The KOBE vs JORDAN Debate

[thadzonline]

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Not unless the Lakers give Kobe the support he needed, he can't win a title. Crappy alibis? Nah, that is the truth. Unsa man intawn ang nakanindot anang Lakers kung wala si Bryant. Lamar Odom? Jordan got Pippen on his side, a star on his own right. And aside from Pippen, the Bulls had Ron Harper, Toni Kukoc and even Dennis Rodman for defense and Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright and BJ Armstrong during their first three peat, either way, Kobe and the Lakers are nowhere close to the 2 Chicago line-ups.

How good MJ's teammates are?

*Scottie Pippen was able to lead Chicago to the playoffs when Jordan first retired and even managed to make it to the second round before losing to their East rival the New York Knicks.

*Ron Harper used to average about 20+ points a game with the Clippers and just averaged about 8-9 points with Chicago.

*Toni Kukoc and Brian Williams are another Bulls players who averaged in double figures yet became role players in Chicago.

*Horace Grant's scoring averages went up when he left Chicago and played for Orlando and was another big factor for the Magic who made it to the 1995 NBA Finals.

The bottom line, everybody takes a backseat when they play alongside Jordan, who won't? It's because they respect him. And Kobe and his Lakers? Layo ra kaayo. Lamar Odom? If Jordan had Pippen, Kobe had Odom, yet comparing Odom to Pip? Odom is just taller, and that's it. Jordan's teammates can stand on their own and could become stars when they're on other teams but the Lakers? Everybody would still end up on the bench except for Odom. Remove Bryant from the Lakers and for sure they'll be heading to the lottery unlike Chicago who managed to make it to the playoffs.

Jordan is obviously the better player, leader and role model compared to Kobe and even if Kobe wins more championships on his own, he's still too far from MJ, yet saying that he's got mediocre teammates is a mere alibi or an excuse? It's not, it's the truth.

I couldn't agree more..the mere fact that MJ played for Chicago, everyone was willing to take a backseat, become a role player if that is what is needed to get a ring..and role players they were, they played their roles with passion to excel at it..If you look at that Chicago lineup, it wasn't the most dominant as seen on paper in the seasons they were champs, just imagine the kind of opposition they were up against: Larry Byrd and his Celtics, Patrick Ewing and the dirty Knicks, and oh yeah (during the first three-peat) Rodman and the rugged Pistons..MJ made his team better not by merely scoring but by LEADING..when we talk about legacy, it's not only the win that will matter, it's how you got there too..with all the flash and glitter of the Lakers championships a few years back with Shaq and Kobe, that still don't compare to the title runs of the Bulls or even the recent team-fuelled victory of the Spurs..

[thadzonline]

crappy alibis? check out lakers' current rosters

Kwame Brown
Andrew Bynum
Brian Cook
Javaris Crittenton
Maurice Evans
Jordan Farmar
Derek Fisher
Coby Karl
Chris Mihm
Lamar Odom
Vladimir Radmanovic
Ronny Turiaf
Sasha Vujacic
Luke Walton

Because of the BRILLIANT mind of Mitch Kupchack and Jim Buss..currently they have 7 guards...now can these guys help kobe win championships?? I don't think so. Andn can jordan win a championship with lakers' current rosters?? I don't think so also.

MJ needed his teamates and phil jackson to win championships...and vice versa.

Even when the Lakers had a star-studded lineup, the most dominant center in the league and a bunch of future Hall of Famers in their lineup, they couldn't get a ring that season(Shaq, Malone, Kobe, Payton were in that lineup)..Chicago wasn't necessarily the most dominant team on paper when they won championships, but playing as a team, players assimilating and performing their roles to almost perfection and with a leader that everybody respects and who listens to his coach as well, Chicago had wonderful runs..

Kobe? what did Phil Jackson write about him? He's one of the most difficult players to coach, when Jordan was 29, he has gained respect far more than what Kobe has gained as of the moment..But Phil Jackson had nothing but praises to MJ, maybe you want to read the book Phil wrote so you would understand my point

[djereza]

Even when the Lakers had a star-studded lineup, the most dominant center in the league and a bunch of future Hall of Famers in their lineup, they couldn't get a ring that season(Shaq, Malone, Kobe, Payton were in that lineup)..Chicago wasn't necessarily the most dominant team on paper when they won championships, but playing as a team, players assimilating and performing their roles to almost perfection and with a leader that everybody respects and who listens to his coach as well, Chicago had wonderful runs..

Kobe? what did Phil Jackson write about him? He's one of the most difficult players to coach, when Jordan was 29, he has gained respect far more than what Kobe has gained as of the moment..But Phil Jackson had nothing but praises to MJ, maybe you want to read the book Phil wrote so you would understand my point

The time lakers had malone and payton... they team had a lot of problems... Payton and Phil, Kobe and Shaq. The team had no chemistry already. Payton didn't like his role in the triangle. Kobe and Shaq had problems ever since. The team was in a brink of killing themselves..hehehe. Without chemistry, no team can win championships...

Yeap i did read the book. As Phil said in his interviews today.....the book was like a journal/diary. He was frustrated at that time due to Kobe's immaturity and EGO. But right now, as you listen to Phil about Kobe..all he's saying are all praises as well. He saw kobe grew up, getting wiser and matured. If you been reading any article about Phil on Kobe...i think you'll get my point.

[thadzonline]

The time lakers had malone and payton... they team had a lot of problems... Payton and Phil, Kobe and Shaq. The team had no chemistry already. Payton didn't like his role in the triangle. Kobe and Shaq had problems ever since. The team was in a brink of killing themselves..hehehe. Without chemistry, no team can win championships...

Yeap i did read the book. As Phil said in his interviews today.....the book was like a journal/diary. He was frustrated at that time due to Kobe's immaturity and EGO. But right now, as you listen to Phil about Kobe..all he's saying are all praises as well. He saw kobe grew up, getting wiser and matured. If you been reading any article about Phil on Kobe...i think you'll get my point.

and when Jackson now have praises for Kobe, it was too late coz the lineup has already disbanded because of those petty squabbles, would have MJ made a difference in the middle of those squabbles? I do think so, the character of MJ rubs off to his teammates..And the reason for those riffs in that Lakers lineup? everyone wanted to play the way he wants to be, no leader with MJ's charisma could gather all the egos to play their roles..Phil was lucky in chicago he had MJ..Harper, Kukoc, Longley and even Pippen are stars in their own right but they wanted a ring more badly they were willing to give what it takes be it fame, playing time and what have you

[yokam]

What made Jordan way better and created the gap from Kobe and to all players as well is his leadership and his ability to motivate and influence his teammates. Jordan leads by example while Kobe demands through talking.

Regarding Kobe, after the FIBA Finals against Argentina, he'll be back to reality with the Lakers and worse, might feel very heartbroken returning to Los Angeles. Kobe has finally experience how it is to play alongside Jason Kidd and worse, a deal involving Andrew Bynum could've gone a lot easier because of Kidd's interest to play for the Lakers. Now he's back with almost an entirely the same line-up they had last year and is expected to end up low in the Western Conference Playoffs and another probable early exit.

Though he's a bit overreacting at times, Kobe deserves more. He's been carrying the Lakers for 3 seasons and has proven that he's a capable winner. The management's interests just don't match Kobe's.

[djereza]

^^ Yeap.. thru the brilliant minds of Mitch and Jim.

[thadzonline]

well, maybe Kobe can tal a little less and with more propriety so he can get the respect from the top honchos of the Lakers organization, after all Jim and Mitch have egos too

[djereza]

He's been talking to the management for quite sometime and the management do nothing. All they give kobe are bull. He's frustrated right now..thats why he got out talking to the media.

[thadzonline]

well, yeah lisod jud for Kobe kay for one he is with a Lakers organization ng showbiz kaayo ang dating

[djereza]

Mao lagi..and Jerry Buss let his son Jim to run the business nga WALA gyuy hibaw.an. Believe kaayo na siya ni Bynum for crying out loud.

I know a lot of people here doesn't kobe...well me too...before...he was arrogrant, EGOtistic, immature.. but now as he getting older...he's more relax, lay back kind of guy and deadlier on the court. He and shaq are okay now and so as Phil. I think he's changed......he's got respect from me.

but still....the bottom line.... MJ is still a GOD. hahaha