Are you kidding me? Are you really into this type of 'reasoning'?
I'm not kidding anyone dude. Perhaps you are kidding yourself. How could one deny that the church never did anything as described? Its either you are naive or it is just your desperate effort to defend something that everybody knows the church really did. You really think the Church is that lamb that never gets to hurt anyone? C'mon, wake up!
Does that really follow? Oh, I forgot, that's how you 'look' at things.
And exactly how do I have to look at things? Based on what the church tells me to? Maybe you....but I'm on a quest. I'm not one to just sit around and listen to hypocrisy and lies.
Does that really follow? Duh!
THIS is your proof
A movie How gullible could you get?
BWAHAHAHAHA! You can't be serious mate! A movie? Not just "a" movie mate....it basically tells, though not accurate, the misadventures of adventurer and autobiographer Giacomo Girolamo Casanova. In it also, it portrays how the Church acts during those times. Perhaps, you could compare it with the the Philippines' Noli Me Tangere and El Fibusterismo wherein Dr. Jose Rizal also gets to depict the realities of his time. How could one dismiss such for a proof when it fortolds the life of 18th century Venice. Man, I'm not referring to a Mr. Bean movie for you to say "A movie
". Duh!
And your proof where the Church dealth with non-Christians?
Huh? Are you beating around the bush? The Witch Hunt of Europe is basically one of the sited example and yet you defy to believe it in that it was targeting pagans instead of the so-called "devil-worshippers". Please let me post the following again and please do read it....
Lies and more lies from the church. Misleading lies actually. Paganism do evoke spirits. Its part of their practice. You are like telling me that the brutality wasn't directed to Christianity but to their practice of praying to their saints. Rubbish. The Church knows the traditions, costums and such of paganism because it is a popular religion before and they do have history. They brand them, using pagan symbols as devil related, thus giving them the right to persecute them. WHoever seen dancing in the woods naked...burned to the stake. Whoever seen with the goat's head (God of fertility by the pagans) in the altar....Devil worshipper! Burn 'em to the stakes! Whoever has the pentagram (the sign of venus), the Devil's sign! Burn 'em to the stakes! No..no...no....its too harsh! They were not all burned to the stakes. Some were tied up with a rock and thrown in the river....not to take a refreshing bath mind you, but to drown. More humane? During investigation, some (to be politically correct) and not all, were pricked with long needles or tied up and stretched hard like a rubber band if they do not admit. How nice...all in the name of Jesus Christ. If I were one of them, I'll admit early on. At least I don't have to suffer long. Those who didn't admit, suffered so hard and at the end, they admitted that they were Devil worshippers so that they don't have to suffer anymore. Tell me if its not true and I'll really laugh at how deep the lies of the church gets to penetrate in you. Ask any Pagan scholar and they will tell you the same thing.
Don't tell me that its all coincidence? That the pentagram, the number "6" and the goat are just coincidental that the Church reffered to them as the Devil and....oh! it just happens to be among the important symbols of paganism! Not Satanism! But Paganism! Man, you are so naive. I'm sure you believed that the late president Marcos should be a Nobel Prize Winner too.
Furthermore...perhaps you are not aware of the horrors of the "Inquisition" also? Well, please allow me to name a few...
- After 1254 the accused had no right to counsel, but those found guilty could appeal to the pope
- Torture of the accused and his witnesses soon became customary and notorious, despite the long-standing papal condemnation of torture (e.g., by Nicholas I)
-
Pope Innocent IV ultimately permitted torture in cases of heresy
- Most trials resulted in a guilty verdict, and the church handed the condemned over to the secular authorities for punishment.
- Burning at the stake was thought to be the fitting punishment for unrecanted heresy, probably through analogy with the Roman law on treason
- In 1542, Paul III assigned the medieval Inquisition to the Congregation of the Inquisition, or Holy Office. This institution, which became known as the Roman Inquisition, was intended to combat Protestantism, but it is perhaps best known historically for its condemnation of Galileo.
(Source: Torture - 1985 and Inquisition - 1988 by E.M. Peters)
And before I forget...you were asking how the Church deals with non-Christians?
Well, perhaps let us review the crusades for a bit...
- The Crusades were expeditions undertaken, in fulfilment of a solemn vow, to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedan tyranny.
- Since the Middle Ages the meaning of the word crusade has been extended to include all wars undertaken in pursuance of a vow, and directed against infidels, i.e. against Mohammedans, pagans, heretics, or those under the ban of excommunication.
- Some were directed against other Christians, such as the Fourth Crusade against Constantinople and the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars of southern France.
- "I grew up believing that the Crusades were a fine thing, and I was shocked when I learned of the massacres they carried out among the Muslims, the Jews and Eastern Orthodox Christians,'' - John Strobole
- Furthermore..an official apology was done by the late Pope John Paul II last March 12, 2000 wherein the pope apologized for the atrocities done by the church which includes the Crusades, the Inquisition, persecution of Jews, the forced conversions of Indians and Africans, acts to preserve the power and enrich the Church, acts committed in Concert with Monarchs bound to the church by oath.
"All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman. ... What else is woman but a foe to friendship, an unescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, domestic danger, a delectable detriment, an evil nature, painted with fair colours. ... Women are by nature instruments of Satan -- they are by nature carnal, a structural defect rooted in the original creation."
- Malleus Maleficarum (The Hammer of Witches), published by
Catholic inquisition authorities in 1485-86
And you said that the church has nothing to do with the Witch Hunt of Europe? Think again! The
Malleus Maleficarum became the most influential and widely used handbook on witchcraft. ... Its enormous influence was practically guaranteed, owing not only to its authoritative appearance but also to its extremely wide distribution. It was one of the first books to be printed on the recently invented printing press and appeared in no fewer than 20 editions. ... The moral backing had been provided for a horrible, endless march of suffering, torture, and human disgrace inflicted on thousands of women.
Its authors, Jacob Sprenger and Heinrich Kraemer, were experienced Dominican inquisitors who had burned 48 witches in one diocese alone and had
obtained a papal bull approving their mission. Reversing the old principle of the Canon Episcopi, Sprenger and Kraemer proclaimed that not believing in the reality of witches was heresy. Witches regularly did physical as well as spiritual harm to others, they wrote, and allegiance to the devil defined witchcraft. Sprenger and Kraemer exhorted secular authorities to fight witches by any means necessary. (Sandra Miesel - a Catholic Journalist, in Crisis Magazine)
The Papal Bull,
Summis desiderantes affectibus, of Pope Innocent VIII (1484) instigated very severe measures against magicains and witches in Germany; the principles enunciated by him were afterwards embodied in the Malleus Maleficarum (1487). It was him wherein the witch mania was attributed.
You introduce the topic and you expect others to be silent about it? Duh!
Correction....I state an example.
Are you referring to the movie or the real story? I guess you are a movie buff. Have you tried to find the truth? Or do you content yourself with the gory details?
Have you? Or are you just blabbing for something to say?
The Magdalene Asylums were set up in the 19th century as refuges for so-called fallen women. Operated by orders of nuns, the asylums financed their operations by functioning as commercial laundries providing service to schools, prisons and other institutions.
The women had to labour in silence - totally unpaid - 52 weeks a year, symbolically washing away their sins. They were forced to bind their breasts, had their heads shaved and were regularly humiliated and beaten.
Over the years, more than 30,000 women and girls were imprisoned in these penal establishments, some for decades, to scrub away the sin of being pregnant, unwanted or being perceived to be in “moral danger” (for example, because of being very pretty). Although the women were referred to as prostitutes, this term was used to encompass not only women who sold *** for money but also single mothers, socialists, mill girls and girls who dressed 'immorally'. The presumption that you were a sexual being was enough to condemn you. So the victims of abuse were guilty too and, by extension, those in danger of corruption by their fathers, brothers, cousins, or just men in general also had to be saved from sin.
Technically, every woman who entered one of the closed laundries did so voluntarily, following the example of Mary Magdalene, the "prostitute" who became the "13th apostle" of Christ, after whom the convents were named. But there was nothing voluntary about the grinding work, the beatings, the forced fasting or the weekly mortification sessions, when the women were stripped and laughed at for their vanity.
And don't forget the Quebec Church Scandal or the Duplessis Orphans....
The episode is believed to be the largest case of institution-based youth abuse in Canadian history.
During the reign of Quebec Premier Maurice Duplessis in the 1940s and 1950s, an alarming number of healthy children living in sanctuaries were hastily diagnosed as mentally incompetent, psychotic patients. The diagnoses were always swift — the children went to bed orphans and woke up psychiatric patients. The reason? Shrewd fiscal planning; federal subsidies paid out more to hospitals than to orphanages. Some children allegedly endured lobotomies, electroshock, straitjackets and abuse. For the rest of their lives they would struggle to bring attention to their story and demand compensation. They called themselves the Duplessis Orphans.
It is believed that most of the "orphans" were in fact children born to unmarried parents. Since this was during the 1930's, '40s and '50s they were left in the care of religious orders that operated orphanages. In some cases those establishments were transformed into health-care facilities and in other cases the children were shipped from orphanages to existing hospitals. At these hospitals, that were also run by religious orders, the Duplessis' Orphans claim doctors wrongfully labelled many children as mentally deficient.
The reason for all this was that Quebec could obtain more federal funds for health-care facilities than for schools and orphanages. More money for Quebec meant more money for the religious orders. But what about the children?
By being labelled mentally deficient they were subject to treatments such as being strapped into straightjackets, electroshock therapy, excessive medication, detainment in cells and even lobotomies. Their stories of physical and sexual abuse are frightful. When no more financial gain could be achieved by keeping them, they are released from their dreadful existence behind those institution walls. With no education and false medical records they were well unprepared for adult life. Even traces of their families have been snatched from them.
Today there are only 3,000 left and they range in age from 45 to 80 but they are strong. They vow to fight for justice. Premier Bouchard and Cardinal Turcotte have tried to ignore the Duplessis' Orphans. - Donna McAllister
In 1942, the Legislative Assembly of Quebec passed into law an Act that allowed the
Roman Catholic Church to sell the unclaimed body of any orphan to medical schools. This practise of selling orphans' remains continued into the 1960s. In 2004, members of the "Duplessis Orphans" asked the Quebec government to unearth an abandoned cemetery in the east end of Montreal which they believe holds the remains of orphans who may have been the subject of medical experiments. According to testimony by individuals who were at the Cite de St. Jean de Dieu insane asylum, now named Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine Hospital, the orphans were routinely experimented upon and many died. The group wants the government to exhume the bodies in order that autopsies can be done.
At first, the government of Quebec stonewalled their request for justice but after they started gaining widespread publicity, in March of 1999, the Parti Québécois government made a token offer of approximately $1,000 as full compensation to each of the victims. The offer was rejected and the government was harshly criticized by the public and even the provincial Ombudsman, Daniel Jacoby, came out saying that the government's handling of the situation had trivialized the abuse the victims alleged. Nevertheless, the Quebec government of Lucien Bouchard still refused to hold an enquiry and get to the bottom of the scandal. In 2001, the claimants received an increased offer from the Quebec government for a flat payment of $10,000 per person, plus an additional $1,000 for each year of wrongful confinement to a mental institution. The offer amounted to approximately $15,000 per orphan, however it was limited to each of the surviving 1,100 orphans the government had labelled as mentally deficient, but did not include any compensation for victims of sexual or other abuse.
Its getting late..perhaps, the rest will be discussed in a more appropriate time.
For now, please do some readings also. That way, I don't have to see you as a naive person always seeking for proof and desperation accounting the issues presented as "heretical". Read and you will find proof yourself.
Re: DAN BROWN : Da Vinci Code
Originally Posted by The_Child
this thing is still alive?
sorry.
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