Philippine Open Canine Registry (POCR)

[ron.olivar]

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you just shoo-ed me away with this post.

Hi Sir Ironwood, =) . Thank you for the reply. Based on the threads you have started and the replies you have posted in them, I did not expect you to like the idea of mixed-breeds too, let alone not adhering to breed-standards, especially that you are a breeder of high-esteem and good record with PCCI =) with your WildCard Kennel's pugs and chis.

Yet, everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the way things are, don't you agree sir? =) basically POCR, as a Free Open Registry by nature is not an alternative to PCCI which has served as the "guardians" of purebred dogs here in the Philippines since time immemorial. POCR would serve all dogs purebred or not as long as the dog owner is responsible enough for their dogs and would only neuter or spay for either health, temperament, or if they think that they are unable to support the future litters of the dog to prevent strays.

I hope you understand the initiative of POCR and hopefully help us create it with your insight as well. =) Thank you and God Bless.

[Justice`Hugo]

@TS,

I am sorry but I don't get your point and purpose. In a way, you are espousing the idea that "cross-breeding" is fine as long as you are a responsible pet owner. What is of prime importance to you is that "POCR supports breeding for health and temperament." I'm afraid you are disoriented with the canine world. I don't know if you are aware that today, it seems the more people continue to breed for aesthetic and superficial qualities, the greater the risk our canine companions face of suffering from health and behavioural problems.

For instance, we have seen that crossing breeds which are not prone to disorders, such as hip dysplasia, eye problems etc, can reduce the chance of it appearing in any of the pups. However, if you are crossing two breeds which are predisposed to a condition that shows in their bloodline, you will certainly be setting up future generations for problems and heartbreak for owners.

You must be aware of the dangers irresponsible crossbreeding can produce and the need for good breeders to be PCCI registered to ensure healthy pups. You would take the same measures that purebred breeders take in making sure there have been no genetic defects in the previous generations, and when it springs up, you make sure the ill dog is not used for breeding.

You said, "Community project ni xa which hopefully will grow to help save our dogs from inherited behavioral and health problems." How do you do that?

[ron.olivar]

@TS,

I am sorry but I don't get your point and purpose. In a way, you are espousing the idea that "cross-breeding" is fine as long as you are a responsible pet owner. What is of prime importance to you is that "POCR supports breeding for health and temperament." I'm afraid you are disoriented with the canine world. I don't know if you are aware that today, it seems the more people continue to breed for aesthetic and superficial qualities, the greater the risk our canine companions face of suffering from health and behavioural problems.

For instance, we have seen that crossing breeds which are not prone to disorders, such as hip dysplasia, eye problems etc, can reduce the chance of it appearing in any of the pups. However, if you are crossing two breeds which are predisposed to a condition that shows in their bloodline, you will certainly be setting up future generations for problems and heartbreak for owners.

You must be aware of the dangers irresponsible crossbreeding can produce and the need for good breeders to be PCCI registered to ensure healthy pups. You would take the same measures that purebred breeders take in making sure there have been no genetic defects in the previous generations, and when it springs up, you make sure the ill dog is not used for breeding.

You said, "Community project ni xa which hopefully will grow to help save our dogs from inherited behavioral and health problems." How do you do that?

Hello sir Hugo, Thank you for the Insight! very much appreciated. I am well aware of the problems you stated. =)

you wrote " it seems the more people continue to breed for aesthetic and superficial qualities, the greater the risk our canine companions face of suffering from health and behavioural problems." - yes they do, and actually this is what "champions" in dog shows (not working class though) are bred from. Do you breed "pet quality" with "show quality" ? Not, if you want to continue a champion bloodline right (correct me if i am wrong)? And how do you define a "show type" dog from a "pet type" ? isn't it adherence to breed standards? =)

you wrote: "For instance, we have seen that crossing breeds which are not prone to disorders, such as hip dysplasia, eye problems etc, can reduce the chance of it appearing in any of the pups." - this sentence actually suggests cross breeding is good if you know the health background of the dogs (which POCR requires to be shown)

You also wrote: "However, if you are crossing two breeds which are predisposed to a condition that shows in their bloodline, you will certainly be setting up future generations for problems and heartbreak for owners." - The laws of Genetics basically is not limited to cross breeding. A Female carrier's genes will always mix with the Males genes (of course) regardless of breed.

So given for example, Doberman pinschers are prone to hip displaysia and VWD.
Let: A=Female Dobe ,B=Male Dobe
A and B tests negative for Hip Displaysia and VWD. But that does not mean that they no longer have the recessive genes of their ancestors so it is to be expected that all puppies would still carry the recessive gene and could still potentially show VWD and Hip Displaysia .

( A more simple example to how recessive genes are passed, breeding showtype Male with showtype Female does not guarantee that their litter would all come out as "showtypes" let alone that even atleast one pup is "showtype")

This scenario simply does not support the myth that inline breeding is better compared to cross.

Regarding the last question, dogs in the POCR database will not be shown unless their health has already been checked by a certified Veterinarian, It is really up to the owner of the dogs to discern which one is showing real health records and temperament assessments and by meeting the other dog owner and his/her dog in person (of course this is already given, you cannot judge a dog only through the internet).

POCRs way of helping is through showing the dogs' information to the public. That is Simply IT. Just helping to prevent Ignorance of these two (temperament and health) very important factors. =)

Thank you sir Hugo for the insight, I do not wish that you support this project but i do thank you for helping POCR with this insight. =) Very much appreciated.

PS:This is a very good documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbvv0vBf7t8

POCR will surely not please everyone, i don't expect everyone too. =)

[Justice`Hugo]

You said, "Not, if you want to continue a champion bloodline right (correct me if i am wrong)? And how do you define a "show type" dog from a "pet type" ? isn't it adherence to breed standards? =)." Even if both sire and dam are champions, we cannot disregard the fact that in each litter, there's a pet quality among show quality pups. Or all of them are pet quality. Or all of them are show quality. That's is why in the show world, before someone plans to breed his/her bitch, he/she has to do intensive research on the bloodline of the sire and find the qualities that his/her bitch is lacking.

I have nothing against your mission and vision of POCR. I am only against indiscriminate cross-breeding which POCR indirectly supports.

Anyway, good luck to you.

[Justice`Hugo]

@TS,

You cannot promote your own site by being bitter and antagonistic to others whom obviously you do not like. You might consider revision of your purpose and objectives.

[beowulf]

ganahan ko ani nga idea kay at least maka-trace ka sa ancestry sa dog nga imo plan nga i-breed (labi na gyud sa mga dili pcci-registered). like sa case sa mga dachshunds kahibaw na man ta nga kadaghanan diri sa cebu wala papers. maayo ni nga idea kay at least kon naa mag-breed sa ila dachshund masubay nila nga dili diay related kay simbako managsuon ra diay.

[ron.olivar]

@Sir Hugo, Thank you for the heads-up, I admit I am at fault, and yes i would revise the purpose and objectives soon. =) regarding indiscriminate cross-breeding, i would also think of ways (together with the other developers that have commited via facebook, and hopefully here in istorya too) on how to suppress this "side-effect".

[beowulf]

at least with this pocr thing, ma-eliminate nato sa equation ang direct but unintentional inbreeding

[danoote]

this is a great idea. i have been waiting for this kind of registry. however, based on the comments of some, it still needs some polishing.nevertheless, the TS has a wonderful thing going on here and i do believe his/her interntions are good.

i've seen the link...just want to ask: what if someone would like to register a single dog, does he/she need to have a kennel? what if the person who registered his/her pet is not a breeder?

anyway, hope this will be a success. good luck!

[fial]

Nindot ni nga idea. Full support. Wla nay maka-basta2x ug gamit a certain well-known kennel name to those na wlay papers. Kitang katag kay ma-trace man. Share lng ko, just absorb the constructive criticism sa mga istorians and neglect the non-constructive criticism kay nasuya lng na sila, in other words " Modern Pharises."