Enlightenment

[tolstoi]

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^^@brian_d..tell us about your views on origin.

[Gwynhuever]

@brian_d nahan ko sa imo post bro da.... :mrgreen:

[d_guy1024]

This thread can go on and on and thier's no resolution. Christianty is a thiestic religion, Buddhism isnt't. Let's just leave it at that.Debating and quoting pages from the Bible and Pali or Mr. Ikeda's writing will lead to nowhere. No one is more valid than the other. Let's just respect each other's point of view.

For some the quest is salvation then go strive to be saved. For other's its the end of the cycle of reincarnation, then strive to do that too. All these debates and discussions of what is the truth and what isn't will do nothing but sidetrack you from the path of either salvation or enlightenment whichever you choose.

I agree with you, but my sole purpose of this thread is for educational, nothing else. If somebody would get angry with me, I apologize in advance.

Also, my quest is not the end of cycle of reincarnation, or should I say rebirth(most appropriate term). Buddhahood or enlightenment or nirvana is not a destination, it's a process. Life is eternal, it transcends from the beginningless past to the infinite future. There are many sects of Buddhism also, they differ because the sutra they are using and also the original teachings were mixed with the tradition of the place where Buddhism was introduced. My Buddhism is based on the highest teaching of the historical Buddha, Siddharta, which is the Lotus Sutra. All other Buddhist sects knows the Lotus Sutra as the highest teaching, but did not adopt it because they are satisfied already with the pre-Lotus sutras, or some other reasons. All pre-Lotus sutras are partial truths which points to the ultimate truth, the Lotus. If a Buddhist scholar understand the Lotus Sutra, and read all other sutras, one would know that the Lotus itself is a complete teaching.

By the way, the teachings of the first historical Buddha were compiled and called sutras. There are so many many sutras, these were so called the 80 thousand teachings.

[d_guy1024]

^^@brian_d..tell us about your views on origin.

please read my previous post on the three truths. I know it's hard to understand because of our culture and tradition here. Because we are taught on the "WHO" concept for so many hundreds of years...

[d_guy1024]

Haven't you ask yourself if the creation is indeed true? if it is, then what created your so called somebody/something which trigger the existence? Nobody knows.

THIS somebody/something already gave humanity a hint about HIS existence when HE sent HIS son Jesus Christ on earth.

What's this hint?

The origin of the universe can be explained by the simultaneity of cause and effect concept and the three truths expounded by the Buddha.

i believe these were all concepts deviced by Buddha [thu enlightenment?], but when being expounded by his followers will just lead into much deeper confusions and uncertaintes..fact here is, no matter how many times Buddha may have enlightened himself during his lifetime, he still could not grasp the enigma of our origin...earthly beings are bounded on the earthly stuffs..

btw..just wanted to clarrify sumthing here..WHO ENLIGHTENED BUDDHA in the first place?

if that is your thoughts, I respect you. Buddhism teaches that our life is one with the life of the universe, and all phenomena, including life itself is the manifestation of the Mystic Law. If you can perceived the workings of this Mystic Law, as the Buddha does, you will understand your own life and the life of the universe as well. Buddhism teaches to perceive your own life. The "Who looks outside, dream. Who looks inside, awaken" qoute of the famous modern philosopher Carl Jung clearly parrallels to that of Buddhism. In contrast, other teachings tend to seek the life of someone outside from themselves, which they only know little about it. This is where we parted ways, I know, the bottom line of all religions is for us to be happy. In that case, religious strife should be avoided under all circumstances.

Going back to your question on WHO enlightened the Buddha, you have asked this because of your preconceived notion that there is SOMEONE supernatural out there. The Buddha understand LIFE through just understanding his own life. And he teaches others to do the same.

Moreover, basing on the three truths, “Life is indeed an elusive reality that transcends both the words and concepts of existence and non-existence, yet exhibits the qualities of both.Â* It is the mystic entity of the Middle Way that is the ultimate realityâ€� (The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, p.4).

Psalm 104:1-24 says:
Bless the Lord, O my soul! O Lord my God, thou art very great! Thou art clothed with honour and majesty. … Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: He maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind. … Thou best set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
V. 10. He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills. …
V. 13-14. He watereth the hills from his chambers:
The earth is satisfied with fruit of thy works. He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; …
V. 19-20. He appointed the moon for seasons: The sun knoweth his going down. Thou makest darkness, and it is night; …
V. 24. O Lord, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom host thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.

This is your belief, I've been to this also. I respect it.

[tolstoi]

Going back to your question on WHO enlightened the Buddha, you have asked this because of your preconceived notion that there is SOMEONE supernatural out there. The Buddha understand LIFE through just understanding his own life. And he teaches others to do the same.

Buddhist always says that their faith 'transcends' from a personal God, but if we'll take a look on how the first Buddha [Gautama Siddharta] was born, we can find some bizaare phenomena which is not atypical of the God concept..Buddha perceived to be as mythical and powerful that he was quoted saying "i'm the chief of the world" at the time when he was still a new born...but the things that really caught my attention regarding Buddha's life are these:

- He emerged from his mother's side without causing her any pain. [seems like the Jesus-Mary concept]
- The earth shook as he was born [perhaps a mere coincidence that an earthquake may have occured during the time he was conceived?]
- As a newborn, he was miraculously showered with water [a baptismal from up above?]
- He also stated that this would be his last reincarnation [so he knew already that he had past life/lives..and he could predict his future?...sounds like an omniscient being don't you think?

....and during his so-called 'ENLIGHTENMENT"...

- During the first watch of the night, he developed the ability to recall the events of his previous reincarnations in detail. [an OMNISCIENT BEING?]
- During the second watch, he was able to see how the good and bad deeds that many living entities performed during their lifetimes led to the nature of their subsequent reincarnation into their next life [hmmm..an OMNIPRESENT BEING?]
- During the third watch, he learned that he had progressed beyond "spiritual defilements," craving, desire, hatred, hunger, thirst, exhaustion, fear, doubt, and delusions. He had attained nirvana. He would never again be reincarnated into a future life [wow..the Alpha and the Omega?]

....no matter how you see this things differently, still the life that he perceived to have was nowhere to be found in this world..the BUDDHA that you idolize/worship is not atypical to the God we revere.

[tolstoi]

What's this hint?

that Jesus was sent by HIS father from heaven..a subtle proof of God's existence.

The Buddha understand LIFE through just understanding his own life

like i said, the way Buddha understand his own life was not really earthlike or worldly..he must have extraordinary powers in order to achieved those kind of enlightenment which i enumerated above.

[brian_d]

This is what I adhere to. For others whose beliefs are opposite to this, I respect that. =)



Do Buddhists believe in a god?


No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origins in fear. The Buddha says:

Gripped by fear people go to sacred mountains, sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines.
Dp. 188

Primitive humans found selves in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes were constantly with them. Finding no security, they created the idea of gods in order to give them comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha's teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.

The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god's words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god's nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.

The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin of the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god's power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.


But if there are no gods how did the universe get here?


All religions have myths and stories which attempt to answer this question. In ancient times, when humankind simply did not know, such myths were adequate, but in the 20th century, in the age of physics, astronomy and geology, such myths have been superseded by scientific fact. Science has explained the origin of the universe without recourse to the god-idea.


What does the Buddha say about the origin of the universe?


It is interesting that the Buddha's explanation of the origin of the universe corresponds very closely to the scientific view. In the Aganna Sutta, the Buddha describes the universe being destroyed and then re-evolving into its present form over a period of countless millions of years. The first life formed on the surface of the water and again, over countless millions of years, evolved from simple into complex organisms. All these processes are without beginning or end and are set in motion by natural causes.


You say there is no evidence for the existence of a god. But what about miracles?


There are many who believe that miracles are proof of god's existence. We hear wild claims that a healing has taken place but we never get an independent testimony from a medical office or a surgeon. We hear second-hand reports that someone was miraculously saved from disaster but we never get an eyewitness account of what is supposed to have happened. We hear rumors that prayer straightened a diseased body or strengthened a withered limb, but we never see X-rays or get comments from doctors or nurses. Wild claims, second-hand reports and rumors are no substitute for solid evidence and solid evidence of miracles is very rare. However, sometimes unexplained things do happen, unexpected events do occur. But our inability to explain such things does not prove the existence of gods. It only proves that our knowledge is as yet incomplete. Before the development of modern medicine, when people didn't know what caused sickness people believed that god or the gods sent diseases as a punishment. Now we know what causes such things and when we get sick, we take medicine. In time when our knowledge of the world is more complete, we will be able to understand what causes unexplained phenomena, just as we can now understand what causes disease.


But so many people believe in some form of god, it must be true.


Not so. There was a time when everyone believed that the world was flat, but they were all wrong. The number of people who believe in an idea is no measure of the truth or falsehood of that idea. The only way we can tell whether an idea is true or not is by looking at the facts and examining the evidence.


So if Buddhists don't believe in gods, what do you believe in?


We don't believe in a god because we believe in humanity. We believe that each human being is precious and important, that all have the potential to develop into a Buddha - a perfected human being. We believe that humans can outgrow ignorance and irrationality and see things as they really are. We believe that hatred, anger, spite and jealousy can be replaced by love, patience, generosity and kindness. We believe that all this is within the grasp of each person if they make the effort, guided and supported by fellow Buddhists and inspired by the example of the Buddha. As the Buddha says:

No one saves us but ourselves, No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path, but Buddhas clearly show the way.
Dp. 165

[tolstoi]

hmmm..so brian_d and d_guy are the same person?

It is interesting that the Buddha's explanation of the origin of the universe corresponds very closely to the scientific view. In the Aganna Sutta, the Buddha describes the universe being destroyed and then re-evolving into its present form over a period of countless millions of years. The first life formed on the surface of the water and again, over countless millions of years, evolved from simple into complex organisms. All these processes are without beginning or end and are set in motion by natural causes.

kinda amusing how this article stated that the buddhism's view on 'origin' corresponds with that of the scientific view..when in contrast, most scientists believes that the UNIVERSE started with a 'BANG'-the big Bang theory..i must say that this article is already flawed from the start hence no point in reading it further.

[d_guy1024]

Going back to your question on WHO enlightened the Buddha, you have asked this because of your preconceived notion that there is SOMEONE supernatural out there. The Buddha understand LIFE through just understanding his own life. And he teaches others to do the same.

Buddhist always says that their faith 'transcends' from a personal God, but if we'll take a look on how the first Buddha [Gautama Siddharta] was born, we can find some bizaare phenomena which is not atypical of the God concept..Buddha perceived to be as mythical and powerful that he was quoted saying "i'm the chief of the world" at the time when he was still a new born...but the things that really caught my attention regarding Buddha's life are these:

- He emerged from his mother's side without causing her any pain. [seems like the Jesus-Mary concept]
- The earth shook as he was born [perhaps a mere coincidence that an earthquake may have occured during the time he was conceived?]
- As a newborn, he was miraculously showered with water [a baptismal from up above?]
- He also stated that this would be his last reincarnation [so he knew already that he had past life/lives..and he could predict his future?...sounds like an omniscient being don't you think?

....and during his so-called 'ENLIGHTENMENT"...

- During the first watch of the night, he developed the ability to recall the events of his previous reincarnations in detail. [an OMNISCIENT BEING?]
- During the second watch, he was able to see how the good and bad deeds that many living entities performed during their lifetimes led to the nature of their subsequent reincarnation into their next life [hmmm..an OMNIPRESENT BEING?]
- During the third watch, he learned that he had progressed beyond "spiritual defilements," craving, desire, hatred, hunger, thirst, exhaustion, fear, doubt, and delusions. He had attained nirvana. He would never again be reincarnated into a future life [wow..the Alpha and the Omega?]

....no matter how you see this things differently, still the life that he perceived to have was nowhere to be found in this world..the BUDDHA that you idolize/worship is not atypical to the God we revere.

He was not born a Buddha, but became a Buddha by His own efforts.