Mass Killing of Dolphins (Kindly Watch This)

[rodsky]

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Whales and dolphins cannot be farm bred and farm raised. Any analogies made between the two practices is off base.

The Japanese consumption of whales and dolphins cannot be justified through tradition or any other excuse. They refuse to put any limit to their catches and even go so far as the government excusing their appetite by saying that yes they limit commercial catches the rest is in the name of science. Tradition cannot be used as an excuse because the practice of eating whales and dolphins is a very recent phenomenon. It is comparable to Americans saying the McDonalds and the Big Mac is tradition along the lines of turkey on Thanksgiving. There is no "small time" hunting of whales in Japan. When you hunt in Antarctic waters for your catches, you can no longer consider yourself a small time fisherman thousands of miles away from your home. It is also worth noting that dolphins and whales are not the only marine species that the Japanese population is in danger of wiping out. The Atlantic blue fin tuna (which also cannot be farm-bred or open ocean bred) can also be added to the list even though other species such as the yellow fin are in more abundance and many will say taste as good. Eating these threatened species is a fad and unless the Japanese government co-operates with the International community, the populations of these species will crash and have drastic effects up and down the food chain. This is not about being a whale hunger or extreme applications of conservation ... this is about responsible management of international resources. Russians and Americans have come to an agreement on pollack catches in the North Pacific to make sure fishing there is sustainable, why can't the Japanese?

I'm glad you've raised these points, vern. Most of the posts and feelings raised in this thread are mainly caused by the direct visual repulsion that people had when viewing those YouTube videos. After viewing them, they feel they want to join the bandwagon of being "concerned" about whaling, when in fact, they absolutely don't know anything about the goings on re management of international resources and whatnot. I just felt I had to raise that point to counter posts and remarks like "Kagrabe pod niana nila oy!" which seem to have been made out of whim and direct visual repulsion rather than a true understanding of what's going on.

-RODION

[Dorothea]

a squeamish, animal-lover friend told me about this clip and i asked her: why are we saying that such a thing is bad, if we allow pigs to be slaughtered and to be feasted upon?

What is the difference between Dolphins and Pigs? = convention? which is no different from tradition.

why do we have to protect them? is it for their own sake, is it for our own sake, or is it just good that we have to refrain from killing?

What is the justification for saying that a Dolphin's life is worth saving, while we slaughter cattle everyday, what is the difference?

i always ask tree-huggers that. so what is the difference? Or we just squeamish with the fact that 'fun-loving, good-loving, creatures of the sea are being killed = a matter of public perception?

Well, because pigs and cattles are replenishable resources. We can breed them in the millions. And as Vern pointed out, dolphins and whales cannot be farm bred and/or farm raised. That's the difference.

[The_Child]

Well, because pigs and cattles are replenishible resources. We can breed them in the millions. And as Vern pointed out, dolphins and whales cannot be farm bred and/or farm raised. That's the difference.

or have we not tried to domesticate dolphins? is not because it cannot be done, rather it was not done.

And the point is, basing in your statement, we are saving dolphins because we see them as objects or utilities that we could use for present and future consumption. Whether for aesthetics or scientific purposes, the whole point of saving them is because we need to use them?


if such is so, the issue is not ethical, whether its good or bad, but rather is it economically sound to kill them or not. There is no sound ethical justification here why we should save the dolphins? (douglas adams points out that they are actually aliens, but thats beside the point )

[harvz86]

IMO pigs are different from whales, pigs are domestic animals not wildlife.

[rodsky]

Just a thought....

If we are really going on this track of "what should and what shouldn't be eaten" then the only true and absolute way to absolve humanity from all this supposed guilt is to totally stop eating anything organic (whether it be plants or animals) and start creating food artificially. After all, we already know what nutrients and chemicals are necessary for the sustenance of human life.

Why stop with whales and dogs? Why eat anything at all? Perhaps one day in the distant future, this artificial food thing can actually be possible, but for now, you're all primed to go back to the lechon table and grab a bite, right?

ADDENDUM:

Going back to what Brownprose said about slavery. It's exactly the same thing--so, after all our various theories and orations about "freedom" and "work exploitation", why do we still have a human workforce? Where are the robots? I know, totally offtopic, but just trying to point out the fact, that if humans only truly CHOOSE to change, they can, but they resist--yes they are open to change, but for some reason, they still want to do certain things and preserve the way certain things are "done". Don't ask me why, but that's how human beings are--very selective.

-RODION

[The_Child]

does it mean that if we domesticate an animal it would be ok to slaughter it compared to those in the wild which we are obligated to protect? (as pointed out)

what is the connection, what makes an animal less special when it is domesticated from that of the wild? A fence and domesticated feeds, does ti change the fact that domesticated or not, they still possess some worth or not?


we are again guilty of speciesism. (and yes there is such a word, coined by peter singer, if im not mistaken - animal liberation)

[Dorothea]

or have we not tried to domesticate dolphins? is not because it cannot be done, rather it was not done.

And the point is, basing in your statement, we are saving dolphins because we see them as objects or utilities that we could use for present and future consumption. Whether for aesthetics or scientific purposes, the whole point of saving them is because we need to use them?


if such is so, the issue is not ethical, whether its good or bad, but rather is it economically sound to kill them or not. There is no sound ethical justification here why we should save the dolphins? (douglas adams points out that they are actually aliens, but thats beside the point )

We are saving dolphins because they're cute. They jump up and down in the air, and are very playful. Also they use sonar to communicate which does have kind of an alien sound but it makes them more intelligent than pigs who just squeak and squeal to annoy us. They do make good bacon though. Dolphins are so fascinating to watch, esp when they get ready to hunt for food. They are amazing. Pigs aren't amazing to watch, just amazing to eat. They stink too.

[vern]

@rodsky If people feel sorry for dolphins and whales because of the graphic violence in these videos, then their feelings are misplaced ... and that truly understates the nature of the problem which solves nothing. Cuteness should not decide whether a species is saved or not. A lot of species that are neither cute or visible are worthy of conservation.

or have we not tried to domesticate dolphins? is not because it cannot be done, rather it was not done.

No. The answer is it CANNOT be done with today's science and if it could be done, the Japanese would have already done it. The simple fact is, whales and dolphins cannot be farmed when it takes years for them to reach adulthood. If it cannot be made economical, it cannot be farmed. The Japanese have tried to farm blue fin tuna and have failed to produce any with size, taste and numbers to wet their market's appetite. How well do you believe they will do in farming whales and dolphins?

[Dorothea]

does it mean that if we domesticate an animal it would be ok to slaughter it compared to those in the wild which we are obligated to protect? (as pointed out)

what is the connection, what makes an animal less special when it is domesticated from that of the wild? A fence and domesticated feeds, does ti change the fact that domesticated or not, they still possess some worth or not?


we are again guilty of speciesism. (and yes there is such a word, coined by peter singer, if im not mistaken - animal liberation)

The_Child: Why are you puffing that death stick? Do you not value your life enough to stop smoking that crap? Do you not value the lives of those who come close to you and are exposed to your deathly aroma?

Mao nang daghan kang mga existentialist nga pangutana, epekto na sa imong sigarilyo. If you do not value your life enough to want to save yourself from cancer, then surely you wouldn't even spend a minute thinking about saving a gentle, fun-loving dolphin.

Hahaha! Joke ra na ha.

Mao na ang moral lesson ani nga estorya. Mag sugod na gani ta ug hisgot aning save this, save that...wala'y kahumanan. Hangtod maabot na ta ani hinuon sa save the cockroach, save the rat, save the mosquito etc etc

[The_Child]

The_Child: Why are you puffing that death stick? Do you not value your life enough to stop smoking that crap? Do you not value the lives of those who come close to you and are exposed to your deathly aroma?

Mao nang daghan kang mga existentialist nga pangutana, epekto na sa imong sigarilyo. If you do not value your life enough to want to save yourself from cancer, then surely you wouldn't even spend a minute thinking about saving a gentle, fun-loving dolphin.

Hahaha! Joke ra na ha.

Mao na ang moral lesson ani nga estorya. Mag sugod na gani ta ug hisgot aning save this, save that...wala'y kahumanan. Hangtod maabot na ta ani hinuon sa save the cockroach, save the rat, save the mosquito etc etc

existentialism is soo passe. Death stick, dont mind the pic, the guy - my god, actually died of cancer. parisians!

no the point here, is that, what makes the dolphin special? that we ought to save it. What is the justification of saving it?

fine. perhaps it is not possible to domesticate the dolphin, but the point is, what is our justification for saving it? where does our obligation to save it stem from?

from our own fancy.

cheers!