Pope acknowledges church failures in abuse scandal

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

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@springfield

honestly lng sir noh, padung na unta mi mo file og case sa pari but before mi ni seek og help sa authority ky nagpa consulta mi sa taga sulod (preist). based lng sa among na experience noh, kay daghan man mi kaila nga mga pari and usa sa among parente ky pari mn pd, they advised us not to file a case cause magkapoy2x lng daw mi. mahulog ra sd daw na sa wala ky, based on our experience and what the other close priests told us, they (priest) tend to cover up the wrong doings of their members to protect the good image of the religion. hahaiz.

That is your statement and I cant do nothing about it . if we weight things now , who's fault would it be ? The PRIEST you guys accuse of swindling you guys or whatever or your PARTY who did nothing but should have done it .

@ HITCH22 ....

Spring, I have to point out that it is not the atheist community that's pursuing the child rape scandal. It's the Catholic community in Massachusetts. I'm just giving my observation.

I didnt mean anything of malice , I was only refering limited to the forums .

Is the Pope condoning a criminal? If he keeps covering up and protecting Bernard F. Law, then YES. Mind you, the Cardinal is wanted by the grand jury in Boston (click here to read). The Pope has to surrender him to authorities so he can face trial. That's what we have trials for, to determine guilt or innocence. A trial is not a conviction, in case you have forgotten that. It means there is probable cause to warrant a trial, and the jury will decide on the matter based on the evidence.

If that is the case ... why is it that ang Catholic community in Massachusetts can only do such thing like utilize the cyberworld and makes press releases . if we follow the logic of realistic scenario , do you really think they cant actually pursue things like file charges or coordinate with Interpol ? Ngano wala man ? kay if naa gud , it doesnt have to take the Holysee to cover the suspect up if he really did . Mind you , naay factions pdo within the CATHOLIC COMMUNITY in general . We will never know kay all we have are sources that are not considered RELIABLE . All the possibilities are there .

I hope people stop making excuses and blaming atheists if we give our comments about the child rape scandal. Stop pretending that priests and bishops are these white-as-snow angels. There's a reason why they call their followers a "flock of sheep" or some other livestock (actually, in Papua New Guinea, the priests call their congregation "swine", because the natives can't relate to a sheep). Look, shepherds take care of their flock, not because they love them, but because when time comes, they can fleece them and butcher them for their meat

The sad part is , there is more impact in butchering the sheperd than the sheep .

[hitch22]

^ ^ Spring, I think I've already responded to that Interpol issue that you keep bringing up. You don't give the abuse victims much credit, as much as you'd like to coddle these pedophiles. I'm sorry, but I find it annoying to hear someone putting up so much defense when all that is asked for is that these pedophiles stand trial. You seem to have made up your mind that these abuse victims just recklessly throw blame around. Well, the fact that they've filed charges in their local courts shows that they want an objective judgment on their cases. Do you think the justice system would simply render their verdict in favor of the abuse victims? Of course not. It decides on evidence and testimonies. In fact, given the power and money on the Vatican's side, I would think that it would be a tall order for the victims to win their cases.

Here's what I quoted from the Catholics for Choice website (click here):

It is worth noting that the Holy See's claims to statehood change depending on the circumstances. In recent years the Holy See has, when convenient, both asserted and renounced its statehood. Recently, and nearly simultaneously, the Holy See claimed statehood to ask for diplomatic immunity from s-e-x abuse cases in the United States while denying statehood to refuse cooperation with the International Criminal Court. Often, when denying its state status, the Holy See instead claims to be a religious institution, accompanied by demands that the First Amendment of the United States Constitution protect the actions of the church after claims that members of the hierarchy mismanaged allegations of sexual abuse.

Read those words carefully. Do you now understand why it's not a simple case of filing charges at the interpol? There are sophisticated diplomatic immunity clauses and sovereignty issues and international treaties that the Vatican can exploit to avoid facing trial. The interpol itself has limits on what it can do. Taken from the interpol website: INTERPOL’s constitution prohibits ‘any intervention or activities of a political, military, religious or racial character. You said so yourself that the Pope is a very powerful individual. And we are witnesses.

I've already said that Cardinal Law is wanted by the grand jury in Boston. That means charges have been filed and a trial awaits him there. The abused individuals did what they could in their limited power as ordinary citizens. And yet your heart bleeds for the powerful predators? For shame, Spring, for shame. All that is asked for is that these accused priests/bishops stand trial and let due process in the U.S. run its course. Let us have it and let the chips fall where they may.

[peewee_toot]

That is your statement and I cant do nothing about it . if we weight things now , who's fault would it be ? The PRIEST you guys accuse of swindling you guys or whatever or your PARTY who did nothing but should have done it .

did nothing? i dont think so. unsa mn d i tong pagconsulta namo sa mga pari ra pd? at least we know kng unsay pama-agi nila sa sulod about anang mga kaso2x. at least wala mi nagbayad2x unya wala rai mapadulngan ang kaso. hahaiz. wala jud tay bawt ana nila. sad truth...

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

^ ^ Spring, I think I've already responded to that Interpol issue that you keep bringing up. You don't give the abuse victims much credit, as much as you'd like to coddle these pedophiles. I'm sorry, but I find it annoying to hear someone putting up so much defense when all that is asked for is that these pedophiles stand trial.

First and foremost , I am not discrediting the side of the alleged victims and second , I am not coddling anyone at all for the sake of defending someone who I am in line with being a Christian . How can you call someone a PEDOPHILE if that subject havent stood trial yet ? You are already judging someone not because he or she is guilty or not but because he is a CATHOLIC PRIEST and its a norm for you guys to label such . I might sound generalizing and stereotyping but its the sad fact .

You seem to have made up your mind that these abuse victims just recklessly throw blame around.

No I dont . I cant even imagine being a victim , people close to me , love ones being victims also but dont discount the hard fact also that PRIEST of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH are easy targets of EXPLOITATION by just anyone else , unayon man gani sa kabaro usahay .

Well, the fact that they've filed charges in their local courts shows that they want an objective judgment on their cases. Do you think the justice system would simply render their verdict in favor of the abuse victims? Of course not. It decides on evidence and testimonies. In fact, given the power and money on the Vatican's side, I would think that it would be a tall order for the victims to win their cases.

Dont also forget that we are now talking about the HOLYSEE here and not the issue of the accused bishop anymore . Like I said , you are simply emphasizing and implying that the POPE is CUDDLING and HARBORING a CRIMINAL . The link you gave doesnt sound one like that , only yours .

Read those words carefully. Do you now understand why it's not a simple case of filing charges at the interpol? There are sophisticated diplomatic immunity clauses and sovereignty issues and international treaties that the Vatican can exploit to avoid facing trial. The interpol itself has limits on what it can do. Taken from the interpol website: INTERPOL’s constitution prohibits ‘any intervention or activities of a political, military, religious or racial character. You said so yourself that the Pope is a very powerful individual. And we are witnesses.

How can you be a witness ? Anyway ... there is a PRO and a CON on that matter . It saves lives on priest being EXPLOITED and the guilty gets away . What are the odds and ratio of the 2 ? I for one has heard and confirmed more than 10 issues of priest being exploited here and abroad and I call that a true witness even if it doesnt speak for the whole , pila ra gud na ang 10 kabuok compared sa mga nadunggan nako na abuses nila some are only talk of the town . I am not saying they are all saints either but by just comparing numbers , maka ingon ka na wala lage ko kahibalo ana gi ingon niom SPRING . It only justifies that we know things from what we read and not what we know . To conclude , its not certain yet if its right or wrong .

I've already said that Cardinal Law is wanted by the grand jury in Boston. That means charges have been filed and a trial awaits him there. The abused individuals did what they could in their limited power as ordinary citizens. And yet your heart bleeds for the powerful predators? For shame, Spring, for shame. All that is asked for is that these accused priests/bishops stand trial and let due process in the U.S. run its course. Let us have it and let the chips fall where they may.

If there is a need for that to happen , I am all in for that but something must be really going on . Do we all here really think that the HOLYSEE is that stupid and dumb ? He has the best consultants , advisers etc in the world . Afterall , if salaan gani gyud siya , its him who is going to eternal damnation while you just rot and thats it .

@PEEWEE TOOT ....

did nothing? i dont think so. unsa mn d i tong pagconsulta namo sa mga pari ra pd? at least we know kng unsay pama-agi nila sa sulod about anang mga kaso2x. at least wala mi nagbayad2x unya wala rai mapadulngan ang kaso. hahaiz. wala jud tay bawt ana nila. sad truth...

Walay bawt ? I dont think so . makapahawa man gani ta ug presidente , kana bang parokyano lang . Like I said you guys did nothing to pursue your intentions for justice . That is based only from your good end of briefing .

[hitch22]

How can you call someone a PEDOPHILE if that subject havent stood trial yet ? You are already judging someone not because he or she is guilty or not but because he is a CATHOLIC PRIEST and its a norm for you guys to label such . I might sound generalizing and stereotyping but its the sad fact.

No I dont . I cant even imagine being a victim , people close to me , love ones being victims also but dont discount the hard fact also that PRIEST of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH are easy targets of EXPLOITATION by just anyone else , unayon man gani sa kabaro usahay .

Dont also forget that we are now talking about the HOLYSEE here and not the issue of the accused bishop anymore . Like I said , you are simply emphasizing and implying that the POPE is CUDDLING and HARBORING a CRIMINAL . The link you gave doesnt sound one like that , only yours .

How can you be a witness ? Anyway ... there is a PRO and a CON on that matter . It saves lives on priest being EXPLOITED and the guilty gets away . What are the odds and ratio of the 2 ? I for one has heard and confirmed more than 10 issues of priest being exploited here and abroad and I call that a true witness even if it doesnt speak for the whole , pila ra gud na ang 10 kabuok compared sa mga nadunggan nako na abuses nila some are only talk of the town . I am not saying they are all saints either but by just comparing numbers , maka ingon ka na wala lage ko kahibalo ana gi ingon niom SPRING . It only justifies that we know things from what we read and not what we know . To conclude , its not certain yet if its right or wrong .

Spring, I have to point out once again that the Vatican itself admitted that they indeed have a child rape problem on their hands. They even went on saying that the problem is due to the admission of homosexuals in priesthood (which, not surprisingly, the gay community took offense on). They've paid out hush money as part of the SOP of Crimen Sollicitationis (click here to find out what Crimen Sollicitationis, the hush-hush policy, is all about). Heck, even a Vatican exorcist went on press to say that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican" (click here to read).

Here's what Father Gabriele Amorth, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years said:

"When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true – including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia."

...another example of satanic behaviour was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".

You think this cover-up thing is just MY baseless opinion? Well, check this out: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests'.

Here's what Fr. Tom Doyle, who was sacked for criticizing the church's handling of child abuse claims, said (PLEASE READ CAREFULLY):

"What you have here is an explicit written policy to cover up cases of child sexual abuse by the clergy and to punish those who would call attention to these crimes by the churchmen.

"When abusive priests are discovered, the response has been not to investigate and prosecute but to move them from one place to another. So there's total disregard for the victims and for the fact that you are going to have a whole new crop of victims in the next place. This is happening all over the world."

Patrick Wall, a former Vatican-approved enforcer of the Crimen Sollicitationis in America, told the programme:

"I found out I wasn't working for a holy institution, but an institution that was wholly concentrated on protecting itself."

Dili na gikan nako ha. These are coming from priests and Vatican insiders. If you keep saying all these child rape cases and cover-ups are baseless, I'll keep backing it up for you. Holy See is not covering these crimes up? EXPLAIN Crimen Sollicitationis.

The words "Catholic priest" and "pedophilia" have become synonymous, not because we made it a norm but because these things have become prominent in Church history (just check out the cases in the 20th century). Sometimes, one would think if Catholic priests are working hard for the monopoly of pedophilia.

To be fair, I agree that there are cases where people just file suits against priests just to exact money from them. But get this: it's not an automatic thing. Common sense tells you that you only pay money when you think you can't win the case, i.e. you cannot defend against the evidence against you. Plus, I don't think a priest would make a good target for these things. Wealthy celebrities are often the ones who are victims of these types of lawsuits. Take Michael Jackson, for example. Well, at least, Michael Jackson faced trial. That's the big difference.

If there is a need for that to happen , I am all in for that but something must be really going on . Do we all here really think that the HOLYSEE is that stupid and dumb ? He has the best consultants , advisers etc in the world . Afterall , if salaan gani gyud siya , its him who is going to eternal damnation while you just rot and thats it .

Nobody's saying that the Holy See is stupid and dumb...more like the Holy See is actively covering up.

Spring, I hope you take all my comments in stride. I mean you no offense by being critical of the Vatican/Pope in its handling of the global child rape scandal.

Peace.

[Tirong-say]

Then file the case and put the priest in jail, it is as simple as that.
Are all the priest the same, NO I dont think so,
ask Sigmund Freud and you will know,
and perhaps the answer would be each and everyone of us is unique.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Spring, I have to point out once again that the Vatican itself admitted that they indeed have a child rape problem on their hands.They even went on saying that the problem is due to the admission of homosexuals in priesthood (which, not surprisingly, the gay community took offense on).

And once again , that cant be denied but arent we talking about FR. BERNARD LAW which you said was cuddled by the pope and seek assylum and protection in Vatican ?

They've paid out hush money as part of the SOP of Crimen Sollicitationis (click here to find out what Crimen Sollicitationis, the hush-hush policy, is all about). Heck, even a Vatican exorcist went on press to say that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican" (click here to read).

The POPE can do that but it is not in effect . Have you noticed also the last time MEDIA was truthful in their EXPOSURES ? Thats what you call hate the game not the player . Too bad I dont have to know something because I have read it in the net , worst from links that qualify as online tabloids except for BBC .

Here's what Father Gabriele Amorth, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years said:

Whats the relevance of an EXCORCIST having something to say ?

You think this cover-up thing is just MY baseless opinion? Well, check this out: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests'.

Here's what Fr. Tom Doyle, who was sacked for criticizing the church's handling of child abuse claims, said (PLEASE READ CAREFULLY):

Patrick Wall, a former Vatican-approved enforcer of the Crimen Sollicitationis in America, told the programme:

Did you even justify your source ? Have you read the reaction and replies of the people below the news ? Not to be biased because they favored what i think is going on but you can clearly sense something is wrong in the picture .

Dili na gikan nako ha. These are coming from priests and Vatican insiders. If you keep saying all these child rape cases and cover-ups are baseless, I'll keep backing it up for you. Holy See is not covering these crimes up? EXPLAIN Crimen Sollicitationis.

if I have to point it out again , it has its PROS and CONS . The EXPLOITED PRIEST gets comfort and the GUILTY gets away . I am not saying mas daghan ang gi exploit , I dont know about you if you are ready to sya mas daghan ang nang ABUSE . ANyways ... ngano mga na issue diri sa Cebu alone abou *** SCANDALS , ngano wala man sila sa VATICAN karon or have utilized the CRIME SOLLICITATIONS ? if you see the pattern , it only applies to personalities or thos epeople who hold positions and are important figures in the community . Thats how you bring down something .

The words "Catholic priest" and "pedophilia" have become synonymous, not because we made it a norm but because these things have become prominent in Church history (just check out the cases in the 20th century). Sometimes, one would think if Catholic priests are working hard for the monopoly of pedophilia.

You just basically said it is a NORM because since when was this SYNONYMOUS ? Become PROMINENT ? mas labawng binuang . I am not saying its not , but obviously as ANTI CHRIST and ATHEIST , these are all about it kay alangan man ug mo bilib mo sa POSITIVE IMPACTS . You will never see that because it defeats the purpose of being an ATHEIST .

To be fair, I agree that there are cases where people just file suits against priests just to exact money from them. But get this: it's not an automatic thing. Common sense tells you that you only pay money when you think you can't win the case, i.e. you cannot defend against the evidence against you. Plus, I don't think a priest would make a good target for these things. Wealthy celebrities are often the ones who are victims of these types of lawsuits. Take Michael Jackson, for example. Well, at least, Michael Jackson faced trial. That's the big difference.

MJ will never be labeled as a PEDOPHILE because it is not the norm . he was just a plain victim . On the other hand , sa priest , they will go down the drain straight because they were labeled as such . Kana bitaw ma stereotype dayon and it i wrong .

Nobody's saying that the Holy See is stupid and dumb...more like the Holy See is actively covering up.

It is the same thing if we really think he is doing that . He is the HOLYSEE , he should never do that .

Spring, I hope you take all my comments in stride. I mean you no offense by being critical of the Vatican/Pope in its handling of the global child rape scandal.

Peace.

I have no problem with you papi . usahay man gud boring ang forums if wala si HITCH22 hehehehe . ANyways .... rock on !!

[FAQ]

Y'all should check this site ...
BishopAccountability.org - Documenting the Catholic Sexual Abuse and Financial Crisis - Data on bishops, priests, brothers, nuns, Lawrence Murphy, Pope Benedict, Ratzinger, Bertone, CDF, Brendan Smyth, Ireland

[Count of Monte Cristo]

there has never been a priest arrested, convicted, sentenced because the worst punishment they can receive is to be transferred to another location, and there, they will be at it again.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Y'all should check this site ...
BishopAccountability.org - Documenting the Catholic Sexual Abuse and Financial Crisis - Data on bishops, priests, brothers, nuns, Lawrence Murphy, Pope Benedict, Ratzinger, Bertone, CDF, Brendan Smyth, Ireland

I am also appalled on what does this tell us :

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