Kinsa jud imo gituohan kung diin jud tah gikan, ang Bible or Science?

[hitch22]

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@hitch22: the Bible or Jesus Christ never mentioned an "exact" date kanus-a ang Second Coming bru...

Yes, he didn't. But he did give a ballpark estimate. How then do we interpret such verses in Matthew?

When he told his disciples not to go to the cities of Israel till his Second Coming, he seems to be saying that the Second Coming was to occur within their lifetimes. And then the message gets even clearer when he followed with: "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." And finally he puts in the clincher: "THIS GENERATION shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

I don't know about you. I think Jesus was predicting the Second Coming to occur within the current generation of disciples..."THIS GENERATION..." and "Take no thought for the morrow" That's what he said. Morag klaro man cguro ang sabot nila.

Anyway, out of topic. I'll just agree to disagree.

[hitch22]

i go to school not to study evolution... and yes i accept changes in the field of computers, electronics, robotics, technology in general, etc...

Yes, of course, you're an engineering grad. Darwin's Theory of Evolution is not related to your course.

human evolution isn't part of the change... and won't be accepted yet... or ever...

You forgot to qualify that statement...."won't be accepted yet...or ever...by ME." It won't be accepted by you and others who feel the same way as you do about this issue. I'll appreciate and respect you for it if you just say that you believe your faith is incompatible with the Theory of Evolution...even if the overwhelming amount of evidence supports it. Just take this similar stance of Kurt Wise, a scientist with a B.A. from University of Chicago and a Ph.D. from Harvard:

Although there are scientific reasons for accepting a young earth, I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand.

In other words, you really don't need evidence or persuasion or credible sources that support the Theory. Your choice not to believe in the Theory of Evolution is not a matter of science...but a matter of incompatibility with your FAITH.

That's why at the very beginning, I was emphasizing the "non-overlapping magisterium" to separate the domains of religion and science.

[FAQ]

yep.. that was argument bru... that 60 to 70% of the world's population believe in God... was my statement incorrect? and also... the Islam also has their own version of Creation... 6 days man sad gani ang ila... but still... the point is... they believe that Somebody created this wonderful universe... not just with an accidental "BANG"... they may deny Jesus... but they believe in the Creation as well... dili man tuod sa Bible... pero sa Creator... i have a Muslim friend before in college... and we get along well... with respect and kindness... ayaw lang gud ug i-away ang duha ka religion coz in my faith... i don't condemn people nga lahi ang pagtuo... even the atheists... i also have one taiwanese atheist friend... he's one of my closest friends right now... and we never argued about this topic...

Although there are a lot of people believe in God, but just looking at the graph in that article I shared, you can see regardless of their religion, they mostly believe in Evolution over creation. Yes, no one can deny that you and muslim people believe in creationism -- you guys are living with fear and ignorance anyways.

Why don't you research which side is more accurate? Don't support an argument base on your personal opinion -- give us LEGIT proofs!!!! Quit posting bible verses as your supporting argument. It doesn't make any sense!!!!

[robert_papalid_ece]

@robert_papalid_ece

wheres the special effects video of you, angels, and your God?.....im waiting...... ni exist man kaha siya?

ang oil spill is caused by us, pero God can make miracles man kaha? turn water into wine, make lazarus come to life. Divide the red sea. these are amazing magic his doing.

how about a simple Oil Spill Clean Up?

im back... hmm... those miracles were done during the time when Jesus Christ came here... so better wait for the Second Coming na lang jud siguro to see more miracles... i agree with the other poster... Guitargod... "Lihok tawo jud"... and one thing... why are you asking God to clean the mess? he isn't your servant... but we are His servants... He is our shepherd... and we are his sheeps... not monkeys...

[robert_papalid_ece]

Although there are a lot of people believe in God, but just looking at the graph in that article I shared, you can see regardless of their religion, they mostly believe in Evolution over creation. Yes, no one can deny that you and muslim people believe in creationism -- you guys are living with fear and ignorance anyways.
sense!!!!

fearful we are... but ignorant... NO... you can't call a person ignorant if he doesn't believe in evolution... coz if you would... that means 60-70% of the world's population are ignorant... while the remaining 30-40% are intellects... di lang gud nato i-look down ang mga tawo nga lain ug pagtuo gud... like what you are saying... Muslims and Chrisitans are ignorant... coz i never did in your case... that's the spirit of Christianity... "Love your enemies"... i doubt it if loving one another is taught in evolution...

Why don't you research which side is more accurate? Don't support an argument base on your personal opinion -- give us LEGIT proofs!!!! Quit posting bible verses as your supporting argument. It doesn't make any

im done researching i guess... i told you... in college... i once believed in evolution and almost ignored the existence of God... well... during back then... i also believe in the Lochness monster and humans never went to the Moon...
btw... i am posting verses whenever they are necessary... e.g. when somebody posted a verse... and claims contradictions... i never insist on the verses of Genesis... which contains the story of Creation... coz i know... evolution-people don't believe in that... my answers are mostly pure human logic... you may call me later on illogical... but that's fine bru...

[FAQ]

fearful we are... but ignorant... NO... you can't call a person ignorant if he doesn't believe in evolution... coz if you would... that means 60-70% of the world's population are ignorant... while the remaining 30-40% are intellects... di lang gud nato i-look down ang mga tawo nga lain ug pagtuo gud... like what you are saying... Muslims and Chrisitans are ignorant... coz i never did in your case... that's the spirit of Christianity... "Love your enemies"... i doubt it if loving one another is taught in evolution...

No I did NOT say that. I was only referring to you (creationist believers) and muslims (another ridiculous religion). It's NOT true that "60-70%" are ignorant. Did you read the article? Most people in Europe believe in evolution -- they're mostly Christians!

Love your enemy? You're going OT man. Ok, love your enemy? What can you say about Dark Ages, Crusades, Northern Ireland conflict, witch trials, inquisition, and etc.?

i also believe in the Lochness monster and humans never went to the Moon... you may call me later on illogical... but that's fine bru...

There you go!! You're more "illogical" than I ever thought.

[robert_papalid_ece]

No I did NOT say that. I was only referring to you (creationist believers) and muslims (another ridiculous religion). It's NOT true that "60-70%" are ignorant. Did you read the article? Most people in Europe believe in evolution -- they're mostly Christians!
Love your enemy? You're going OT man. Ok, love your enemy? What can you say about Dark Ages, Crusades, Northern Ireland conflict, witch trials, inquisition, and etc.?

ooops... here we go again with tagging other beliefs as ridiculous... hahayz... i also feel the same way against evolution... but i never mentioned it... coz again and again... we have our own beliefs...
i apologize if i provided you with inaccurate numbers previously... but will you agree with me? that STILL... most people in the WORLD reject evolution? not just in Europe?

and what's with the Dark Ages? that's the time when Chrisitians were killed by non-Christians... of course the non-Christians were not taught of the "love your enemies" concept... can't get your point here...
the Crusades? as far as i know... this was a Catholic movement... Chrisitians and Catholics are different... i think you know that...

i also believe in the Lochness monster and humans never went to the Moon... you may call me later on illogical... but that's fine bru...

There you go!! You're more "illogical" than I ever thought.

why bro? i DID believe that humans NEVER went to the moon... naay sayop ana bru? that was the time when i saw documentaries and articles on the web... about the conspiracy "theory" saying that the Apollo 11 mission was all fake... if you... until now... believe that no human has set foot on the surface of the moon... feel free to create a separate thread about that... kung gusto lang nimo... and we'll discuss there... i was just mentioning the false beliefs that i had when i was still younger (including evolution, "for me" )... which i have now already corrected... thanks... unsaon pag-facepalm?

[hitch22]

It's time we put to rest the debate on the status of Darwin's Theory of Evolution as an explanation on the origins of livings species. I guess at this point everyone agrees that evolution happens at the cellular level. If not, you must've been hiding in the cave...correction: holed up in your room...since birth. Where the disagreement begins swings from one extreme to the other. A few would go to the extreme that no evolution ever occurred at all at the macro level, the animal kingdom. This is no longer contested among scientists. The resistance nowadays focus on human evolution, particularly the common ancestry of humans and apes. The objection is understandable in light of religious beliefs, but it is rather curious because if we are made up of cells as well (from head to toe), aren't we also a result of and subjected to the same evolutionary forces (genetic variation, mutation, and natural selection)?

If you scour over the internet, you'll get all sorts of write-ups...especially from religious websites claiming to have proofs of humans co-existing with the dinosaurs or arguments over supposedly a mountain of differences between us and the chimps. Take for example this quote from a Christian website:

If humans were 'only' 4% different this still amounts to 120 million base pairs, equivalent to approximately 12 million words, or 40 large books of information. This is surely an impossible barrier for mutations (random changes) to cross

They'd like to dramatize the 4% difference...120 million base pairs! 40 large books! Surely impossible to cross!

Well firstly, if you want to dismiss the common ancestry argument using the amount of genetic differences as basis, you must draw the line above which we can safely say chimps and humans are not closely related at all. Would 6% difference be that mark? Or 10%? Even with that difference (if ever somebody would come up with that study in the future) that would only put the common lineage higher up the evolutionary tree. In other words, you haven't overturned the fact that humans and all living species are related (albeit to varying degrees). How do you explain that relatedness except through the framework of common descent?

Secondly, the religous writer will never tell you facts that don't support their agenda. They'll never tell you if 95% or 96% represent a fair amount of difference to account for millions of years since our divergence from the chimps. Whereas studies published from the National Academy of Sciences have pegged the genetic similarities to between 95-98.5% and yet they'd say "it's somewhat surprising that humans and chimps are still classified into different genera" (source: Chimps Belong on Human Branch of Family Tree). Think about it. We've evolved separately from the chimps for millions of years. What would you expect to be a fair percentage of difference? They'll also never say that most of the big differences between human and chimpanzee DNA lie in regions that do not code for genes (see this article in Science Daily: Comparing Chimp, Human DNA).

So, where does mainstream science stand on this issue? Again, I think I'll have to defer to the position held by the National Academy of Sciences:

Studies in evolutionary biology have led to the conclusion that human beings arose from ancestral primates. This association was hotly debated among scientists in Darwin's day. But today there is no significant scientific doubt about the close evolutionary relationships among all primates, including humans.

I just want to post the Conclusion, because you'll get their unequivocal stance on this issue of Science versus Creationism:

Science is not the only way of acquiring knowledge about ourselves and the world around us. Humans gain understanding in many other ways, such as through literature, the arts, philosophical reflection, and religious experience. Scientific knowledge may enrich aesthetic and moral perceptions, but these subjects extend beyond science's realm, which is to obtain a better understanding of the natural world.

The claim that equity demands balanced treatment of evolutionary theory and special creation in science classrooms reflects a misunderstanding of what science is and how it is conducted. Scientific investigators seek to understand natural phenomena by observation and experimentation. Scientific interpretations of facts and the explanations that account for them therefore must be testable by observation and experimentation.

Creationism, intelligent design, and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life or of species are not science because they are not testable by the methods of science. These claims subordinate observed data to statements based on authority, revelation, or religious belief. Documentation offered in support of these claims is typically limited to the special publications of their advocates. These publications do not offer hypotheses subject to change in light of new data, new interpretations, or demonstration of error. This contrasts with science, where any hypothesis or theory always remains subject to the possibility of rejection or modification in the light of new knowledge.

No body of beliefs that has its origin in doctrinal material rather than scientific observation, interpretation, and experimentation should be admissible as science in any science course. Incorporating the teaching of such doctrines into a science curriculum compromises the objectives of public education. Science has been greatly successful at explaining natural processes, and this has led not only to increased understanding of the universe but also to major improvements in technology and public health and welfare. The growing role that science plays in modem life requires that science, and not religion, be taught in science classes.

Read the whole article (it's not very long) from the three links below from the National Academies Press. The article is entitled Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences

Page 23 - Human Evolution
Page 24 - Human Evolution
Page 25 - Human Evolution (Conclusion)

Once again, I do not expect religious people to believe in the Theory of Evolution, despite the amount of info, evidence, arguments and counter-arguments to its objections that had been laid down thus far in favor of it. I do admit that I've digressed in a couple of instances to citing biblical contradictions, and I apologize for that. My aim is basically to counterpose enlightenment to the bane. I doubt enough have been said already, but I'll visit this thread from time to time if any new obscurantist arguments surface.

Regards to robert_papalid_ece. Appreciate very much this exchange as well as self-restraint in carrying out a hotly-debated topic in as civilized manner as possible.

Cheers.

[FAQ]

ooops... here we go again with tagging other beliefs as ridiculous... hahayz... i also feel the same way against evolution... but i never mentioned it... coz again and again... we have our own beliefs...
i apologize if i provided you with inaccurate numbers previously... but will you agree with me? that STILL... most people in the WORLD reject evolution? not just in Europe?

What? No.

In European countries, including Denmark, Sweden, and France, more than 80 percent of adults surveyed said they accepted the concept of evolution.


This chart depicts the public acceptance of evolution theory in 34 countries in 2005.

See... in US alone, most major religions agree on Evolution. How much more in Europe and other continents.

and what's with the Dark Ages? that's the time when Chrisitians were killed by non-Christians... of course the non-Christians were not taught of the "love your enemies" concept... can't get your point here...

No. I thought you did your research already.

the Crusades? as far as i know... this was a Catholic movement... Chrisitians and Catholics are different... i think you know that...

Not until Martin Luther ditched the Catholic Church in 1597. But before that, there was no other Christian denomination. Again, I thought you did your research already man.

[Peenut]

@TS:

So talking about "GOD"

ni exist pud na ang Greek and Roman Diety diay?....
Still believe pud ana?.