Water as engine fuel anyone?

[leo_trams]

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Hydrogen cars ready to roll ? for a price - Green Machines- msnbc.com

..this link will provide the answer nganong di practical ang hydrogen powered engines..$4000 for the tank..spending lot of money to be environment friendly..

so, are you saying mas practical ang water powered engine kay sa hydrogen powered engine?

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[bcasabee]

Water powered engine was used before the discovery of petroleum and the invention of the combustion engine. I'm sure you know about steam powered boats and steam powered trains. They are of course water based, though the prime energy source is still coal or wood. The idea is to use a very large "takore", put the water inside the takore, heat the takore using coal or wood until the water inside boils and produces steam and finally use the steam to move the train or the boat.

On the other side: The only thing I can say about our very own Dingle is that it was a hoax. The stored heat energy in water is nothing compared to fossil fuels so a combustion engine using water is not even close to science fiction. The only practical way of harnessing the power of water is through mechanical means like the hydro electric power plants we have in the country. Maybe in the future, there will be rechargeable batteries that can store megawatts of electricity, we can use it to power our cars. We only need to force power companies to produce power from clean and environment friendly means.
Maybe in the future, a way to harness power from water directly to run our car will be possible, but right now I consider the idea a fairy tale.

[kobmat]

just a thought...before we say dagko nga tangke ang kinahanglan etc...

if you have 1 liter of water....and you extract Hydrogen from that 1 liter of water...what will be the volume of the Hydrogen extracted from that 1 liter of water?

1000 mL of water * 1 g/ml(@ 25 C) = 1000 g / 1 mol/((1*2) + ( 16) g = 55.56 mols H2O / 1 L H2O

to split water:

Reaction: 2H2O => 2H2 + O2

So:

55.56 mols of H2O = 2 mols H2 / 2 mols of H2O = 55.56 mols of H2

55.56 mols of H2 (2 g / 1 mol H2) = 111 g of H2

H2 Volume varies a lot depending on temperature and pressure so:
The only two data on density i found is as follows.

@0 C, 1 atm = H2 density is 0.08988 g/L;

111 g H2 ( 1 L / 0.08988 ) = 1235 Liters H2 / 1 Liter H2O


@-252.87 C = H2 Density is = 68 kg / m3

111 g H2 ( 1 kg / 1000 g) ( 1 m3 / 67.8 kg) ( 1000 L / m3) = 1.63 Liter H2 / 1 Liter H2O

I think from those numbers H2 is i think harder to compress than say oxygen.

[vernie]

A system with an on demand hydrogen and oxygen from water is already available and is used to run a car for several years na, daghan lang wala motuo until naa na sa ilang atubangan. You don't need a big and expensive tank for longer storage kay on demand ra man, your basic fuel is actually stored as water only. It is not important kung ang uban di motuo, what is important is the system is working.

Ang uban gigamit ang hydrogen and oxygen from water for welding or cooking. Kanang mga tao nga kusog kaayo moingon nga kinahanglan ka ug dako nga energy, mao na sila ang wala kasulay first hand nga nakapatrabaho ug maayo nga system. Ang usual pud mahitabo, majority will right away believe those with no experience at all.

Hunahunaa nalang kuno kung naa sa market nga ang itubil nimo tubig nalang then lupigan pa nimo ang gasoline or diesel engine cars in terms of km/liter of water, unya barato ra that majority can afford to buy. What do you think will happen? The more walay motuo, mas maayo aron walay gubot.

[moklo]

Water powered engine was used before the discovery of petroleum and the invention of the combustion engine. I'm sure you know about steam powered boats and steam powered trains. They are of course water based, though the prime energy source is still coal or wood. The idea is to use a very large "takore", put the water inside the takore, heat the takore using coal or wood until the water inside boils and produces steam and finally use the steam to move the train or the boat.

On the other side: The only thing I can say about our very own Dingle is that it was a hoax. The stored heat energy in water is nothing compared to fossil fuels so a combustion engine using water is not even close to science fiction. The only practical way of harnessing the power of water is through mechanical means like the hydro electric power plants we have in the country. Maybe in the future, there will be rechargeable batteries that can store megawatts of electricity, we can use it to power our cars. We only need to force power companies to produce power from clean and environment friendly means.
Maybe in the future, a way to harness power from water directly to run our car will be possible, but right now I consider the idea a fairy tale.

How sad nman bro nga mo ingon lang ka nga hoax lang ang na imbento sa tong igsuon nga c Dingle, Kung ikaw cya bro makahimo ba ka ug paka ulaw sa imong kaugalingon ngadto sa daghang tao....... About this line bro """"The only practical way of harnessing the power of water is through mechanical means like the hydro electric power plants we have in the country"""" sayup jud kaayo ka bro, basin ala pka kasulay sa imong pag ka highskul about electrolysis.... Daghan paagi sa pag patay ug Ering bro.... Mao bitaw nga segi pa padayun ang mga tao sa pag kaplag ug mga butang nga wala pa natu mahibaw-e, kung mechanical lang imo saligan bro d ta mo asinso ana!!.... be open minded bro!!!!

PEACE BRO

[kobmat]

A system with an on demand hydrogen and oxygen from water is already available and is used to run a car for several years na, daghan lang wala motuo until naa na sa ilang atubangan. You don't need a big and expensive tank for longer storage kay on demand ra man, your basic fuel is actually stored as water only. It is not important kung ang uban di motuo, what is important is the system is working.

Ang uban gigamit ang hydrogen and oxygen from water for welding or cooking. Kanang mga tao nga kusog kaayo moingon nga kinahanglan ka ug dako nga energy, mao na sila ang wala kasulay first hand nga nakapatrabaho ug maayo nga system. Ang usual pud mahitabo, majority will right away believe those with no experience at all.

Hunahunaa nalang kuno kung naa sa market nga ang itubil nimo tubig nalang then lupigan pa nimo ang gasoline or diesel engine cars in terms of km/liter of water, unya barato ra that majority can afford to buy. What do you think will happen? The more walay motuo, mas maayo aron walay gubot.

I think you should first read up on the first and second law of thermodynamics rather than accusing people that they don't know what they are saying cause they don't have the experience.

This is your reaction when doing electrolysis of water:

2H2O => 2H2 + O2 [Electrolysis step]

and this is the combustion of hydrogen

2H2 + O2 => 2H2O [Combustion step]

As you notice it is sort of a reverse of the other. Even assuming 100% efficiency, the electrolysis step requires an equal amount energy as the combustion step, leaving no power to get the car moving. Where would the extra energy come from to get the car going? If it is going it must be getting its power from some invisible source.. This is in clear violation of the first law of thermodynamics, Energy cannot be created or destroyed it can only be transformed from one form to another. In reality though, the second law of thermodynamics lower the efficiency of such a process to about 20% - 25%.

Just a thought, we should be talking about mathematical and scientific proofs here rather than wild conspiracy theories.

[vernie]

Ok ra na, imoha pud na views ug mao pud na ang imong nakita kung asa ka dapit karon. Lahi pud ang akoang nakita ug na experience kung asa ko karon and the good thing is working setup ang akong gihisgotan, dili theory.

From experience, daghang di ma explain dayon nga hitabo but we know it is working, have been replicated successfully and we are starting to understand the things nature is trying to tell us and later we came up with the theory part.

Discussions about violation of the first law of thermodynamics is always repeated over and over again when talking about electrolysis (efficiency, running an engine), in the end there are no laws violated, only missing variables not accounted. These variables are usually what the other party did not consider or noticed for they do not see it from their own field of view.

I won't argue with your math and with your science, what I can share are things that I know that is working.

I think you should first read up on the first and second law of thermodynamics rather than accusing people that they don't know what they are saying cause they don't have the experience.

This is your reaction when doing electrolysis of water:

2H2O => 2H2 + O2 [Electrolysis step]

and this is the combustion of hydrogen

2H2 + O2 => 2H2O [Combustion step]

As you notice it is sort of a reverse of the other. Even assuming 100% efficiency, the electrolysis step requires an equal amount energy as the combustion step, leaving no power to get the car moving. Where would the extra energy come from to get the car going? If it is going it must be getting its power from some invisible source.. This is in clear violation of the first law of thermodynamics, Energy cannot be created it can only be transformed from one form to another. In reality though, the second law of thermodynamics lower the efficiency of such a process to about 20% - 25%.

Just a thought, we should be talking about mathematical and scientific proofs here rather than wild conspiracy theories.

[rodsky]

...what I can share are things that I know that is working.

The Cardiff Giant also "looked" genuine...

-RODION

[leo_trams]

1000 mL of water * 1 g/ml(@ 25 C) = 1000 g / 1 mol/((1*2) + ( 16) g = 55.56 mols H2O / 1 L H2O

to split water:

Reaction: 2H2O => 2H2 + O2

So:

55.56 mols of H2O = 2 mols H2 / 2 mols of H2O = 55.56 mols of H2

55.56 mols of H2 (2 g / 1 mol H2) = 111 g of H2

H2 Volume varies a lot depending on temperature and pressure so:
The only two data on density i found is as follows.

@0 C, 1 atm = H2 density is 0.08988 g/L;

111 g H2 ( 1 L / 0.08988 ) = 1235 Liters H2 / 1 Liter H2O


@-252.87 C = H2 Density is = 68 kg / m3

111 g H2 ( 1 kg / 1000 g) ( 1 m3 / 67.8 kg) ( 1000 L / m3) = 1.63 Liter H2 / 1 Liter H2O

I think from those numbers H2 is i think harder to compress than say oxygen.

So, I guess, Hydrogen should be extracted only from water if kinahanglanon na, para maka save sa storage/fuel tank.

And how does our current automobile engines handle the Hydrogen fuel?
How big is the Hydrogen extractor/separator/reactor?

Any working system there?

Care to post any simplified working diagram?


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[leo_trams]

I won't argue with your math and with your science, what I can share are things that I know that is working.

So, care to share the things that you know that are working?
Well, if it is working there should be at least a simplified diagram of your thing that is working.


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