MERGED: Vigilantism and related issues

[gareb]

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I'm in... Wala nay human rights, human rights.... Samok-samok lang na murag welga-welga sa streets...

Pina old west bah... an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth

bitaw...

kung ikaw'y mapasanginlan, mangita man lagi ka ug abogado.

[gareb]

for BoyBastos, Ian_C and tolstoi

my point in mentioning the so called 'dynamics of crime' is to impress the idea that to solve the problem of criminality, we first must know what we are dealing with. only in understanding fully how criminality happens in the first place can we administer apropriate solutions, which are not quite (and does not even come close to) the desperate call for allowing summary executions.

granted that criminality is a social problem, the solution can also be found somwhere within the society. criminality arises from particular social arragements; how well society defines goals (wealth, prosperity) and how accessible are they (by means of schooling and education, job opportunities etc.)

the path to 'conformity' is achieving the said goals through approved means. a 'success story' then is someone who actually gains a high standard of living through hard work and talent. but not everyone who desires these goals attain them. i think u are not unfamiliar with the balooning unemployment rate, as well as the astronomical costs of placing ur kids to school. that is why people raised in poverty may see little hope in actually attaining the said goals if they 'play by the rules'. they then may seek these goals through one or another kind of crime.

but the picture is not that simple. criminal deviance does not result simply from the lack of legitimate opportunity, but also in the availability of illegitimate opportunities. u see kids and young men growing up in criminality because it is the only alternative that they have to actually get to where they want in life. the presence of illegitimate opportunities also can be used as an explanation for your everyday corrupt politician who siphon your taxes off you and uses every available connection he can muster to maintain himself in power (if he wants to). ( http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/301/301lect09.htm )

and here comes punishment. the number 1 aim of punishment of course is retribution; to 'put into balance the social scale that has been upset', people ask for blood. koykoy's 'eye for an aye...', however medieval, is a reflection of this. second is deterrence. tolstoi's wanting to drive them away to other places and/or discourage them from commiting criminal acts again, is an example of this. we have a third which is rehabilitation; a relatively recent concept arising from studies that suggest that crime sprung from unfavorable environments, and that aside from being punished, criminals should be 'rehabilitated' so that they can integrate with the society again. rehabilitation resembles deterrence in that both motivate the offender into conformity; main difference is that rehabilitation emphasizes constructive improvement. and your favorite, guys is no. 4; societal protection, which is temporary incarceration (prison) or a permanent solution (execution) aimed at protecting the society from the offenders. these, of course arise from the inability or the unwillingness of the state to remold and rehabilitate its felons.

all of these, as you may know pass a certain formal process of the identification of guilt in the part of the accussed. disregard this process, and you do not differ from any other ordinary criminals. and that is law.

incidentally, the fact that only suspects accused of 'petty crimes' are only the ones victimized by this lust for blood tells so much of the double standard that society has for 'criminals'. as Ian_C would suggest, you have to be subjected to one of these hold-ups to actually feel for yourself the trauma. funny one does not hear about trauma when politicians are rumored to reign in millions of bucks from the public treasury. and you seldom hear anybody being prosecuted for it. clearly there is a double standard to who does the robbery.

a factory owner reserves the right to close down an unprofitable factory even if it causes the loss of thousands of jobs. but if the workers commit an act of vandalism that causes the factory to close for a day, then they face criminal prosecution. in the same light, people who rally on the streets denouncing the city/national goverment of the lack os basic social services for the poor gets charged with disturbing the peace. presidentiables, senatoriables, mayoralty candidates do the exact same thing during the election period, and they get extensive police protection. clearly there is something wrong here.

so there you have it. before you go on ranting about these 'criminals' of yours, see first why they have become criminals, what maintains them to be such, and how (un)effective the so called 'rehabilitation centers' which does no such thing as rehabilitation and does not even come close. the very standard that you follow on who is in your hit list or not (small fries and big fishes respectively). the justice system that you mock. and even some of the very laws that you supposedly follow.

[orkayl]

kung if thats the case im sure they have their rules to not to shoot the civilians..
--> if case they do.. they should be a penalty, or punishment also..<<--

[monrose29]

sos oyy..

unsa man diay atong gusto.. dili na sila patyon.. ipa preso taga-an og chance nga mag bag-o? taga-an nato og due process of law..

murag kadaghan naman ta kadungog anang istoryaha.. cge lang due process.. human rights....ug unsa panang uban diha... karon unsa may resulta.. na-a ba?

ni us2x ba ang crimes sa cebu?...

kong ikaw one of the leaders deri sa cebu.. unsa man imong buhaton para masikop ng mga tulisan og di na manulis og balik?

[cebutech]

uy...

bitaw naa jud mga tao na maayo lang istorya. unsa kaha kung cla na ang mabiktima aning mga criminal. or mabiktima ilang mga love ones. di kaha ni cla maghimo ug ilahang death squad? :P

let's be realistic. enough with the they-deserve-a-second-chance, they-deserve-due-process blah blah blah. they know that what they're doing is wrong so they better face the consequences of their actions.

i'm not saying that what the death squad is doing is right. but they can help eliminate or scare away some criminals which the police or our crippled justice system can't handle. anyway, they'll have their judgement day too.

so far wala pa man tingali inocente gipang.patay so ok ra na.

[koykoy]

I'm in... Wala nay human rights, human rights.... Samok-samok lang na murag welga-welga sa streets...

Pina old west bah... an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth

bitaw...

kung ikaw'y mapasanginlan, mangita man lagi ka ug abogado.

Pasanginlan? I think tanan gipamatay diri sa death squad dili na man ni "pasangil" lang... Naa na man gani ni records, in and out... Murag Sandara ba.. hehehe "In or out, am I in or out..."

Kun pasangil pa lang, patyon na, that's a different story... If that's the case, then our good Mayor could have striked the "suspect" nga supposedly mu-ambush niya (remember the van that carried high-powered firearms, SWAT vests, etc. in Lapu-lapu)

OT: Uzumaki, last time I inquired, 15K limpyo... That means dili na ikaw ang mag secure sa affidavit of threat, neuro-test, drug-test, etc and guaranteed faster... If ikaw ang magsecure tanan, half ra (7.5K) and dili guaranteed na madali... hehehe Hasta ang goverment agencies kamao na sa basic rule in economics and marketing: Price Discrimination... hehehehe

[kyle_nexus]

gareb you said it well...

unsa man ang mga butang nga imong nabuhat sa dakbayan sa sugbo nga nakapagamay o nakapaminos sa mga kawatan ug kriminal gawas sa mga maanindot ug matam-is mong pulong?

[arnoldsa]

these Death Squads should go after big time DRUG PUSHERS and Corrupt Politicians rather than go after petty crime makers who have nothing in this world except their lives perhaps... They should also go against those Frat Members who kill innocent passersby after being mistaken of a member of a rival group..

[arnoldsa]

Quite a point for some of the posters here but even the CPP/NPA reserves the right to maintain and create a hitlist for those who simply criticize them...

[koykoy]

these Death Squads should go after big time DRUG PUSHERS and Corrupt Politicians rather than go after petty crime makers who have nothing in this world except their lives perhaps... They should also go against those Frat Members who kill innocent passersby after being mistaken of a member of a rival group..

i agree..