If there is no God, Who Governs Right or Wrong?

[kebot]

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Things to ponder about social benefit.

In the second world war. Germany was Governed by 1 man Adolf Hitler (I donot know if he is evil in your eyes.). He ordered to execution of 4Million(hope i am right) JEWS because they are APE, low class and the source of Abomination. In thier times woa it was so right to kill a Jew Person its almost a trophy. Does this sound Right or Wrong? No need to reply just keep your answers to yourselves.

And yea Hitler Benefited the Morals. He controlled the German People.

[bluedes]

Hmmm. this is really interesting. You guys i think is not Governed by Right or Wrong but what works and what doesn't? Its just like saying You are right but for a wrong reason...

Let me share the info i learned...

In the columbine shooting (school shooting). the shooter left a note and said, if "God exist he wont let me feel this way".

Point to ponder:
1. He blame God for not having there.
2. He is confused on what is right and what is wrong.

My personal take on this:
1. I need God to tell me what is right and what is wrong morally.
2. I do not want a member of my family to suffer on this emotion, I better tell him about my God.

This i believe is not a problem of having a God or Religion. Because most Religion teaches compassion, love, affection, honesty blah blah blah.

I believe we need God/Religion. It might happen to us one day.

Brad, ever been to the top of the chain of command? when you get to that level, God or Religion is only secondary.. what works and does not work is primarily what matters.. that is why all the great strategists of all time base their philosophy on what works and what does not work..

all the great books in politics and management are not written based on religion or god.. they base it on the philosophy of people like Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, Winston Churchill, Mao Zedong.. that's because these people are not biased by the religion or god they hold on to.. they adhere to the people they "serve" or "command".. based on strategies that have been tried and tested in the battlefield..

as for that columbine shooting, no offense to the families in that area, pero it will end up as statistics ra.. its one of society's illness.. a failure in society's responsibility to each of its members.. we have that here also.. the only difference is ilang buang ngadto magdala ug pusil.. ato dire, magsayaw2x sa colon..

[bodie]

Brad, ever been to the top of the chain of command? when you get to that level, God or Religion is only secondary.. what works and does not work is primarily what matters.. that is why all the great strategists of all time base their philosophy on what works and what does not work..

all the great books in politics and management are not written based on religion or god.. they base it on the philosophy of people like Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, Winston Churchill, Mao Zedong.. that's because these people are not biased by the religion or god they hold on to.. they adhere to the people they "serve" or "command".. based on strategies that have been tried and tested in the battlefield..

I have to disagree gamai bai. Leaders still consult their morals when it comes to making decisions. Utility is not the only basis. Like it or not, religion or the belief in god has an effect.

Truman agonized over the decision to drop the bomb is hiroshima, the decision to drop the bomb was due to a preventable sequence of events. He was willing to consider the loss of more american lives if it meant not having to drop the bomb. Unfortunately, the events in okinawa and a mistranslation sealed the deal.

The king of france (dont remember who) waged wars to prove that he was pious.

Government policies that affect milliions of people are influenced by religion. Look at the RH bill as a case in point.

as for that columbine shooting, no offense to the families in that area, pero it will end up as statistics ra.. its one of society's illness.. a failure in society's responsibility to each of its members.. we have that here also.. the only difference is ilang buang ngadto magdala ug pusil.. ato dire, magsayaw2x sa colon..

Regarding that, it never did come across to me as a denial of god. I interpreted it as an appeal to god from a believer. He knew the horror that he would unleash on his fellow students. It seemed more like he was asking for help from god to stop his actions.

[bodie]

Things to ponder about social benefit.

In the second world war. Germany was Governed by 1 man Adolf Hitler (I donot know if he is evil in your eyes.). He ordered to execution of 4Million(hope i am right) JEWS because they are APE, low class and the source of Abomination. In thier times woa it was so right to kill a Jew Person its almost a trophy. Does this sound Right or Wrong? No need to reply just keep your answers to yourselves.

And yea Hitler Benefited the Morals. He controlled the German People.

Hitler was so charismatic, the people believed that what they were doing was right.

Also, hitler used religion a lot. He used religion to reinforce his belief that the aryan race was superior. The "superiority" of the aryan race was used justification of their acts and indirectly lead to the extermination of millions of people.

[bluedes]

I have to disagree gamai bai. Leaders still consult their morals when it comes to making decisions. Utility is not the only basis. Like it or not, religion or the belief in god has an effect.

Truman agonized over the decision to drop the bomb is hiroshima, the decision to drop the bomb was due to a preventable sequence of events. He was willing to consider the loss of more american lives if it meant not having to drop the bomb. Unfortunately, the events in okinawa and a mistranslation sealed the deal.

The king of france (dont remember who) waged wars to prove that he was pious.

Government policies that affect milliions of people are influenced by religion. Look at the RH bill as a case in point.

and the leaders who paused to consult their morals as in your examples made a good outcome?

morals only mess up your decision making process.. that's why like i said in my post, people like Sun Tzu and Machiavelli do not consult morals, but base their strategy on what works and what does not work.. practicality ang issue, dili morals..

Regarding that, it never did come across to me as a denial of god. I interpreted it as an appeal to god from a believer. He knew the horror that he would unleash on his fellow students. It seemed more like he was asking for help from god to stop his actions.

who said it was a denial of God.. whatever God that shooter called upon to, bottomline is he was seriously psychologically impaired.. in short, nabuang xa.. to ask for help from God to stop his actions is crazy.. that's a sign of a person who is spineless..

[Evening Spark]

Neither right nor wrong will govern if there's no God.
What happens is that the "matter" in vast space is unorganized.

[bodie]

and the leaders who paused to consult their morals as in your examples made a good outcome?

I honestly dont know. The crusades, for one, were terrible, but could we say with absolute certainty that we would be where we are now if it didnt happen?

morals only mess up your decision making process.. that's why like i said in my post, people like Sun Tzu and Machiavelli do not consult morals, but base their strategy on what works and what does not work.. practicality ang issue, dili morals..

Thats a valid point for argument. However, the moral choice is sometimes the practical choice. Morality and practicality is not always mutually exclusive.

It can be argued that executing prisoners or performing abortion is the most practical choice. Yet, what do our leaders consistently choose? Im not saying anything for or against abortion or execution here, but im saying that some situations are not that easy to resolve. The ruthlessly practical choice might be good for the short term, but long term... thats another question.

who said it was a denial of God.. whatever God that shooter called upon to, bottomline is he was seriously psychologically impaired.. in short, nabuang xa.. to ask for help from God to stop his actions is crazy.. that's a sign of a person who is spineless..

I could be wrong, but I kinda got that impression from kebot's post.

[tripwire]

Governs?

Isn't it the job for law enforcements? They painstakingly employ what is "right or wrong". But if you base your thoughts through God, your Bible has them. Bible can only teach but cannot govern what is "right or wrong". Just my thoughts.

[KASAAC]

Its your conscience that governs you to do the right thing.

[grovestreet]

each of us... are influenced by our environment and the culture we are born into.

a great example by j. fresco:

A Roman family went to see christians being fed to the lions, and the children asked their parents "daddy can we see christians being fed to the lions next week?" the parent answers "only if you behave yourself."

so are these people sick or evil? Those things were considered normal in their culture and at the time.