All about Roman Catholicism here.

[godCode]

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allahu akbar! allahu akbar! mana loto ako popcorn!

[mosimos]

Maayong Pista Sr. San Isidro de Labrador!!!

[at8n1981]

Maayong Pista Sr. San Isidro de Labrador!!!

pun.i pa na mosimos uy!

[sinsiyo]

maayong pista!!!

[weedmeister]

@bcasabee: sorry for not replying to your question bro... had to leave right away, and i had no connection the whole weekend... in reply to your question, you should first read the bible and search for a church that most resembles the bible teachings... a lot of christian churches do... Â*a king james or a new international version of the bible should be good as they follow the original with less additions from the catholic church....

pwede sad kong maki-partake sa popcorn? hehehehe taga-i sad si mosimos og mannyamador... easy lang, basin matuk-an ha.... hehehehe Â*:mrgreen:

@whiteoleander: you do that bro... you have nothing to add here anyway... hahahahahaha Â*


@ mannyamador... nice of you to drop by sir... Â*:mrgreen:

so, since you are so knowledgeable in church happenings, do tell me how pope paul I died? you should know, he was your pontiff, right? i mean if my "VICAR OF CHRIST" died mysteriously, i would want to know what happened... although it seems that your compatriots in your faith don't really give a rat's ass... hehehehe Â*:mrgreen:

Kindly name me even ONE private organization that gives as much to the poor as the Catholic Church. The Church, in case you don't know, runs more hospitals, orphanages, feeding centers. homes for the poor and marginalized, huiman rights monitors, etc. than ANY other private organization. It cares for over 20% of all AIDS patneits in the world. NO OTHER PRIVATE ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD gives as much to the poor.

they should, my friend... a lot of poverty and sickness is indirectly caused by the vatican... OVERPOPULATION is one, AIDS, due to the ban on condoms is another... who the hell cares anyway? they're all gonna inherit heaven, right? but wait, they have to get through purgatory first... and how are they gonna pay for the masses to get them the hell out of there? dunno, coz some wealthy families here in cebu are still paying for yearly masses for their dearly departed who died 50 years ago... and they still pray to save their souls... seems hose guys are living in purgatory for good eh? by the way, bible reader, where in the bible does it talk about PURGATORY?

oh, and maybe you should research on the REAL wealth of the vatican before you blow your mouth off... how much do you think the VATICAN CITY, i mean the real, material property called the vatican city, is worth? $15billion is nothing, my friend... the art alone would be more than that... how about the documents? the relics? the land? the buildings? and that's only in one city...

here is a collection of paragraphs from THE VATICAN BILLIONS by Avro Manhattan:

"The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

"In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. This leaves a net worth of Five Hundred and Seventy-one million dollars ($571,704,953). It is not difficult to discover the truly astonishing wealth of the church, once we add the riches of the twenty-eight archdioceses and 122 dioceses of the U.S.A., some of which are even wealthier than that of Boston.

"Some idea of the real estate and other forms of wealth controlled by the Catholic church may be gathered by the remark of a member of the New York Catholic Conference, namely 'that his church probably ranks second only to the United States Government in total annual purchase.' Another statement, made by a nationally syndicated Catholic priest, perhaps is even more telling. 'The Catholic church,' he said, 'must be the biggest corporation in the United States. We have a branch office in every neighborhood. Our assets and real estate holdings must exceed those of Standard Oil, A.T.&T., and U.S. Steel combined. And our roster of dues-paying members must be second only to the tax rolls of the United States Government.'

"The Catholic church, once all her assets have been put together, is the most formidable stockbroker in the world. The Vatican, independently of each successive pope, has been increasingly orientated towards the U.S. The Wall Street Journal said that the Vatican's financial deals in the U.S. alone were so big that very often it sold or bought gold in lots of a million or more dollars at one time.

"The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

"The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars."

So, you are going to say that the writer does not know what he is saying, etc... well, you write a book and tell the world then... Â* so why is no one else surprised by the vatican's wealth? recall our history... recall when the priests used to give away tracts of land in the philippines "until the eye can see" or as far as "you can ride on your horse in one day"... fiction? truth. a part of my family got their wealth that way. Â* of course there were favors given to the church though... hehehehe


Yes. In fact, it's the Church that has doctrines most faithful to the teachings of Christ. Yours isn't.

mine is based on the bible, GOD'S ABSOLUTE WORD, yours is based on human interpretations of the bible... where does it say EXPLICITLY in the bible that there should be a POPE? or a CARDINAL? give me the passages, my friend... Â*:mrgreen:

and here is a good summary of a pope's life:

(The following are quoted from William Manchester's "A World Lit Only by Fire- The Medieval Mind and The Renaissance"..Little, Brown & Company, 1992)

"Once he became Pope Alexander VI, Vatican parties, already wild, grew wilder. They were costly, but he could afford the lifestyle of a Renaissance prince; as vice chancellor of the Roman Church, he had amassed enormous wealth. As guests approached the papal palace, they were excited by the spectacle of living statues: naked, gilded young men and women in erotic poses. Flags bore the Borgia arms, which, appropriately, portrayed a red bull rampant on a field of gold. Every fete had a theme. One, known to Romans as the Ballet of the Chestnuts, was held on October 30, 1501. The indefatigable Burchard describes it in his Diarium. Â*After the banquet dishes had been cleared away, the city's fifty most beautiful whores danced with the guests, "first clothed, then naked." The dancing over, the "ballet" began, with the Pope and two of his children in the best seats.

Candelabra were set up on the floor, scattered among them were chestnuts, "which", Burchard writes, "the courtesans had to pick up, crawling between the candles." Then the serious *** started. Guests stripped and ran out onto the floor, where they mounted, or were mounted by, the prostitutes. "The coupling took place," according to Burchard, "in front of everyone present." Servants kept score of each man's orgasms, for the Pope greatly admired virility, and measured a man's machismo by his ejaculative capacity. After eveyone was exhausted, His Holiness distributed prizes- cloaks, boots, caps, and fine silken tunics. "The winners", the diarist wrote, "were those who made love with the courtesans the greatest number of times."

About the Pope and his daughter, Lucrezia:
"His daughter had just turned seventeen and was at the height of her beauty. We now know that he was, in fact, her lover. ..Here, however, the tale darkens. Romans had scarcely absorbed the news that the father lusted for his daughter when they learned even more. Lucrezia was said to be unavailable to her father because she was already deeply involved in another incestuous relationship, or relationships- a triangular entanglement with both her handsome brothers. Â*The difficulty, it was whispered, was that although she enjoyed coupling with both of them, each, jealous of the other, wanted his sister for himself.

On the morning of June 15, 1497, Juan Borgia's corpse was found floating in the Tiber mutilated by nine savage dagger wounds.

"Borgia's enjoyment of the flesh was enhanced when the woman beneath him was married, particularly if he had presided at her wedding. Breaking any commandment excited him, but he was partial to the seventh. As priest he married Rosa to two men. She may have actually slept with her husbands from time to time- since Borgia always kept a stable of women, she was allowed an occasional night off to indulge her own sexual preferences- but her duties lay in his eminence's bed. Then, at the age of fifty-nine, he yearned for a more nubile partner. His parting with Rosa was affectionate. Later he gave her a little gift- he made her brother a cardinal."

There were critics of the corruption in the church, and they invariably met gruesome deaths. Girolamo Savonarola, (1452-149 gave marathon sermons denouncing the church's hypocrisy saying "The Papal Palace had literally become a house of prostitution where harlots sit upon the throne of Solomon and signal to the passersby. Whoever can pay enters and does what he wishes." At last, "the Pope condemned him as a heretic, sentenced him to torture, and finally had him hanged and burned in the Plaza della Signoria."

A day in the life of a pope... BOW! nyahahahahaha Â* this could be worse than the show JACKASS...



Luke 12:33 Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don't grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn't fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys.

EXACTLY! You just shot yourself in the foot!

Huh? your reply has no basis... what do you mean?



Why is the Church that rich in gold?

It's NOT. You are grossly misinformed.

who says? the pope? nyahahahaha! if i am misinformed, you are BLINDED by your FAITH in persons who have FAITH in GOLD...


So if you are "saved", you can commit mass murder and you will stil be saved? What garbage!
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

See how shallow your understanding of the bible is... you have to think, man! the mass murderer NEVER had faith to begin with. it's all in the heart. "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved." (Mark 16:16) means that IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE, YOU WILL FOLLOW JESUS' TEACHINGS, AND OF COURSE GOOD WORKS WILL FOLLOW. but good works is not a requisite, do you understand? GOOD WORKS is a PRODUCT of you belief and love for Jesus, not a pre-requisite to salvation... becuase once you TRULY BELIEVE, and get BAPTIZED, you will automatically do good works... IT IS JUST AN EFFECT.

i can just imagine the physically paralyzed catholics who cannot do good works... they will go to hell since they cannot do good works... then again, they can pay their priests to interceed on their behalf, eh? Â*:mrgreen:


You just contradicted the Bible!

au contraire, i clarified it. Â*


Yes, of course. The issue I was addressing was that some ignoramus was accusing the Church of not doing much to help the poor. I siimply refuted his false and misinformed claim.
It might also be interesting to note that the money the Church has to engage in all these activities for the poor is FAR LESS than that of mutlinational corporations and aid agencies. Yet, the Church gets more done with less money!

AHA! there's the rub! your multinational corporations and aid agencies are not following a book (the bible) and a leader (Jesus) who said "Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don't grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn't fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys."

So are you saying that just because they are giving less than 10% of their assests to the needy that they are already following Jesus rule? Do you even believe what the bible says? or are you leaning more towards the VATICAN? if the pope issues a papal bull stating that you should burn alive any non-believers, would you burn me? Â* wait a minute, that papal bull was already issued before by INNOCENT IV (was he really innocent? heheheh)... whoops... anyway, would you?



Wikipedia?!! You base your claims on online documents that can be edited by ANYONE? Give me a break! I can post a story there claiming I am god.

Dude, i'll take you up on that... link me when it's done, okay...? thanks and peace! Â*:mrgreen:

[Freeza]

a lot of poverty and sickness is indirectly caused by the vatican... OVERPOPULATION is one, AIDS, due to the ban on condoms

hahahaha what a crap do you realy expect us to believe this story the go on and multiply sayings had nothing to do with overpopulation it is of social,education and poverty and the individual itself had to do with these ovepopulation issue, and about the AIDS yes the church is still a bit conservative,but even though you have dozens of condoms i bet you have tons of it hehehee most probally you will be still infected if you dont stop youre style of sexual practice such as multiple partners,soliciting the services of a prostitutes,...etccc which you could avoided at the first place if you follow the teachings of any faiths or religions...

[mosimos]

Mannyamador:

Please refrain from further engaging with wedmeister. Â*This thread is for us Catholics to share our faith, tos hre something we have in common. Â*If there are detractors, just ignore them. Â*Anyway, we could respond but if they will not listen still, leave them or else the mods might construe that we are engaging in debates. Â*This might be locked.

So I plea to you dont respond to the crap that this person is saying about the Catholic church. Â*It will be an endless and useless engagement.

Malipayong Pyesta kang Sr. San Isidro de Labrador!

[mosimos]

a lot of poverty and sickness is indirectly caused by the vatican... OVERPOPULATION is one, AIDS, due to the ban on condoms

I cant ignore this one. Ang Catholic Church na hinooy gibasol tungod sa AIDS. Why? does the Church bring the AIDS epedemic? Another conspiracy theory.

You are barking a wrong tree. Tame your sexual urges. YOu cannot have your cake and eat it too and blame it to the Catholic Church. Thats quite unfair and outrageous.

[weedmeister]

Ain't it funny that the two guys who are rising up in arms to defend their faith have a "WARNED" stamp on their avatar... hehehehe, guess you "couldn't keep your faith in" eh? You just had to share your "kind words" with your brothers and sisters here eh... oh well, i won't post where i'm not welcome to... you have your Vatican, and i have my Bible... when the time comes and Jesus walks the earth again, i hope you won't be found lacking... peace brothers.... Â*


oh, and i'm hapilly married with 4 beautiful kids... i played around before, but that was until i got into a boatload of trouble, and a pastor was able to share Jesus' teachings with me... I'm not perfect, far from it, but i know who i am answerable to, and it ain't a man in fine robes... its a carpenter who walked our world 2000 years ago and who said "spread the word".... I just thought that being a part of the catholic church, most of you guys would have known about it's "COLORFUL" past and the fact that it doesn't abide by the Bible... I just wanted to "spread the word", but it seems your hearts are hardened... maybe one day, when you really seek Him, you will find Him.

[mannyamador]

a king james or a new international version of the bible should be good as they follow the original with less additions from the catholic church....

The KJV is full of corruptions and additions from the translators revealing their personal interpretations. It also lacks the Deauterocanonical books wich the Aposltes themselves used and referred to. Catholic Bibles are complete. The KJV is not.

so, since you are so knowledgeable in church happenings, do tell me how pope paul I died?

Info on Pope Paul I at this URL:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11577a.htm

How is it relevant to our discussion?

a lot of poverty and sickness is indirectly caused by the vatican... OVERPOPULATION is one, AIDS, due to the ban on condoms is another...

What garbage! Overpopulation is a myth. Poverty is caused by greed. If we follow your logic, then we should jsut eliminate all people. Then there wpon't be sickness. Your logic is ABSURD!!

and they still pray to save their souls... seems hose guys are living in purgatory for good eh? by the way, bible reader, where in the bible does it talk about PURGATORY?

That statement shows how totally IGNORANT you are of Catholic teaching. Try reading before you attack a doctrine you don;t know anything about. You'll look less stupid and prejudiced that way.

Those in purgatory ARE ALREADY SAVED, Purgatory is atonement. It is also taiught in the Bible.

how much do you think the VATICAN CITY, i mean the real, material property called the vatican city, is worth?

Far less than the city of Cebu. In case you haven't tried thinking about it, assets that cannot be sold aren't really worth much. If you talk about selling off the Vatrican buildings, that is like selling off the entire country (the Vatican is an independent state)! They can't do that because they will then have no place to go. So the idea itself is absurd.

See how shallow your understanding of the bible is... you have to think, man! the mass murderer NEVER had faith to begin with.

If we folow your logic, then any so-called "born-again" christian who sins NEVER had faith! Maybe YOU should try thinkiing.

i can just imagine the physically paralyzed catholics who cannot do good works...

You mean you equate good works with physical action?! Boy, your thinking is really screwed! Good works includes prayer, words, etc. You don't have to walk aropund to do good works. What IGNORANCE!

So are you saying that just because they are giving less than 10% of their assests to the needy that they are already following Jesus rule?

Jesus never said you have to give 10%. That is just your church's way of raking in the money.