique case. unlike the experience in Okinawa, the accused was detained inside the US Embassy while trial was going on. after the conviction, instead of placing him in the Bilibid, the Arroyo government via Romulo and the US ambassador Kenny made an agreement to house Smith inside the US Embassy - a clear violation of how laws are suppose to be implemented in these cases, since the US Embassy isn't suppose to be a jail for American nationals convicted in Philippine criminal courts.

this what precisely what everybody was afraid of the very day the letters of the VFA were made public. and it happened. since the case has become a precedent for similar future cases, it is very likely that the same scenario will happen for a crime even more serious than what allegedly traspired.

Naay brig sulod sa embassy bai . That is meant for those American citizens ( military or civilian ) working in the embassy or by any way connected to the state . The reason for these are for fair trial at its finest and real justice . SUma unsay nahitabo tong John Smith ? Although it appeared he raped that lady from Zamboanga but follow up investigations , it turned out nangwarta ra diay ang kanahan . Do you think JOhn Smith would live for a day kung naa siya sa new BIlibid knowing rape ang gi sang-at na kaso niya ? Hehehe .. and regardless of the issue and scenario , maski guilty pa ang subject .... why did our government agree with the agreement since these laws being implemented is part of the VFA agreement ? When Anti American rally and shout " GET OUT U.S. FORCES " , might as well include also " GET OUT PHILIPPINE GOVERNMENT " since kunsabo man kaha ni ang duha .

the lease is considerable, yes, but i think it is something that we can surely live without. there are other solutions for repaying the national debt, albeit tough ones.

True .... we survived right for another 20 or more years . But my question is , was our quality of life is better or worst compared 20 years or so ago ? generally speaking na lang ni ha because we will end as deep as panahon sa martial law man hehehe . What is worst , our debt is getting bigger , mahug ang interest ra ng gibayaran nato .

whether or not there is a huge difference is beside the point. the point is that these chemicals do not belong there and should have not been left there/placed there in the first place. somebody should be responsible, whether it be Kepco, Atlas, the Philippine government, or the US government. someone should clean it up, because it does not go away even if we dismiss it from our thoughts.

The point I am empahsizing is the issue of HAZMAT and not who is responsible for it . If the Subic and Clark bases are manned by the Philippine Navy and Airforce respectively , do we see any struggle fights , top of the world voicing outs etc ? maybe or maybe not but I am inclined to believed na wala . Sad but true , Americans maybe be capitalist but Filipinos are OPPURTUNIST .

you are probably right. but that does not really discourage the sailors much, does it?

Still , it takes 2 tango . Both parties are at fault hehehehe .

oh nothing that really made much of a dent. what happens is that the cancer rate in those areas are still higher than normal for the past few years. that should say a lot.

Philippine Senate Committee Report No. 237

The first link only caught my eye after checking the sites . I know it is a report but was it materialized ? Mahug man gud nga recipient sa composition of the year award ra ang author ana na report but walay action . Remember " it take two to tango " ? The irresponsible action of the Americans are to be partly blame also for our government .

Anyways , its never too late . Something can still be done but definitely its not the ANTI AMERICANS who can solve the problems .

[p26]

mas mayu nuon balik sila base diri. aron makurug sad intawon ang china..kay katawan ra ta sa mga insik, kay ato mga equipments karaan na kaayu. mayu to naay backup.

[denzpabz]

it's bad for chinese, it's good for PH, and also questionable for RH...

[katulz]

we never really learn, do we?

1.) the US military presence in the country is just a tip of the iceberg. its presence is not the protect philippine sovereignty, but to protect US state interests, primarily its military and economic assets, secondarily to act as a supposed deterrent against its 'enemies' (which brings us to the second point)

2.) both US and China know that they cannot resolve any conflict militarily. both depend on each other for survival: the US is the main market for China's manufactured goods. you upset one, you upset another. so why obsess over a hostile military relations between China and the US? and why should the US defend us against our 'enemy' China, if China is a bigger friend to the US than we ever could be?

3.) the US has an existing base in Okinawa, Japan, which is even closer to China. would it be wise to build another one, knowing the financial and political cost that it might incur?

4.) judging from the Okinawan experience, the locals have expressed their disdain to the presence due to controversies that they have managed to embroil themselves in. and even locals on the former Subic and Clark bases still have high incidences of cancer and other ailments allegedly due to toxic substances left behind, not to mention how the supposed 'jobs' that were generated in the city of Olongapo was generally inclined towards the red light district.

let's not focus too much on slogans and instead try and dig deeper.

1. Yes, it is to protect US interest, but we will also benefit from it.
Since US leave Subic Bay, it creates a power vacuum in southeast Asian region
China begin flexing its military muscles south, claiming big part of Spratly islands which cause big problems southeast Asian nations who also claim parts of the islands . Muslim Separatist group became more influential and potent.(MILF, AbuSayyaf).

2.China is not a bigger friend to US than us... US banned china from buying its advance weapons systems. And even members of NATO did the same.
And US wants to be part of Spratly Island talk that protested heavily by China.
China still heavily regulated beef import from US and still uses the mad cow disease excuse until now..

3. China cannot project power north because there is Russia, cannot project power west because there is India, east are Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. Only way
to go is southwards, with weak and poor southeast Asian nations
But if US put a base here, China's umbrella of influence will be reduce dramatically. Its all worth it..

4. I agree, the effects might be worse than in Okinawa. The US base in Japan survive until now because of incentives and compensation packages given by US to Japan. Good for economy very bad for people.

so am i favor of US base here?
NO
give the Chinese the Spartly island i don't wanna hear young girls rape by American pedophiles!!

[marx_yu]

gubat nsad ni..mo kusog nsad ang halin sa bala ug rocket ani..

dle pud lgeh ko UP sa mga plans sa US...kay for me cla ang terrorist, cla mag start sa war pra mahalinan cla ug weapons which is ilang main market. And ang US has motives which we just don't know... just watching zeitgeist in youtube made me realize that.

[noy.juan]

just watching zeitgeist in youtube made me realize that.

[kajrot1]

i dont see any negative things about the US bases bak her in our country kay weder we lyk it or not
both our AFP benefited they're visit.. mga pilipino lng naa lay mentality na "WE CAN STAND ALONE"
(bisag dili gd pasikat pa peeling maay lng)...

[noy.juan]

i dont see any negative things about the US bases bak her in our country kay weder we lyk it or not
both our AFP benefited they're visit.. mga pilipino lng naa lay mentality na "WE CAN STAND ALONE"
(bisag dili gd pasikat pa peeling maay lng)...

yeah no problem, well see when they change the constitution....

honestly the US dont have plans for permanent base here... they already said and they will say it again...

meeja: o may gawd dos pakin amirikan ar kaming bak...

[marx_yu]

@noy.Juan ....dle man nuon ko anti american..but i hate the motive of starting a war to earn a lot of money...