The Church is responsible for over population in the Phils.

[revax the great]

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educate the people, which is the obligation of the government to its people.. but with the influence of the church on government leaders?

The goverment is doing its best to eradicate population explosion, they are introducing alternatives to minimize this problem. So why we should blame our goverment... You know the main problem is not the church or our goverment, but its self-dicipline ok...

[yokam]

@JX: Bro, I actually mean discipline at a general level and not merely what is being taught or the ideologies of the church. People can't even follow very simple traffic rules and how much more the sexual urge. And since people are more inclined to follow the church rather than being practical to use contraceptives because it's not "moral" according to the church.

I can see and appreciate that both the church and government are doing their very best to control and put a stop in the seemingly never ending and fast rise in the population but the problem is that their methods don't agree with each other.

[INFRACTION]

go multiply and SUBDUE it....

[ichor_82283]

responsibilidad sa tao iya kaugalingon,
responsibilidad sa gobyerno ug simbahan ang tao,
ang simbahan gbuhat na iya trabaho pagtudlo sa tao,
ang gobyerno nga gnahan mobuhat sa iya trabaho ug obligasyon sa mga tao
but.an sa simbahan..
hehe..

Partly, reponsibilidad sa govt ug church ang tao. This isn't totally true on moral issues.

To the topic:

There can never be solutions on taking a look on what has been done. We are now overly populated.

People are now more open to artificial family planning. We are now at the age of standing to what our minds and budget dictates. Although, many are still adhering to the teaching of the church, I believe they all have the "say" to the matter. It is now left on their right to exercise whether to follow the church, their view of artificial family planning, and even their personal stand on it, for I can never say that a decision influenced by others is a personal stand.

What we ought to do, to the other many who believes in using contraceptives we have the right to exercise and to tell (educate) others it's beneficiality and even to the extent of its practicality.

We should not be lukewarm of our stand. We can't just pinpoint the church for influencing the decision of their followers and take a mud swing to the government for inadequately doing its part. We should be firmly standing to what we believe is just and practical to at least help in the over population of our country.

We can even be active in joining drives to propagate the need to slow down in multiplying instead of just joggling the "ought to do" of the chuch, of the the govt, or to both, of the people or the combination of the three.

This is active response.

Thus, I say let's not be harsh in pointing out that the church is solely to be blame.
We also have our choice.

[JX]

@revax the great

I disagree, i dont see the philippine government doing its best regarding the issue of population explosion. I would agree if you say the chinese government is doing their job regarding the issue, one example is the "one child policy" policy.

In the Philippines, the government’s policy to curb population growth through contraceptives and other artificial methods has been met with criticism by the Catholic Church, which is particularly against abortion. The government realizes the need to curb population growth so as not to create new pockets of poverty but it cannot openly advocate the use of contraceptives so as not to court the ire of the Church. The government’s program may be good for the moment. But when it runs out of human resources like Singapore, Japan and South Korea, it may take a 180-degree turn on its policy.

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/...70510opi5.html

@yokam

You did point out having self discipline to abstain from having ***. That would fall to abstinence programs approach.
And its not that people are more inclined to follow the church, after all, pre marital *** does happen all the time even with more or less 80% of filipinos are catholic. What im pointing out is that, majority of the filipino people cant afford artificial contraceptives in which the government should be giving for free.
And i also dont see the church nor the government is doing their best regarding the matter. One good and very simple example is the quiapo church which has become almost synonymous with abortion. Even just outside the church there's the abortion clinic. And yet until now, its still there. And also the government, where financial support from rich countries could have been received, but were discouraged because it seems the government is not that serious of solving the problem.

@ichor_82283

Partly, reponsibilidad sa govt ug church ang tao. This isn't totally true on moral issues.

I was referring to obligations..

People are now more open to artificial family planning. We are now at the age of standing to what our minds and budget dictates.

Yes, more people are now open to artificial family planning but much more are yet to afford it.

Although, many are still adhering to the teaching of the church, I believe they all have the "say" to the matter. It is now left on their right to exercise whether to follow the church, their view of artificial family planning, and even their personal stand on it, for I can never say that a decision influenced by others is a personal stand.

Ah yes, I agree, many or most follow what the church says, especially our catholic politicians and leaders wherein their concern is the support of the church in the coming elections instead of the publics health and standard of living with regards to the matter.
To follow or not to follow, but the question is, can everybody afford it?

What we ought to do, to the other many who believes in using contraceptives we have the right to exercise and to tell (educate) others it's beneficiality and even to the extent of its practicality.

practicality.. yes, the government knows that, yet they follow the church's stand..

We should not be lukewarm of our stand. We can't just pinpoint the church for influencing the decision of their followers and take a mud swing to the government for inadequately doing its part. We should be firmly standing to what we believe is just and practical to at least help in the over population of our country.

I am helping in my own little ways, i am starting within myself.
But here in this forum, i see it fit to point at the church for going against atificial contraception programs of the government and wherein the government also has no backbone regarding the matter.

We can even be active in joining drives to propagate the need to slow down in multiplying instead of just joggling the "ought to do" of the chuch, of the the govt, or to both, of the people or the combination of the three.

This is active response.

Thus, I say let's not be harsh in pointing out that the church is solely to be blame.
We also have our choice.

Education is already there, but the resources are not..
I say to free services regarding artificial contraception programs rather than overpriced lamp posts, etc.
And i also say to true separation of the state and the church.
Let the government do its affairs and let the church preach the word of God.

If you read some of the posts, there was an argument regarding the thread title..

[yokam]

You did point out having self discipline to abstain from having ***. That would fall to abstinence programs approach.

No, it's the other way around, abstinence should fall under the self discipline approach.

And its not that people are more inclined to follow the church, after all, pre marital *** does happen all the time even with more or less 80% of filipinos are catholic. What im pointing out is that, majority of the filipino people cant afford artificial contraceptives in which the government should be giving for free.

That's exactly my point, engaging in very irresponsible ***. I also don't think that majority of the people can't afford contraceptives. Condoms doesn't cost more than 10 or 20 pesos right? We hear many people saying "Wa man lami ang magcondom". The mentality of the people is towards the pleasure and not towards the responsibility, and with the government's inefficiency in handing out those contraceptives for free, people should cooperate in their own little ways to at least minimize the rise of the population. Di lang kay magsalig sa gobyerno or sa simbahan.

[JX]

No, it's the other way around, abstinence should fall under the self discipline approach.

With regards to the issue, its not the other way around:

abstinence - act or practice of refraining from indulging an appetite

self-control, self-denial, self-discipline - the act of denying yourself; controlling your impulses.
-http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abstinence

hehe, how can abstinence fall in the self discipline approach? You need abstinence to have self discipline? or self discipline to have abstinence?

That's exactly my point, engaging in very irresponsible ***. I also don't think that majority of the people can't afford contraceptives. Condoms doesn't cost more than 10 or 20 pesos right? We hear many people saying "Wa man lami ang magcondom". The mentality of the people is towards the pleasure and not towards the responsibility, and with the government's inefficiency in handing out those contraceptives for free, people should cooperate in their own little ways to at least minimize the rise of the population. Di lang kay magsalig sa gobyerno or sa simbahan.

Look at the people from poverty/below poverty line where the poplulation explosion is best observed and not on people who can buy 10 or 20 peso condoms. We also have other methods of artificial contraception like vasectomy or tuba ligation, wherein, naa ang lami nga mwla sa condom, but is that given for free?
Ug naa lng lagi unta lain mabuhat why magsalig pa man sa gobyerno, ug naa lng lagi unta trabaho mahatag ang gobyerno, wla man, especially to the poverty / below poverty line people. Maglisud man gani ang degree holder pangita ug trabaho, ang wa kaeskwela na ba kaha.
Magsalig sa simbahan? care to elaborate on that?

[yokam]

With regards to the issue, its not the other way around:

abstinence - act or practice of refraining from indulging an appetite

self-control, self-denial, self-discipline - the act of denying yourself; controlling your impulses.
-http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abstinence

hehe, how can abstinence fall in the self discipline approach? You need abstinence to have self discipline? or self discipline to have abstinence?

LOL. Mao gani self-discipline because how can you abstain if you don't have discipline in the first place. How can one control one's self if he/she doesn't have discipline?

Look at the people from poverty/below poverty line where the poplulation explosion is best observed and not on people who can buy 10 or 20 peso condoms. We also have other methods of artificial contraception like vasectomy or tuba ligation, wherein, naa ang lami nga mwla sa condom, but is that given for free?
Ug naa lng lagi unta lain mabuhat why magsalig pa man sa gobyerno, ug naa lng lagi unta trabaho mahatag ang gobyerno, wla man, especially to the poverty / below poverty line people. Maglisud man gani ang degree holder pangita ug trabaho, ang wa kaeskwela na ba kaha.

That's why people should also help. Di magsalig sa simbahan or gobyerno because in the first place, the government and the church are not the ones engaging in ***, it's the people. By what you have posted, it showed how incompetent the government is and how ideal the church is. Mao na'y problema diri sa atoa diri sa 'Pinas karon, people are not that willing to sacrifice and maghuwat lang kung unsa'y ihatag, especially those way below the poverty line. I've was living in a province for more than 10 years and I know a lot of families who's got more than half a dozen of children yet the parents are sustaining them by mere minimum wage (200+ per day during that time). Ask them why daghan kaayo sila ug anak, their usual reply is "bendisyon sa Ginoo". If all the people have that kind of mentality coupled with a very inefficient government, then I'd say good luck to the Philippines. Discipline and responsibility goes hand in hand, if one doesn't have discipline, for sure, he/she doesn't know what responsibility is.

"Ask what you can do for your country and not what your country can do to you". In our own little ways, it's a big help for our country already.

Magsalig sa simbahan? care to elaborate on that?

By taking everything what the church has been saying. Faith and common sense are two different things yet they should go together. Moingon ang simbahan nga "go and multiply", nagmultiply gyud toud. . Good thing in the urban areas and for rich and middle/average class people because they're more practical, but those people who are not too educated and below the poor are inclined to follow what has the church been saying, taking everything literally. I got this info through first hand experience after living in Masbate for more than 10 years. Ingon ana gyud ang mentality sa mga tao. And 6 years after I left, same problem. Those children grew up and what, naa ra sa kilid kilid sige ug panigarilyo, tambay ug inum kuyog ilang mga amahan. Where's the responsibility in that?

It's ok to have children as long as one can support all of them and not support nga mapakaon lang. Support that means giving them a comfortable and good life and a good future.

[JX]

LOL. Mao gani self-discipline because how can you abstain if you don't have discipline in the first place. How can one control one's self if he/she doesn't have discipline?

Mao lagi, "regarding the issue", ang self-discipline/self-control ningpaubos sa abstinence-programs-approach, not the other way around..

That's why people should also help. Di magsalig sa simbahan or gobyerno because in the first place, the government and the church are not the ones engaging in ***, it's the people. By what you have posted, it showed how incompetent the government is and how ideal the church is. Mao na'y problema diri sa atoa diri sa 'Pinas karon, people are not that willing to sacrifice and maghuwat lang kung unsa'y ihatag, especially those way below the poverty line. I've was living in a province for more than 10 years and I know a lot of families who's got more than half a dozen of children yet the parents are sustaining them by mere minimum wage (200+ per day during that time). Ask them why daghan kaayo sila ug anak, their usual reply is "bendisyon sa Ginoo". If all the people have that kind of mentality coupled with a very inefficient government, then I'd say good luck to the Philippines. Discipline and responsibility goes hand in hand, if one doesn't have discipline, for sure, he/she doesn't know what responsibility is.

wla man na'y problema kung makasustinar, even both my parents come from large families, but back then, makapalit pa man by sentimos, karon?
Layo ra kaayo ang cost of living in the province than in the city's.
And also, moingon ka di magsalig sa government ug church kay di man sila nag.engage sa ***.. so same as moingon ka nga ang teenager nga momabdos dli magsalig sa parents kay dli man ang parents ang ni.engage sa ***?
These things happens, and ang solution nga nakita sa gobyerno, kontrahan sa simbahan.

"Ask what you can do for your country and not what your country can do to you". In our own little ways, it's a big help for our country already.

Unya ang trabaho sa gobyerno pra sa welfare sa mga tao? Sayon ra sa imo makasulti because you did not come from below poverty line. Take for example, the broadband deals(multi-million dollars?!), lamp posts.. costed millions.. Pro ang contraception nga naa pa gani motabang gkan sa ubang nasod, gpasagdan lng.. Kay ngano, wla'y makuha? lolz

By taking everything what the church has been saying. Faith and common sense are two different things yet they should go together. Moingon ang simbahan nga "go and multiply", nagmultiply gyud toud. . Good thing in the urban areas and for rich and middle/average class people because they're more practical, but those people who are not too educated and below the poor are inclined to follow what has the church been saying, taking everything literally. I got this info through first hand experience after living in Masbate for more than 10 years. Ingon ana gyud ang mentality sa mga tao. And 6 years after I left, same problem. Those children grew up and what, naa ra sa kilid kilid sige ug panigarilyo, tambay ug inum kuyog ilang mga amahan. Where's the responsibility in that?

and you think nidaghan ang tao because the church said "go and multiply"? Tungod na kay di mapugngan sa tao ang gibati. Ug tungod kay di man jud mapugngan ang gibati, pugngan nlang ang pagmabdos.

It's ok to have children as long as one can support all of them and not support nga mapakaon lang. Support that means giving them a comfortable and good life and a good future.

and you think *** is all about procreation purposes? hehe..

[yokam]

Mao lagi, "regarding the issue", ang self-discipline/self-control ningpaubos sa abstinence-programs-approach, not the other way around..

This is it. Does that mean mag una pa ang pag abstain than having discipline? What do you mean by "ningpaubos"?

wla man na'y problema kung makasustinar, even both my parents come from large families, but back then, makapalit pa man by sentimos, karon?

And mine too. My father came from a family of 11 children yet all of them are now professionals. Mao lagi na karon, nagkamahal na ang mga palitonon karon and everything is going up so rapidly except ang sweldo sa tao. It's actually a reason why all of us should be more responsible and practical kay pwerteng lisura na. Even some middle/average families are sometimes having a hard time making ends meet, how much more ang pobre who barely eats 2 meals or worse just a meal a day.

Layo ra kaayo ang cost of living in the province than in the city's.
And also, moingon ka di magsalig sa government ug church kay di man sila nag.engage sa ***.. so same as moingon ka nga ang teenager nga momabdos dli magsalig sa parents kay dli man ang parents ang ni.engage sa ***?
These things happens, and ang solution nga nakita sa gobyerno, kontrahan sa simbahan.

That's why ni pinpoint ko ug disiplina because the government and church are not there all the time to keep an eye on everybody, same is through with parents with their teenage children. Kung mamabdos ang anak, is it entirely the parent's fault?

Unya ang trabaho sa gobyerno pra sa welfare sa mga tao? Sayon ra sa imo makasulti because you did not come from below poverty line. Take for example, the broadband deals(multi-million dollars?!), lamp posts.. costed millions.. Pro ang contraception nga naa pa gani motabang gkan sa ubang nasod, gpasagdan lng.. Kay ngano, wla'y makuha? lolz

Mao gani, because we're having a very incompetent government, we have to take initiative to at least somehow help solve the problem. People are blaming the government for unemployment, yet sila mismo di mangita ug trabaho. See the irony? Same is through with the population explosion, people are criticizing and waiting for any government action yet continuously engaging in irresponsible ***. Ang gisaligan nga gobyerno wala'y ayo, ang tao utro di mo-cooperate, ang resulta, pwerteng nindota, cute babies.

and you think nidaghan ang tao because the church said "go and multiply"? Tungod na kay di mapugngan sa tao ang gibati. Ug tungod kay di man jud mapugngan ang gibati, pugngan nlang ang pagmabdos.

Go and ask the poor kay i-refer dayun ka ana nila sa Bibliya, ingnon ka nga "blessing na sa Ginoo", a very typical defense mechanism of how irresponsible parents are, unya ang anak pwerteng hilak sa kilid kay pwerteng gutuma dayun wala'y gikaon tibuok buntag ug hapon. Pugngan ang pagmabdos? How I wish, but sad to say, ang atong gisaligan nga gobyerno pwerte ka wala'y ayo. And people continuously criticize them yet at the same time engaging in unprotected and irresponsible *** kay di lagi mapugngan ang gibati. Mao na'y problema sa tao, gusto lang pirmi sayun ug hayahay.

and you think *** is all about procreation purposes? hehe..

No, but it should be done with responsibility. Di kay tira lang kung manginit.