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  1. #301

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus


    Quote Originally Posted by ketllac View Post
    mag palaban man dayon kag authority.sabta ang science sa radiocarbon dating ug iyang reliability.
    Aw.. abi nako ganahan ma kat-on sa explanation sa other side of story.. Sorry.

  2. #302

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by biano View Post
    Aw.. abi nako ganahan ma kat-on sa explanation sa other side of story.. Sorry.

    sorry imong pag rely sa usa ka tawo nga walay alamag aning butanga..maoy gitawag ug appeal to a wrong authority. si Kent hovind dili expert aning butanga. in short word wala siyay alamag aning mga mananapa..hehehehe. gusto lang siya maka buhat ug museum...na priso na siya tungod sa tax evasion and wala sad na siya ni bayad sa building permit..

    imong reasoning defective na daan kay ang source walay credibility..kuha?

    source: Kent Hovind - RationalWiki

  3. #303

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    Would you like to live in a time when polio was still a prevailing and lethal disease to 1 in 6 people all over the world?

    Would you still like to live in a time when the carbon emissions by vehicles are higher because they were still mostly unleaded?

    Would you still like to live in a time when a bacterial infection can cause your death or paralysis?

    Would you prefer to live in a time when people's abilities and "worth" were judged based on their cranial size instead of aptitude and skills?

    -RODION
    It is not the Atheists who only have the intellect but there are numerous christian scientists as well. Nakanindot lang sa Christians kay theyre basing their facts from the bible. dili na mogasto ug dako in order to probe for other extra terrestrial life outside earth. .Kung motuo lang sa bible, mapuslan untag dako para sa mga pobre ang nausik nga billions or trillions nga gasto!

    Wala pa ko matawo bro nagsige nang mga scientists pangita ug life in other planets until now WA JUD GIHAPON MAKASABOT. nagsige nalang palakaw sa news headline nga "possible..."

    Hebrews 11:3
    By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

    I could go on and on. If you think this world isn't a better place than years before, then I guess you like to live in the conditions I described above.
    Were getting advance but our morality has declined. we have invented weapons of mass destruction, walay pulos gihapon.

    It proves that we are advancing towards our destruction!

  4. #304

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    Would you like to live in a time when polio was still a prevailing and lethal disease to 1 in 6 people all over the world?

    Would you still like to live in a time when the carbon emissions by vehicles are higher because they were still mostly unleaded?

    Would you still like to live in a time when a bacterial infection can cause your death or paralysis?

    Would you prefer to live in a time when people's abilities and "worth" were judged based on their cranial size instead of aptitude and skills?

    I could go on and on. If you think this world isn't a better place than years before, then I guess you like to live in the conditions I described above.

    -RODION
    The conditions you have mentioned above are created by Science ra ghapon. Kinsa diay nag imbento sa sakyanan? Dis a diay gikan ang bacteria or ang bag-ong sakit? kinsa diay nag imbento sa insecticide? etc...

    I could also go on and on to prove to you that the Problems you have mentioned are created by people who think that Science can explain everything in this world - that because of their so-called scientific intelligence they can alter nature and create new inventions to make life much better. And where are we Now? Still experimenting right?

  5. #305

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Saga View Post
    i believe carbon dating is used by vatican to determine the age of some scriptures or relic of christianity... ?? if it is so unrealiable why is that so..

    and please provide links and supporting information about the freshly killed seal

    HowStuffWorks "Carbon-14 Dating: Lots More Information"
    A freshly killed seal was carbon dated to be 1300 years old.
    -Antarctic Journal, Vol. 6, Sept-Oct, 1971, p. 211

    Shells from living snails were carbon dated at 27,000 years old.
    -Science, Vol. 224, 1984, p. 58-61

    Carbon dating heavily relies on assumptions.
    Specimens are basically selected that matches the geologic column if not it is discarded or thrown out.
    It is basically selecting evidences that only fit but evidences that doesn't fit are discarded.
    "No matter how ‘useful’ it is, though, the radiocarbon method is still not capable of yielding accurate and reliable results. There are gross discrepancies, the chronology is uneven and relative, and the accepted dates are actually selected dates. This whole blessed thing is nothing but 13th-century alchemy*, and it all depends upon which funny paper you read."
    -Robert E. Lee, Radiocarbon: Ages in Error, Anthropological Journal of Canada, Vol. 19(3), 1981, p. 9-29
    The ultimate source is the Bible it says the earth was created in six literal days and the first man was adam and eve that they were created by God about 6000 years ago.
    Last edited by Kenshiro; 05-14-2012 at 06:14 PM.

  6. #306

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    @kenshiro

    O sige tagaan ta nag weight imo argument. unsa man 6000 years sa Genesis,unsang calendar system ana ang gigamit?

  7. #307
    C.I.A. rodsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by SioDenz View Post
    The conditions you have mentioned above are created by Science ra ghapon. Kinsa diay nag imbento sa sakyanan? Dis a diay gikan ang bacteria or ang bag-ong sakit? kinsa diay nag imbento sa insecticide? etc...

    I could also go on and on to prove to you that the Problems you have mentioned are created by people who think that Science can explain everything in this world - that because of their so-called scientific intelligence they can alter nature and create new inventions to make life much better. And where are we Now? Still experimenting right?
    Because that's how the universe works (at least from the current data we have). Religion in the meantime, has a different purpose--it wants to put a period in a sentence and say "That's all there is folks! There's nothing more to be said." Science works differently--as long as there is something to be discovered and analyzed, data to be collected, humans will continue to experiment and invent. The thing is, most people hate this because of all the unknowns, and they want a "pader na sasandalan", and thus religion gives them that wall/pader. For people like me, I don't need something to lean on, because it is the very uncertainly of the universe that fascinates me. For me, that is where the beauty of life shines, the NOT KNOWING, and not in absolutes. Not knowing means I will continue to function as the curious creature I am, continually figuring things out, while enjoying our short stay in this universe.

    -RODION

  8. #308

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    Because that's how the universe works (at least from the current data we have). Religion in the meantime, has a different purpose--it wants to put a period in a sentence and say "That's all there is folks! There's nothing more to be said." Science works differently--as long as there is something to be discovered and analyzed, data to be collected, humans will continue to experiment and invent. The thing is, most people hate this because of all the unknowns, and they want a "pader na sasandalan", and thus religion gives them that wall/pader. For people like me, I don't need something to lean on, because it is the very uncertainly of the universe that fascinates me. For me, that is where the beauty of life shines, the NOT KNOWING, and not in absolutes. Not knowing means I will continue to function as the curious creature I am, continually figuring things out, while enjoying our short stay in this universe.

    -RODION
    How about sacrificing the lives of other people Just to quench the thirst of Curiosity? how about the invention of aerosol that damage the ozone layer? how about inventing weapons of mass destruction using it on wars and killing innocent civilians? how about the innocent people in Japan that suffers because of the scientific invention of Atom bomb? - because of Curiosity? hows that for a LIFE SHINES - maybe for you because you haven't been in the position wherein you are the subject of ones Scientific Curiosity.

  9. #309

    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    Then why the hell bother paying people (with our TAXES nonetheless) to do scientific research, or even BUILD a MIND MUSEUM using OUR money, if evolution is NOT valid? Ga dula-dula lang diay lang ning mga scientist with the money we allocate for scientific research?

    We rely on scientific research because it works--it has given us the world we have today--it provides us with the necessary things we need to get about day to day in this modern technological world. Granted, it is NOT a perfect world, but if you're really correct, that science (and thus ideas like evolution) only provide "EVIL" in the world, then let's try an experiment--let us remove three simple things provided for by science and technology, today, right now, in the real world, and let's see kung mo last ang human civilization (and even religions) for just ONE day.

    a) Electricity

    b) Computers and computerization

    c) Medical advances

    Sige daw bi...tang tangon nato ni tanan, kay bunga man ni siya sa science and technology, and let us see if nindot ba ang dagan sa kalibutan ninyo beh.

    Maayo mo kaayo mobatikos sa evolution nga wala gani ninyo nasabtan ang processo, just like wala mo nakasabot unsa ka importante ang science and technology. Igo lang mo luhod-luhod and trust on faith when in fact you can solve problems if you just STAND UP, AND ACT on them.

    And this is the reason WHY DepEd and a true secularist government would PUSH the advancement of science by introducing the concept of evolution in schools, para MA-IMPROVE ang state of consciousness and rational thinking sa mga tawo. Dili man ni dautan, kamo ra man ang sige'g sulti nga daotan ni.

    Wala ma'y intawon ga kontra sa inyo mag practice sa inyong religious beliefs, you are correct in emphasizing that. But IT IS A DIFFERENT STORY if you SHOVE a religious idea down a child's throat, ay mag lalis dyud ta. If you want more members of you congregation, just WAIT until someone acknowledges nga gusto niya mahimong katoliko siya or kristyano, using his or her own powers of thought and volition, mao na ang SAKTO.

    -RODION
    a) Electricity

    b) Computers and computerization

    c) Medical advances

    Among these disciplines which one does apply to Theory of Evolution.

    Christianity and Science go hand in hand.

    You are wrong when you assume that there are only Atheist in the field of Science
    there are a lot of famous scientist who believed in God.

    And Science is not secular as what atheist claim. Secularism is a political term while science is defined as

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.[1] In an older and closely related meaning (found, for example, in Aristotle), "science" refers to the body of reliable knowledge itself, of the type that can be logically and rationally explained (see History and philosophy below).[2] Since classical antiquity science as a type of knowledge was closely linked to philosophy. In the early modern era the words "science" and "philosophy" were sometimes used interchangeably in the English language. By the 17th century, natural philosophy (which is today called "natural science") was considered a separate branch of philosophy.[3] However, "science" continued to be used in a broad sense denoting reliable knowledge about a topic, in the same way it is still used in modern terms such as library science or political science.
    notice that you won't even find the word secular in the wikipedia of science.
    The Bible explains the "what is" and science explains how. Like "how" Einstein explains matter and energy.

    Famous Scientist who believed in God.

    Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
    Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

    Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
    Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)

    Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
    Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

    Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
    Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.

    Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
    Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.

    Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
    Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and theologian. In mathematics, he published a treatise on the subject of projective geometry and established the foundation for probability theory. Pascal invented a mechanical calculator, and established the principles of vacuums and the pressure of air. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but in 1654 had a religious vision of God, which turned the direction of his study from science to theology. Pascal began publishing a theological work, Lettres provinciales, in 1656. His most influential theological work, the Pensées ("Thoughts"), was a defense of Christianity, which was published after his death. The most famous concept from Pensées was Pascal's Wager. Pascal's last words were, "May God never abandon me."

    Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
    In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

    Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
    One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.

    Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
    Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

    Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
    Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.

    William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
    Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).

    Max Planck (1858-1947)
    Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
    Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
    Do not worry there are a lot of God believing scientist.
    When you practice science it is more in harmony with God than without one.

    He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
    Job 26:7
    Last edited by Kenshiro; 05-14-2012 at 06:47 PM.

  10. #310
    C.I.A. rodsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Age of the Universe - Biblical Fact - From Age 0 to Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by SioDenz View Post
    How about sacrificing the lives of other people Just to quench the thirst of Curiosity? how about the invention of aerosol that damage the ozone layer? how about inventing weapons of mass destruction using it on wars and killing innocent civilians? how about the innocent people in Japan that suffers because of the scientific invention of Atom bomb? - because of Curiosity? hows that for a LIFE SHINES - maybe for you because you haven't been in the position wherein you are the subject of ones Scientific Curiosity.
    People like to simplify things. Thus from your argument, people who have read your post will just conclude that anything that "saves human beings" is a "good" thing and everything that kills human beings (esp. things brought about by science) as a bad thing. The reality is, you cannot simplify things like that, but you are correct that you can fool simple people into thinking that what you just posted is 'right', that science does more harm than good. However, I'm confident that most people are smart enough and have capability to see beyond what you're trying to imply.

    -RODION

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