All about Roman Catholicism here.

[Khabz02]

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hi people i found this thread interesting, hope you dont mind if i join.

you know mga bro, just like anybody else, i am a nominal Catholic, then i became non-believer, somewhat they called a free thinker. but God don twant me to go astray and i found myself again in His arms.

I am a Catholic and will always be, i join debates against other organized religions, because i am deeply hurt when they the so called self appointed righteous born again Christians, loves to punch and make a good time with our Church. I studied the bible, join CFD seminars, i thought i could be better with this.

A few years, i realize there is nobody who would want to part of their cherished beliefs, no matter how far our arguments come or our voice hoarsed. It was then i thought that the better argument for us Catholics to really show that we are truly Christian, is to live a humble yet dignified life and live by the example of the Christ we believe as God.
This is in fact the best we can do to convert people around us. Let us not argue whether our respective religions can bring us to heaven or to nirvana, anyway, everyone of us will have our own time to face death, then let us just wave our hands in heaven to recognize ourselves that we actually knew each other back on earth.

Have a nice day mga bro!

[Gwynhuever]

@shoeless.....maypang habal2 driver naka convince pa nimo

bitaw bro....i am happy to hear that you are giving it a try....and for someone like you who is wise beyond his years...i know dili ka ma shot sa abyss! (kakuyaw sad atong imong example oi)...

Jesus is the best jud bro diba...pero remember jud ha nga although he was not above dealing with harlots, tax collectors etc (mga makasasala)...he hated hypocrites and those with holier than thou attitudes! look how he talked to the chief priests and the Pharisees...the so called learned and wise men....*shaking head*

oh kon kalugar sad ka...basa2 sad about buddhist principles...power sad....

God bless you my friend.

[richard79]

actually, am not Catholic and will never be. That's is why I don't like anybody feeling that there religion/sect is the all knowing one. Just remember guys, no religion can save you, only prepare you for what's about to come, if its coming

I am confused by your post.

When you said 'am not Catholic and will never be', you are actually saying that you know of the future. That is a big claim. Are you all-knowing in the aspect of future life?

There is once this man who said that I have no right to tell him what I had just told him. Yet, if that man presume that I have the same way of (crooked?) reasoning, he would be silent. He will realize that he has no right to tell me that I have no right to tell him what I have just told him.

Kasimple ra sa iyang tubag intawn oi imo paman lisod lisoron ang imong hunahuna. Ayaw liboga ang dili libog wala sya kahibaw sa umaabot pero kahibaw sya nga si Hesu Kristo mobalik! Wala na gani na nakigdebate ang taw inyo pajud debatehon! unsa paman?! Maayo nga nagkasinabot na dri ang mga taw.

@shoeless_rebel: nisaludo nako nimo pre. padayona lang. kung asa ka mas comportable sa imong faith og kung asa ang naghimo pud og sakto nga dili double standard nga dili lang dyosnon sa domingo kundi sa tanang adlaw. salamat!

[samokan]

i dont know if this article is shared yet , but here it is --> http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006

i find this article enlightening

[mosimos]

hi people i found this thread interesting, hope you dont mind if i join.

you know mga bro, just like anybody else, i am a nominal Catholic, then i became non-believer, somewhat they called a free thinker. but God don twant me to go astray and i found myself again in His arms.

I am a Catholic and will always be, i join debates against other organized religions, because i am deeply hurt when they the so called self appointed righteous born again Christians, loves to punch and make a good time with our Church. I studied the bible, join CFD seminars, i thought i could be better with this.

A few years, i realize there is nobody who would want to part of their cherished beliefs, no matter how far our arguments come or our voice hoarsed. It was then i thought that the better argument for us Catholics to really show that we are truly Christian, is to live a humble yet dignified life and live by the example of the Christ we believe as God.
This is in fact the best we can do to convert people around us. Let us not argue whether our respective religions can bring us to heaven or to nirvana, anyway, everyone of us will have our own time to face death, then let us just wave our hands in heaven to recognize ourselves that we actually knew each other back on earth.

Have a nice day mga bro!

I am not arguing. Im just defending our Church from outside attacks. I am a Catholic apologist. Im the first line of defense.

[mosimos]

@shoeless.....maypang habal2 driver naka convince pa nimoÂ*

bitaw bro....i am happy to hear that you are giving it a try....and for someone like you who is wise beyond his years...i know dili ka ma shot sa abyss! (kakuyaw sad atong imong example oi)...

Jesus is the best jud bro diba...pero remember jud ha nga although he was not above dealing with harlots, tax collectors etc (mga makasasala)...he hated hypocrites and those with holier than thou attitudes! look how he talked to the chief priests and the Pharisees...the so called learned and wise men....*shaking head*

oh kon kalugar sad ka...basa2 sad about buddhist principles...power sad....

God bless you my friend.Â*

If defending our faith make us hypocrites according to the eyes of those who dont understand, so be it. . .


Luke, chapter 21

14: Settle it therefore in your minds, not to meditate beforehand how to answer;
15: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict. 16: You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and kinsmen and friends, and some of you they will put to death;
17: you will be hated by all for my name's sake.
18: But not a hair of your head will perish.
19: By your endurance you will gain your lives.

[weedmeister2]

hello again!!! not to stir things up again, but just wanted to clarify what i was trying to point out, as my knowledge alone was insufficient to explain what i meant...

this is MY belief, and i am NOT in any way imposing this on any of you... i just wanted to share what i beleive to be true, my bros and sis in the faith...

i have "stolen" this from http://aibi.gospelcom.net/eternity/eternity111.htm without permission, and sir Fingolfin, I hope you would indulge another of my cut and pastes, but like i said, i cannot explain my thoughts as well as this guy does...



The Enquiry:

Help me to understand. I believe, trust, depend and rely on the Lord Jesus. I have repented and asked forgiveness of my sins. I have confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I have called upon the name of the Lord, and I believe that I am saved. Having done such, the Bible tells me that I am saved. I know that I am saved by the grace of God and not of my works. Based on what the Bible tells me, I believe that my salvation is secured. However, James 2:17 states that faith without works is dead. To me that means that as a result of my faith in the Lord Jesus, I do good works. I don't think that I do good works to get saved (or stay saved)but because I am saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. What am I missing in your message when you state or imply that sanctification is (not) a process of do's and don't's and should not be something Christians practice? I believe your answer lies somewhere in "....we hear the word of God and believe it and live in the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, are filled with the Spirit and dwell in love. " My question is: Is this not good works? On this earth, are we Christians not to do good deeds-works? Your comments on this would be greatly appreciated.


The Answer:

1) We are created in Christ Jesus for good works. We are to do lots of them, good works are what God has made us for and He has prepared them beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10) :mrgreen:

2) However we are not saved by good works. We are saved apart from good works, by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

3) The good works we are to do are defined as the commandments of Jesus Christ which are pretty well summarized in the Sermon On The Mount and in the various "one another" commands in the New Testament "love one another, forgive one another, be tender-hearted to one another, forbear one another etc.

4) The good works are not "religious" works involving priests, temples, sacrifices, offerings, feast days, oblations, special diets, vows, clean and unclean foods, taboos, don't handle, taste, touch etc. These religious works have all been fulfilled in Christ and there is no need for them to be performed any more, that entire system has passed away (see Galatians and especially Hebrews).

5) There can even be a clash between religious good works and true new creation good works. For instance if money needed for the family is given instead to religious uses and made Corban (means a gift or offering consecrated to God) that is evil. (Mark 7:6-13, 1 Timothy 5:

(Mark 7:6-13 NKJV) He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. {7} And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' {8} "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men; the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." {9} He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. {10} "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' {11} "But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban"; ' (that is, a gift to God), {12} "then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, {13} "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."

(1 Timothy 5:8 NKJV) But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

6) True "New Creation" good works spring from faith working through love and are done in the power of the Holy Spirit. See the following almost identical verses in Galatians.
(Galatians 5:6 NKJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
(Galatians 6:15 NKJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.


7) True "New Creation" good works are done without thought of the approval of men - including any approval by a religious hierarchy or Christian community. That is not to put down such communal expressions of faith but to limit them within their proper bounds. Approval is given in Christ, by grace, through faith and is called "justification" and is freely given by God.
(John 5:44 NASB) "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another, and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?

Being holy is not the same as "being very religious". Being holy just means being set apart to God and living a life that obeys His commandments - the one another commands, Sermon On The Mount etc. True holiness also means being unstained by the works of the flesh such as fornication, witchcraft etc (see Galatians 5:19-21). Being holy is not external piety such as having Christian bumper stickers, lots of bibles and going to church five times a week. You can do all that and be very unholy. Being holy is being loving and righteous and joyful and thankful in the Holy Spirit.

9) Being perfect is not the same as "being very religious". Being perfect is being perfected in love so you can even love your enemies. The prefect Christian is perfectly loving. (Matthew 5:43-48 NASB) "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' {44} "But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you {45} in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. {46} "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax-gatherers do the same? {47} "And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? {48} "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

10) Unreligious people can still be perfect and holy and fulfill all the good works that God has created beforehand for them to do by having faith in Christ and loving their neighbour with perfect love in the power of the Holy Spirit. Life that is righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Spirit is simple and uncomplicated - as Jesus said "my yoke is easy and my burden is light". Thus Christians do not have to do a long list of religious duties in order to make God happy. God has been happy with them since the day they were born-again and happily gives them some duties in the Kingdom so they can demonstrate the love they have in their heart and be a blessing to their neighbour.




and that. my brothers and sisters, sums up my belief with regards to good works...

[bcasabee]

I-try pud ninyo ang kang Confucious ug Lao Tzu's nindot pud kaayo.................But mas ganahan jud ko sa kay Confucious ug Buddha.........Those three are great men......like other great men........and just like Jesus........they were persecuted and were not appreciated in their own homeland during their times........yet their great works were appreciated and flourshed outside their native land................Those three never meant to create religions....for they were humble Philosophers and men who were just seeking truth and enlightenment.............Jesus on the other hand came to spread truth and knowledge to those who seek it and to be englightened..............

oh kon kalugar sad ka...basa2 sad about buddhist principles...power sad....

God bless you my friend.

[mannyamador]

1) We are created in Christ Jesus for good works. We are to do lots of them, good works are what God has made us for and He has prepared them beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)

2) However we are not saved by good works. We are saved apart from good works, by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Well, since this was put forward, I have to point out that this is simply not consistent with the Bible. James 2:14-26 makes it abundantly clear that we are NOT saved by faith alone. Faith without works is is dead and cannot save. So the author is quite obviously wrong when he claims we are saved by faith apart from works. Without works, faith alone ("apart from works") just can't save!

This isn't my interpretation (since I have no personal authority to intepret it). You can all read James 2:14-26 for yourselves. It is very clear and explicit.

[mosimos]

hello again!!! not to stir things up again, but just wanted to clarify what i was trying to point out, as my knowledge alone was insufficient to explain what i meant...

this is MY belief, and i am NOT in any way imposing this on any of you... i just wanted to share what i beleive to be true, my bros and sis in the faith...

i have "stolen" this from http://aibi.gospelcom.net/eternity/eternity111.htm without permission, and sir Fingolfin, I hope you would indulge another of my cut and pastes, but like i said, i cannot explain my thoughts as well as this guy does...



The Enquiry:

Help me to understand. I believe, trust, depend and rely on the Lord Jesus. I have repented and asked forgiveness of my sins. I have confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I have called upon the name of the Lord, and I believe that I am saved. Having done such, the Bible tells me that I am saved. I know that I am saved by the grace of God and not of my works. Based on what the Bible tells me, I believe that my salvation is secured. However, James 2:17 states that faith without works is dead. To me that means that as a result of my faith in the Lord Jesus, I do good works. I don't think that I do good works to get saved (or stay saved)but because I am saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. What am I missing in your message when you state or imply that sanctification is (not) a process of do's and don't's and should not be something Christians practice? I believe your answer lies somewhere in "....we hear the word of God and believe it and live in the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, are filled with the Spirit and dwell in love. " My question is: Is this not good works? On this earth, are we Christians not to do good deeds-works? Your comments on this would be greatly appreciated.


The Answer:

1) We are created in Christ Jesus for good works. We are to do lots of them, good works are what God has made us for and He has prepared them beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10) :mrgreen:

2) However we are not saved by good works. We are saved apart from good works, by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

3) The good works we are to do are defined as the commandments of Jesus Christ which are pretty well summarized in the Sermon On The Mount and in the various "one another" commands in the New Testament "love one another, forgive one another, be tender-hearted to one another, forbear one another etc.

4) The good works are not "religious" works involving priests, temples, sacrifices, offerings, feast days, oblations, special diets, vows, clean and unclean foods, taboos, don't handle, taste, touch etc. These religious works have all been fulfilled in Christ and there is no need for them to be performed any more, that entire system has passed away (see Galatians and especially Hebrews).

5) There can even be a clash between religious good works and true new creation good works. For instance if money needed for the family is given instead to religious uses and made Corban (means a gift or offering consecrated to God) that is evil. (Mark 7:6-13, 1 Timothy 5:

(Mark 7:6-13 NKJV) He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. {7} And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' {8} "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men; the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." {9} He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. {10} "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' {11} "But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban"; ' (that is, a gift to God), {12} "then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, {13} "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."

(1 Timothy 5:8 NKJV) But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

6) True "New Creation" good works spring from faith working through love and are done in the power of the Holy Spirit. See the following almost identical verses in Galatians.
(Galatians 5:6 NKJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
(Galatians 6:15 NKJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.


7) True "New Creation" good works are done without thought of the approval of men - including any approval by a religious hierarchy or Christian community. That is not to put down such communal expressions of faith but to limit them within their proper bounds. Approval is given in Christ, by grace, through faith and is called "justification" and is freely given by God.
(John 5:44 NASB) "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another, and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?

Being holy is not the same as "being very religious". Being holy just means being set apart to God and living a life that obeys His commandments - the one another commands, Sermon On The Mount etc. True holiness also means being unstained by the works of the flesh such as fornication, witchcraft etc (see Galatians 5:19-21). Being holy is not external piety such as having Christian bumper stickers, lots of bibles and going to church five times a week. You can do all that and be very unholy. Being holy is being loving and righteous and joyful and thankful in the Holy Spirit.

9) Being perfect is not the same as "being very religious". Being perfect is being perfected in love so you can even love your enemies. The prefect Christian is perfectly loving. (Matthew 5:43-48 NASB) "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' {44} "But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you {45} in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. {46} "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax-gatherers do the same? {47} "And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? {48} "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

10) Unreligious people can still be perfect and holy and fulfill all the good works that God has created beforehand for them to do by having faith in Christ and loving their neighbour with perfect love in the power of the Holy Spirit. Life that is righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Spirit is simple and uncomplicated - as Jesus said "my yoke is easy and my burden is light". Thus Christians do not have to do a long list of religious duties in order to make God happy. God has been happy with them since the day they were born-again and happily gives them some duties in the Kingdom so they can demonstrate the love they have in their heart and be a blessing to their neighbour.




and that. my brothers and sisters, sums up my belief with regards to good works...

Protestant view tells people they can be infallibly saved once for all by just one act, taking Christ as their personal Savior. St. Paul had no such notion. If anyone should have been saved that way, it ought to have been St. Paul.

Yet Paul told the Corinthians, "But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway." (1 Cor. 9:27). So Paul knew he had to tame his flesh by mortification, much as athletes at the Isthmian games went into training. Hence, in 2 Cor. 11:23-27, he added fasting to all the great hardships that came with his apostolic work. He did not want to fall and risk being rejected at the Judgment.

If he were "infallibly saved," there would be no need of acts of mortification, because no matter how much he might fall, he would still be saved.



Again, in 1 Cor. 10:1-12, he is trying to induce the Corinthians to be willing to give up meat at times to avoid scandal, and he tells them in effect

, "Do not just say, we are the People of God-look at the first People of God. God did not approve of many of them, so He often had to strike them, even to strike them dead."

So Paul concluded in 1 Cor. 10:12, "Wherefore he who thinks that he stands, let him take heed lest he fall."

If they were all infallibly saved there would be no need for such a warning.

Still further, St. Paul told the Philippians (2:12),

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

The expression, "with fear and trembling" was a stereotyped one which meant only "reverently." Yet they had to work out their salvation-not get it in one quick stroke, infallibly, by "taking Christ as their personal Savior."