Mars Lander - Successful! Congratz to mankind

[fingolfin]

---

@rod

I know, you'll say "Yes, but not at the expense of taxpayers' money."

.. don't put words in my mouth. This is not about taxpapers' BS im talkin about here, it's about the clear and present problems the world is tackling. And let me quote your thoughts:

If our admiration for brilliant minds like Dr. Hawking will only be limited to nods and "oohs and ahhhs" when he talks about his theories and lectures, then our lack of action on his request will effectively spell an uncertain future for humanity.

.. is not being interested in space exploration a means of uncertainty for us humans ?? c'mon, don't be ridiculous. You might have forgotten that physicists don't care about what's happening around them, they're only focus is to get their theories proven and make a name for themselves.

.. that dream of living in space is, like a said, four or five human life-time to be realized, while our current problems will be felt 10 years from now, when the polar ice caps melt.

.. and to make it short, that's source of the problem, the dreaming of space, when the waking reality is here and now - global warming.

[giddyboy]

SCIENCE - ETHICS = MURDER

EMOTIONS - LOGIC = FAITH

LIFE - DREAMS = JOB
--- from tv series Eureka

do u think these lines would apply on this topic?

[rodsky]

@rod
...that physicists don't care about what's happening around them, they're only focus is to get their theories proven and make a name for themselves.

I truly can't believe you said that. You must not be aware of who Carl Sagan is then.

YouTube - One of Carl Sagan's most pertinent messages for humanity


Even Gore himself touts Sagan as one of his heroes.

I have several friends who are physicists. One is V. Mag-usara who is now working for a startup company developing and assembling efficient and cost-effective solar power cells in Batangas. She turned down a lot of top-caliber executive jobs because she feels her skills in physics would be more useful in trying to find alternate sources of energy. As both a physicist and a global warming education advocate, she would be one of the first people who will get insulted by your remark. *shakes head*

.. and to make it short, that's source of the problem, the dreaming of space, when the waking reality is here and now - global warming.

Dreaming of space is a source of the problem? Wow. I guess that means we have to discount the problem of various policies (with political backing of the ruling parties in their respective countries of course) enforced by the G8 countries that are effecting current global economic conditions then. I guess this means we have to ignore the problem of massive deforestation due to government policies in Brazil and other tropical forest rich countries. I guess this means we have to ignore the problem of U.S. Foreign Policy in Iraq and Darfur then. I guess this means we have to ignore the problem of massive worker exploitation in various worldwide. I guess this means we have to ignore the problem of massive corruption in our country. Yes let's ignore all these because like you said, "dreaming of space, that's the source of the problem". Don't you preach to me like you're the only person in the world who knows about the problems of the world sir--I sincerely don't know what you're trying to prove here--that people of iStorya are ignorant about Global Warming? If you have that sort of attitude then the more that people will shy away from whatever point you were trying to pull into the light--again, I know this personally because I've been giving lectures on global warming to students, and unless you've undergone the same thing, I really feel as if you're downplaying my own contributions to educate the people about this problem.

You are in a very choosing mode, sir. You took several points of my discussion which you felt were "worthy" and "tackle-able" and chose to focus on them. You deliberately skipped the NEO issue, you skipped talking about the vested interests of some "go-green" groups (I have a friend based in L.A. who works for a recycling center, so I know what the politics behind this one. Personally he's now feeling guilty of what their doing) and lobbyists. Knowing about an issue like Global Warming and educating people about it is one thing--but educating people and then trying to sell them a deal to "greenify" their house and business, with some newfound "green" technology (all for a bargain price!) is another. And I'm not even going to talk about what "go-green" politicians are doing. That's almost like a church telling people they have sinned and making them guilty of sinning, and thus making them monetarily pay (I forgot the Catholic term for this, it was in Noli or Fili) the Parish to help "absolve themselves of sin".

And I truly and seriously can't believe you don't consider taxpayers as a source of the problem? You are an advocate to inform people about global warming right? Well have you forgotten that the US is a major (perhaps on top of the list) contributor to this problem? And right now the main reason for this is that the US taxpayer is the worlds' top consumer of goods. And that this attitude of consumerism effectively creates the reason why the big corporations will say "See? The consumer needs us! Without us, the consumer will be miserable!" So has to have tons of factories (that pollute the air) to produce things like Havanaias slippers, and whatever thing that the likes of Paris Hilton is wearing or what Oprah tells people to buy. They consume a lot of electricity (thus burning coal) for their great cities and for their non-stop-fun nightlives. The American Taxpayer consumes a lot of resources this great world has to offer, and yet you want to discount their impact on global warming. Dahil nga sa consumerism nila, grabe ang trade deficit nila and thus they are now facing various financial crises...buti nga sa kanila.

As a final point...

.. is not being interested in space exploration a means of uncertainty for us humans ?? c'mon, don't be ridiculous.

Who's being ridiculous? You were the one who came into this thread to "ridicule" an honest and decent job that some people are employed in, who are sincerely doing their jobs as scientists and engineers, who are doing it by themselves (because they know other people are doing their own thing, and they have absolutely no problems with that), and peacefully conducting science. Ano ba problema mo? Hindi ka naman affected directly if may nag-landing na spacecraft sa Pluto ah--pero ang nagkapag-tataka, para din naman sa future natin ito eh--scientists are doing it for us, even if you (obviously) don't believe their sincerity. So why is it that you have to dump your rant on an honest thread that sincerely wants to educate kids about space and space exploration on a more granderscale?

Again, I don't know who broke and trampled on your dreams as a child, but my dreams are still intact, and that's why I choose to educate and share what I know whenever I can, because I still believe in them. Coming into a peaceful thread and yapping around telling people what their doing is "ridiculous" is not going to earn you the right to be right.

-RODION

[rodsky]

There's a nice debate over at CNN.COM about this whole issue of whether man should focus on "earthbound problems" or should humankind really put more effort on space exploration.

The big debate: Should we head for the stars? - CNN.com

It's nice to know that a majority of the comments and arguments support space exploration, and each of these posters feel relieved that other people feel the same way. I feel relieved myself.

-RODION

[giddyboy]

Space Exploration & Research is a noble endeavor for mankind. It is one way to satisfy our thirst for "knowledge" & "truth". Without space research, we wouldn't have known how stars evolve. Without space research, we would still have believed that the Earth is the center of the universe and the Sun revolves around it...and so on and so forth.

i guess i've watched too many Star Trek movies...hehe

[rodsky]

UPDATE:

Water ice confirmed...
SPACE.com -- Water Ice on Mars Confirmed
NASA - Phoenix

And, there may yet be bigger news in the coming days/weeks, based on this insider blog...
LiveScience.com Blogs Leonard David

-RODION

[rodsky]

deleted: accidental double post

[AMD_infinium05]

hmm cool debate.

[Vince Russo]

Gosh, Rodsky... You presented such articulate replies to fingolfin's hastily written posts that I kinda became a "fan" of yours. I dug this thread because no one mentioned pinoys or claimed the Mars landing as being a Filipino accomplishment. It is an American undertaking/accomplishment, and it felt good for a minute not getting Bush-bashed on istorya (for a change). But darn it, you had to drift into a "blame the US" mode and cite US taxpayers fueling consumerism, bogarting coal to provide electricity for our "nightlife", our capitalism, us being the worst climate polluters etc etc etc... Man, couldn't you just have said, "those cats at NASA really did something amazing this time"...?

[rodsky]

Gosh, Rodsky... You presented such articulate replies to fingolfin's hastily written posts that I kinda became a "fan" of yours. I dug this thread because no one mentioned pinoys or claimed the Mars landing as being a Filipino accomplishment. It is an American undertaking/accomplishment, and it felt good for a minute not getting Bush-bashed on istorya (for a change). But darn it, you had to drift into a "blame the US" mode and cite US taxpayers fueling consumerism, bogarting coal to provide electricity for our "nightlife", our capitalism, us being the worst climate polluters etc etc etc... Man, couldn't you just have said, "those cats at NASA really did something amazing this time"...?

Isn't the mere fact that I actually keep updating this rather "ignored" thread enough reason to suggest that I do personally believe that NASA does "amazing things"? And if I irked you with those remarks then sincere apologies--I am merely expressing my views on that matter--isn't that what democracy is all about? Being able to express your views? Would you rather that I blindly praise something even though deep inside, there are things that bother me about the whole setup? I'd rather be miserably honest than comfortably compromising.

-RODION