The Church is responsible for over population in the Phils.

[benign0]

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You got it all wrong, dude. It is never the job of the Church to put man in a pedestal - making him the center of every endeavor. It is the job of the Church to point man to God - making God the center of all his endeavors. Ignorance and illiteracy? You never read real history, do you? The ones you read may probably be just those you want to accept. Ever heard of Thomas Aquinas? He was considered as the best mind of his times. Want more? I could enumerate more, but history are full with these Catholic intellectuals that I should not be telling you this fact. YOU should have known it.

You're right about one thing. The Church does point everyone to God, so much so that Pinoys spend more time praying for their fortunes rather than actually working for their fortunes.

Isn't it pathetic how Pinoys have such a high church attendance rate yet constitute the most corrupt and morally/intellectually bankrupt society? So much for all this "pointing to God".

And besides, isn't a commitment to God a spiritual thing? But then ask the typical Pinoy what being spiritual is all about and all you'll probably get is a quotation from the bible or, worse, a quotation from a catechism book.

Boy! You do know how to poison the mind. What's with the 'lead-poisoned' stuff? It does nothing to your argument except to arouse a negative feeling from the reader. Focus your argument to the facts regarding the issue at hand.

Here are the facts:

Fact 1: Pinoy society: Highest church attendance rate in Asia:
Fact 2: Philippines: poorest major Southeast Asian nation and one that exhibits the least promise.

The facts are staring us in the face, dude.

By your statement, you do agree that Ateneo 'churn out the best'. Catholic education is expensive you say. That actually goes against you. Most professional Filipinos then are never educated in a Catholic manner.

That's right, many were educated by the venerable State University.

Pray tell what would be your basis for this statement : One side of us clings to religious sacraments as a validation of our continued compliance to the black and white rules of our formal Catholic training and the other side gropes around for an alternate code ethics to deal with the real world of grey areas and a constant information deluge from other cultures. You should ask an Atenean or a Tomasian if his religious training has any signifance to him as a professional. Ask them if the Catholic code of ethics allowed them to navigate the 'real world' and still retain their sanity. False analogy?! Tsk.

Ask yourself this: Why has our society not come to terms with our love-hate relationship with Western culture? How modern we think we are yet how primitive and backward our regard for *** is. See how Westerners are comfortable with sexuality while ours is forever giggling and cringing about it.

It's part of the reason why this whole debate about population and contraception is still a hot item today -- because we are a people torn by our primitive need to comply with Church dogma and the realities of our human condition.

Be specific. What do you know as the reason behind the Dark Ages in Europe? Please cite reliable sources (because I will - in response). I wonder if you really knew what an inquisition is - or is it just another of your selective history?

Why don't you tell me. If you really do have reliable sources, then spell them out now. All my ideas are exposed for all to see here. And here you are trying to keep some kind of ace up your sleeve (at least you believe it is an ace).

Typical.

You're still in the Middle Ages. Come out of it. Provide specific to your accusations, and I'll answer them one by one.

You first, dude. If you supposedly have this mountain of evidence then it shouldn't be too difficult to share a few of them here, shouldn't it?

Just an advise : don't rely on innnuendos to incite your reader. That's a sign of a writer who lacks reliable data. He resort to stereo-typing and mud-slinging. Truth can be found. If found, it can set us free. Millions of Filipinos found the truth, and they are free - even if there are supposedly some who kept on spending their time on a paper bag.

The real truth lies here for all to see.

What's the matter? Can't handle the truth?

'Mane nobiscum, Domine!' --- Stay with us, Lord!

Shrinking back to prayer once again?

Where are the results?




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Visit www.getrealphilippines.com for more views like this.

[dacs]

You're right about one thing. The Church does point everyone to God, so much so that Pinoys spend more time praying for their fortunes rather than actually working for their fortunes.

How long a time is that?

Isn't it pathetic how Pinoys have such a high church attendance rate yet constitute the most corrupt and morally/intellectually bankrupt society? So much for all this "pointing to God".

Didn't you get it by now? People who do attend church activities are not forced to obey the teachings of the Church. They are free to reject or to assent. It leaves your argument - about the culpability of the Church - in shambles. Where is it taught in any Church document or in any pulpit that Catholics should be corrupt, that Catholics should be morally/intellectually bankrupt? You make connections where none actually exists.

Here are the facts:

Fact 1: Pinoy society: Highest church attendance rate in Asia:
Fact 2: Philippines: poorest major Southeast Asian nation and one that exhibits the least promise.

The facts are staring us in the face, dude.

Where is the connection? Where is the logical flow of evidence in these supposedly-connected 'facts'? Have you stared too long on these two 'facts' that you made yourself to believe that they are connected?

Duh?

That's right, many were educated by the venerable State University.

... and they are at the vanguard of a society that can't even find its way out of a paper bag.

Ask yourself this: Why has our society not come to terms with our love-hate relationship with Western culture? How modern we think we are yet how primitive and backward our regard for *** is. See how Westerners are comfortable with sexuality while ours is forever giggling and cringing about it.

Now, I am not sure if you really read history. Have you heard of the sexual practices of pagan Rome way before Christianity even set foot on that place? Have you read about the early sexual practices of the other cultures before Christianity came about? You are going backwards and you don't even know it.

It's part of the reason why this whole debate about population and contraception is still a hot item today -- because we are a people torn by our primitive need to comply with Church dogma and the realities of our human condition.

You make a basic assumption that a dogma is not realistic. Have you studied natural law? Moral law? Divine law? Even if you don't want to recognize them, they are still laws. Your non-adherence to them does not negate their existence.

Why don't you tell me. If you really do have reliable sources, then spell them out now. All my ideas are exposed for all to see here.

Dude, we're not in your webpage. Write it here for everyone to enjoy.

You first, dude. If you supposedly have this mountain of evidence then it shouldn't be too difficult to share a few of them here, shouldn't it?

Dude, what are you afraid of?

The real truth lies here for all to see.

What truth is there that is not real?

What's the matter? Can't handle the truth?

Your truth? 'Your truth' bounds one to an outdated and recycled ideology. Sorry.

Shrinking back to prayer once again?

Where are the results?

Have you tried? You should, you know. Many have done so and they were converted. Truth is, if anyone truly lives out the Catholic faith, he is a better man and a better citizen to his country.

Shalom.


'Mane nobiscum, Domine!' --- Stay with us, Lord!

[kiat_kaau_kusion_beh:-)]

me think not.

it may influence some not to use some of those contraceptives but it is us who are responsible for the over population - the lack of education/knowledge about the family planning.

[benign0]

Mr. dacs talaga. So many words and foot stomping but so very little substance.

First of all I never said the Church teaches corruption. In fact it teaches the opposite. Which makes the whole fact of endemic corruption in the Philippines even more bizarre-- a society of church goers and at the same time a society of thieves. Can you see the irony yet?

Which brings us to Facts 1 and 2 and the whole point of this debate. There is no connection. But that is my whole point. Why is there no connection between our religiousness and the way we behave as a society? What's the point of all the time and energy we spend on religious activities when it does not connect much less impact our behaviour.

And those educated elites? They are not the vanguard of Philippine society. People like Sharon Cuneta and German Moreno are the vanguards of Pinoy society because it's bozos like these that Pinoys look up to. But educated people? Not in your life. Pinoys' appreciation of intellectual achievement is nil at best.

And who are we to judge the sexual practices of pagan societies? We judge them using the mindsets that the Catholic Church have imbued in us for centuries. Many indigenous peoples originally practiced polygamy before they were "christianised". Or they had very little hang-ups about sexuality which after all is a natural human condition. Unfortunately sexuality is a natural human condition that the Church seems to have some kind of bizarre beef about. Are "pagans" bad people? The Church would like us to think so. But I ask you this: Who are we to judge? We don't like being judged by Muslims yet we are numero uno when it comes to judging what we call "pagans".

You call my truth an outdated and recycled ideology. That's your perception. And it remains a perception unitl you cite specific aspects of it that are false. Ideas don't have to be new to be true, dude. They simply have to be logical. And logic is pretty clear about the truth about Pinoys -- that we are an ignorant and backward society -- one that is highly susceptible to perverting the teachings of the Church. Because the Church is governed by a lot of bozos who wield so much power (because we are an ignorant and backward society), it becomes itself part of the problem.

Which is where your whole line of reasoning falls apart. I never made any assertion that Christian teachings are bad -- only that the custodians of those teachings, that human organisation called the Catholic Church of the Philippines is giving Christianity a bad name.

Tsk tsk. If you spent as much time thinking as praying, maybe you'd get half the concepts I mention here.

You simply further demonstrate that dark side of the Pinoys psyche -- highly judgmental and fundamentally flawed in thinking.



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[mannyamador]

Sigh... lots of sweeping generalizations, so few facts...

:Which brings us to Facts 1 and 2 and the whole point of this debate. There is no connection. But that is my whole point. Why is there no connection between our religiousness and the way we behave as a society? What's the point of all the time and energy we spend on religious activities when it does not connect much less impact our behaviour.

Assuming these facts are true, the question is whether this is the fault of the Church, or OUR fault?

Or they had very little hang-ups about sexuality which after all is a natural human condition. Unfortunately sexuality is a natural human condition that the Church seems to have some kind of bizarre beef about.

Kindly show how the Church's teaching about sexuality are bizarre. Do you even really know what those teachings are?

Because the Church is governed by a lot of bozos who wield so much power (because we are an ignorant and backward society), it becomes itself part of the problem.

Kindly cite specific examples and show me that the majority of Church leaders are bozos. You CAN'T can you? I thought so. Another unsupported rant sinks to the bottom.

The bottom line is that you are making unjustified, SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS based on flimsy, anecdotal evidence. Such accusations are IRRESPONSIBLE.

[benign0]

Sigh... lots of sweeping generalizations, so few facts...

:Which brings us to Facts 1 and 2 and the whole point of this debate. There is no connection. But that is my whole point. Why is there no connection between our religiousness and the way we behave as a society? What's the point of all the time and energy we spend on religious activities when it does not connect much less impact our behaviour.

Assuming these facts are true, the question is whether this is the fault of the Church, or OUR fault?

Or they had very little hang-ups about sexuality which after all is a natural human condition. Unfortunately sexuality is a natural human condition that the Church seems to have some kind of bizarre beef about.

Kindly show how the Church's teaching about sexuality are bizarre. Do you even really know what those teachings are?

Because the Church is governed by a lot of bozos who wield so much power (because we are an ignorant and backward society), it becomes itself part of the problem.

Kindly cite specific examples and show me that the majority of Church leaders are bozos. You CAN'T can you? I thought so. Another unsupported rant sinks to the bottom.

The bottom line is that you are making unjustified, SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS based on flimsy, anecdotal evidence. Such accusations are IRRESPONSIBLE.

Guess again, dude. I never said that the "majority" of Church leaders are bozos.

Then again some fat dude who walks around with all those robes in our tropical climate expecting people to kiss his ring ain't exactly my idea of what a non-bozo is.

You are making a lot of noise about my assertions without really understanding what my assertions are.

And here is an example of a bizarre Church teaching on sexuality:

Having "impure thoughts" is a sin.

Try telling that to a teenager.


No wonder this Church of ours is on a continued slide to irrelevance.






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[mannyamador]

Guess again, dude. I never said that the "majority" of Church leaders are bozos.

You said the Church is GOVERNED by bozos. So either you show the majority of them are bozos, or the ones who do the actual fgoverfning are bozos. You have FAILED to show either

You are making a lot of noise about my assertions without really understanding what my assertions are.

You are making UNFOUNDED assetions, as I have shown above. If you idsagree, prove your point as I have also asked above. You can't, right? And by the weay, wearing robes doesn't make one a bozo. But make sweeping generalizations DOES.

And here is an example of a bizarre Church teaching on sexuality:

Having "impure thoughts" is a sin.

Try telling that to a teenager.

Helllo? How is that suppoosed to be bizarre? Is it bizarre just because a teenager doesn't like it? What kind of *****ic reasoning is that? Come on, you should know better. You don't really have any prooof, do you? I figured as much.

[benign0]

Guess again. Governing entities are not necessarily the najority. PLus I alreadt cited one candidate for bozo-hood.

Well if you are so convinced that I am making "unfounded" assertions then prove they are false. Those "sweeping generalisations" I make? Prove they are false too. Here's one: Filipinos are ignorant. That is my generalisation. Prove it is false if you please (or dare ).

And considering having "impure thoughts" a sin is bizarre -- not because teenagers beg to differ but because nobody can ever claim to have a total lack of impure thoughts - specially teenagers who are at a stage in life where having impure thoughts is more the rule than the exception.

Yet the church condemns those who do. Tsk tsk. Talk about unreasonable.

Claiming my assertions are "unfounded" simply because you say so is real quaint, dude. Unfortunately it fails to convince.

Try to think a little harder. I know it's difficult because we are after all Pinoy. But try anyway.




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[dawn runner]

Benigno? This guy has no credibility. Maayo ra nis butbot ning tawhana. Korap ra gihapon ning daku. Ay mog too ana niya.

[HoundedbyHeaven]

And considering having "impure thoughts" a sin is bizarre -- not because teenagers beg to differ but because nobody can ever claim to have a total lack of impure thoughts - specially teenagers who are at a stage in life where having impure thoughts is more the rule than the exception. Yet the church condemns those who do. Tsk tsk. Talk about unreasonable.

Well, nobody can ever claimed to have a total lack of incorrect answers in algebra, especially high school freshmen who are at a stage in life where having errors in computation is more the rule than the exception, yet the algebra teacher (heck, even the algebra tutor) condemns those who make mistakes in algebra, like say -3 - [-4(9-(-6)/2)] = -45. Tsk, tsk. Talk about "unreasonable". Shame on you algebra teachers and tutors! I'll never go to school again!

Peace, so be it.