MIRACLES... Are they REAL?

[chad_tukes]

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Tinuod jud bro mao bitaw karon ang science gitawag ug miracles of science kay ang science mo prove jud sa bisan unsang lubog sa pang hunahuna sa tawo, naa man gud times nga maau ta sa atong sakit due to some source of energy nga naa sa atong palibot and some say on this matter nga milagro na! wala sila nahibalo nga Natural ra diay na kay naa may gitawag ug energy and some sort of it...nga maka ayo...sa labad sa ulo, sakit tiyan or etc.

man constantly finds an attempt to alternative explanation such as yin and yang or hot and cold. in medical anthropology, some culture believes that when a man gets ill, there is an imbalance between the hot and cold energy in our body.

[chad_tukes]

As crazy as it sounds , indeed by definition and logic it is CANNIBALISM since it is HUMAN FLESH consumed . In the case of the NUN in SOUTH KOREA , it is still investigated by the way but it is still a MIRACLE as an " AWAKENING " for the said nun . Sayop diay ko , the NUN used to be an ATHEIST or something , maybe of a different religion also why she was there or what is her business during the holy mass , I dont know . After that , she converted and became a nun .

On the case of EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES , a lot has been authenticated by both the CHURCH and the SCIENCE COMMUNITY . I dont think it is bias since part of the investigation of the church involves people in the science community who performs the testing , research , findings and the moment they cant conclude it fully ... it is a MIRACLE .

Even the body of POPE PIUS is a MIRACLE . It did not rot to this day and he was dead for decades already . He is bound for sainthood for that matter .

as i've said in my previous post, this is a matter of cherry picking in a sense that the investigation is done in such a way that the results would coincide with the religious belief that had claimed it a miracle (in this case, the Catholic Church).

just an example in the case of the Eucharistic miracle of LANCIANO... case in point:

- there is evidence which is supposed to show that wine turned to blood and a communion wafer turned to flesh.
- what is shown is that there is some blood in a cup.
- the evidence does not show that these items were once wine/wafer.
- So there is no proof of transubstantiation.

therefore we conclude, that there is no evidence for supernatural phenomena or anything special going on.

[chad_tukes]

What you said makes sense but then how can 1 explain which doesnt need SYSTEMATIC PROCESS that a bread and wine turned into body and blood right in the very faces of everyone , during consecration alone , LEVITATIONS happened a lot to priest who are in the purest state of grace . Again to see is to believe , that is why I believe because I saw it . Mahurot ang balhibo ninyo pamarog .

there is actually no evidence for this. it could be some sort of an illusion like what DAVID BLAINE or CRISS ANGEL does on their TV shows. don't be fooled by what you read.

[chad_tukes]

Kini Chad:

"Dead" man wakes up under autopsy knife

Carlos Camejo, 33, was declared dead after a highway accident and taken to the morgue, where examiners began an autopsy only to realize something was amiss when he started bleeding. They quickly sought to stitch up the incision on his face.

Dead man wakes up under autopsy knife | Reuters

Mom and baby thought dead come back to life
"I guess as soon as he grabbed my hand and looked down at it he noticed it was blue and then the nurse looked up at my face and noticed it was gray, then they started calling my name and slapping my face and I guess I opened one eye and then closed it and that is when they lost my heart," Tracey said.
Mom and baby thought dead come back to life : News : KXRM FOX 21

Tracy Hermanstorfer | Mother and son come back to life after 'dying' during labour

uy, na mute man lagi ka? anyhow, reply lang gihapon ko's imong post. so when a "dead" man wakes up you call that a miracle? i guess the word miracle is relative. how would you define miracle? if you talk about miracle having a divine intervention then this certainly does not fall under "miracle". but i could call this a "miracle" in a sense that it is something UNUSUAL. you see, the body has the ability to work wonders, and this situation is one of them. he could not have been DEAD all along. probably in a state of coma? did you think about that?

[karwren]

Can't participate, not the miracle i personally know of as miracle. =)

i came across springy's post on Vien's thread where he said create a new thread about miracles, so here's where i insert myself, ladies and gentlemen. let's talk about miracles in this thread. trust me, i've tried the search feature and i couldn't find any thread relating to miracles.

before i go any further, i'd like to be direct to the point and make my stand on this topic: the word "miracle" here pertains to SUPERNATURAL PHENOMENA which falls outside the realms of SCIENCE. do not confuse the word miracle to, say, surviving breast cancer, etc. that's not what i'm talking about here.

so... on to the topic. do you believe in miracles a.k.a supernatural phenomena? statue of the virgin mary crying blood? dancing sto. nino? dancing sun? faith-healing?

[chad_tukes]

Can't participate, not the miracle i personally know of as miracle. =)

ok... so care to share us your definition of miracle?

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

as i've said in my previous post, this is a matter of cherry picking in a sense that the investigation is done in such a way that the results would coincide with the religious belief that had claimed it a miracle (in this case, the Catholic Church).

It is a claim backed by the INVESTIGATIVE BODY composed of people who are the experts , masters in their respective profession that provided the case studies . These are not people from the church either, it did not coincide also since conclusions made by these experts are done state of the art laboratories and the church only ask them for confirmation if it is REAL FLESH and REAL BLOOD . By the way , it is type AB according to the scientist .

For me it is only cherry picking when the church would employ the people who will obviously will side with them . Thats the very reason why a lot of SCAMS were uncovered for money making purposes with the help of SCIENCE ie fake tears of images .

There are also numerous opinions gathered and not only from one team / group of experts .

just an example in the case of the Eucharistic miracle of LANCIANO... case in point:

- there is evidence which is supposed to show that wine turned to blood and a communion wafer turned to flesh.
- what is shown is that there is some blood in a cup.
- the evidence does not show that these items were once wine/wafer.
- So there is no proof of transubstantiation.

therefore we conclude, that there is no evidence for supernatural phenomena or anything special going on.

That is a narrow reaction / conclusion of a skeptic . Obviously , it is for you to find out for yourself which I doubt if it interest you Chad but then SCIENCE already waived its stand on further studies because they already maximized their capacities to explain the SUPERNATURAL PHENOMENA to no avail .

The statement above is not a challenge towards the church but already a challenge to SCIENCE .

there is actually no evidence for this. it could be some sort of an illusion like what DAVID BLAINE or CRISS ANGEL does on their TV shows. don't be fooled by what you read.

Case in point :

- Yes there is no evidence on these claims since you wont find it on TV in live broadcast streaming .
- The only time we get fooled is when we inclined to something that favors our opinions and stand with out the validity and availability of a reliable source ie authors .
- For the book on authors , nobody wrote it . It was a compilation of events / occuerence that carries both the credibility of SCIENCE . How advance science is would be the question since some occurence happened as early as 1100's and as late as the 90's that were recorded and officially proclaimed after extensive investigation .

OT : Chad ... 1 post at a time lang . Strikto na ra ba diri ron hehehehe .

[karwren]

The miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ - How HE transformed my life and those who profess the same toward Him.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

^^^

Dili lage na mao ang gipasabot ni CHAD na milagro since we are talking here about PHENOMENOMS .

[chad_tukes]

It is a claim backed by the INVESTIGATIVE BODY composed of people who are the experts , masters in their respective profession that provided the case studies . These are not people from the church either, it did not coincide also since conclusions made by these experts are done state of the art laboratories and the church only ask them for confirmation if it is REAL FLESH and REAL BLOOD . By the way , it is type AB according to the scientist .

don't get me wrong, i am not disagreeing with that. i fully accept that it was being done by an investigative body, and yes, the conclusion is that it was REAL FLESH AND BLOOD. but the question is, what is the evidence suggesting that the wine turned to blood, and the wafer turned into flesh?

That is a narrow reaction / conclusion of a skeptic . Obviously , it is for you to find out for yourself which I doubt if it interest you Chad but then SCIENCE already waived its stand on further studies because they already maximized their capacities to explain the SUPERNATURAL PHENOMENA to no avail .

The statement above is not a challenge towards the church but already a challenge to SCIENCE .

that statement is made based on the lack of evidence that point towards the ACT OF A SUPERNATURAL. there is no evidence for it, period. you are right, they have maximized their capabilities; Science can only do so much and there are limits, but a limited knowledge about something does not mean it is the works of God (or a MIRACLE). in fact, there is no correlation at all.

- For the book on authors , nobody wrote it . It was a compilation of events / occuerence that carries both the credibility of SCIENCE . How advance science is would be the question since some occurence happened as early as 1100's and as late as the 90's that were recorded and officially proclaimed after extensive investigation .

priests during those times were KNOWN to levitate, it wasn't really proven that they in fact did (or has the capabilities to do so). Padre Pio is well-known for this---stigmata and levitation. but who saw him levitate? he's even been accused of faking his STIGMATA, what more those claims of LEVITATION. levitating while doing mass is so easy to fake.

OT : Chad ... 1 post at a time lang . Strikto na ra ba diri ron hehehehe .

ok... sorry.