MERGED: All About Pacquiao vs. Marquez III

[ming_li]

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Pacland's Philippine Boxing Forum • View topic - ***Exposing Juan Manuel Marquez...***

Why do people want to see a Pacquiao vs Marquez fight?
Answer: To see who's the better man of the two.

But we've seen three fights already and what did we see?... right, the same thing over and over again. Why? Have either fighter made any changes to try to out do the other? As far as Pacquiao is concern, I believe and everyone else know for a fact that Manny improved a lot since their first fight. But How about Juan Manuel Marquez? I think he did as well but not that much. I think Marquez only improved a little especially on his head movement.

But how come despite the improvement on Manny compared to his other fights with other fighters, his fight with JMM always ends up almost the same? This is on the premise that our eyes are strictly focused on Pacquiao. But if we try to take a look at Marquez' fights and analyze, what do we see and notice that will give us clue on why their trilogy always ends up a close fight?

As far as Pacquiao's other fights are concern, I believe that we can all agree that he made a huge difference from before and now. Even when he fights JMM I think we can all agree that of the two, Pacquiao is the one who's really trying hard to make a difference to make something happen by being always the aggressor and initiating the action. Marquez on the other hand, if we compare his previous fights, I think the key to this enigma is his fight against a superb counter puncher Chris John. That fight was also a close fight and Chris John won a decision.

What does this mean? This means that Marquez is only effective against all forward all aggressive careless fighter. Because his style is merely to wait for his opponent to make mistake when coming forward. Other than that, when he encounters a superb and careful counter puncher like Chris John and Pacquiao, his ability to win with his style greatly diminishes. But usually ends up a close fight because of the nature of "play safe" kind of style. The only difference between Chris John and Pacquiao is that Pacquiao can also be a good attacker at the same time.

However, the reason why Pacquiao can't attack Marquez the way he do against other non-superb-counter punchers is because Marquez' combination of counter punches naturally neutralizes the combination of any attackers which therefore minimizes the effectiveness of any combination of any good attackers. This is why we always see Pacquiao ending up doing just single punching or 1-2 combination on Marquez.

This illusion makes people think that since Pacquiao can't do what he usually does against other fighters with Marquez, it makes Marquez like a great fighter because he seemed like the only guy who can give Pacquiao a close fight. But if we try to understand, what does Marquez do to really beat Pacquiao?... NOTHING. Against a careful counter puncher like Pacquiao and Chris John, he almost can't really do anything else unless his opponent tries to keep on coming forward so he can score.

Conclusion: Based on the above, this is the clear reason why no matter how many times both fighters (Pac vs JMM) fights, it will always be the same. As long as Marquez keeps being a counter puncher and does not decide to really engage Pacquiao head on, it will always be a close fight. Worse, I don't think Marquez will ever try to be an aggressor against Pacquiao, because he learned it the hard way in their 1st 2 fights that Pacquiao is so good a knock down artist that he can't afford to be knocked down again and lose. The best that Marquez can do is to make an illusion that he is the better fighter by just limiting Pacquiao's abilities to attack. But in reality, he can't do anything to really beat Pacquiao such as to KO him, knock him down, or clearly lopsidedly out punch him to make a difference. Marquez would always want a rematch only for the hopes that during the course of their fight, Pacquiao would make an amateur mistake. But Pacquiao is way past that level if he thinks Pacquiao will commit such kind of mistake.

bantog ra d i.. so this means pure counter puncher ra jud d i ni c JMM.. sakto jud kaau bsag unsaon ni JMM d jud sya mka TKO ni PACMAN unless mu engage head on c JMM.. bantog ra na KO sya adtong previous fights pero bilib lng jud ko ni JMM kay mu tindog jud bsag na KO sya.. hehehe so d na jud kailangan ug rematch c PACMAN kang JMM oi.. mkg rematch ra man c PACMAN kay na disappoint nya ang mga tao na wa nya na TKO c JMM.. hehehe

[ming_li]

pildi pakyaw oi klaro kaaus reaction after sa 12th round.. hasta pag announce kisa daog.. plastic kaaug reaction pagkibaw niya daog siya... ngano man lagi sauna after sa 12th round kay ngisi ngisi dayn nya alsahon dayns iya trainer... unsa may deperinsya sa last niya nga fight?

i like pacman. but i don't kiss his ass...

disappoint c PACMAN brad kay wa nya na TKO c JMM.. dili ingon na pildi sya.. kay mi announce bya c ROACH na i-TKO nla c JMM aron ma settle ilang fight..

[noysabas]

disappoint c PACMAN brad kay wa nya na TKO c JMM.. dili ingon na pildi sya.. kay mi announce bya c ROACH na i-TKO nla c JMM aron ma settle ilang fight..

coz nakita nila nga giunsa pag kulata ni gayweather sa 144lbs c marquez...

pound for pound ranking sa sports illustrated ug sa espn nahagsa sa no. 2 spot si pacman... unsay pasabot dili deserving ang kadaugan ni manny?

ring magazine (sa golden boy) pabiling number 1 si manny and take note bias ni sila kay kang gayweather ni sila modapig permi.. kahibulongan?

sumala pa sa akong tapad "pilde unta ko sa pustaanay may gani GIPADAOG si pacquiao"

y man basta muingon nga peldi si manny ato nga fight ignon dayon nga hater? ana di ay na?

btw... support usa ta sa atong pinoy boxers ubay2x ron ang mo fight para sa gold sa 26th sea games sa indonesia..

[noysabas]

Pacland's Philippine Boxing Forum • View topic - ***Exposing Juan Manuel Marquez...***

Why do people want to see a Pacquiao vs Marquez fight?
Answer: To see who's the better man of the two.

But we've seen three fights already and what did we see?... right, the same thing over and over again. Why? Have either fighter made any changes to try to out do the other? As far as Pacquiao is concern, I believe and everyone else know for a fact that Manny improved a lot since their first fight. But How about Juan Manuel Marquez? I think he did as well but not that much. I think Marquez only improved a little especially on his head movement.

But how come despite the improvement on Manny compared to his other fights with other fighters, his fight with JMM always ends up almost the same? This is on the premise that our eyes are strictly focused on Pacquiao. But if we try to take a look at Marquez' fights and analyze, what do we see and notice that will give us clue on why their trilogy always ends up a close fight?

As far as Pacquiao's other fights are concern, I believe that we can all agree that he made a huge difference from before and now. Even when he fights JMM I think we can all agree that of the two, Pacquiao is the one who's really trying hard to make a difference to make something happen by being always the aggressor and initiating the action. Marquez on the other hand, if we compare his previous fights, I think the key to this enigma is his fight against a superb counter puncher Chris John. That fight was also a close fight and Chris John won a decision.

What does this mean? This means that Marquez is only effective against all forward all aggressive careless fighter. Because his style is merely to wait for his opponent to make mistake when coming forward. Other than that, when he encounters a superb and careful counter puncher like Chris John and Pacquiao, his ability to win with his style greatly diminishes. But usually ends up a close fight because of the nature of "play safe" kind of style. The only difference between Chris John and Pacquiao is that Pacquiao can also be a good attacker at the same time.

However, the reason why Pacquiao can't attack Marquez the way he do against other non-superb-counter punchers is because Marquez' combination of counter punches naturally neutralizes the combination of any attackers which therefore minimizes the effectiveness of any combination of any good attackers. This is why we always see Pacquiao ending up doing just single punching or 1-2 combination on Marquez.

This illusion makes people think that since Pacquiao can't do what he usually does against other fighters with Marquez, it makes Marquez like a great fighter because he seemed like the only guy who can give Pacquiao a close fight. But if we try to understand, what does Marquez do to really beat Pacquiao?... NOTHING. Against a careful counter puncher like Pacquiao and Chris John, he almost can't really do anything else unless his opponent tries to keep on coming forward so he can score.

Conclusion: Based on the above, this is the clear reason why no matter how many times both fighters (Pac vs JMM) fights, it will always be the same. As long as Marquez keeps being a counter puncher and does not decide to really engage Pacquiao head on, it will always be a close fight. Worse, I don't think Marquez will ever try to be an aggressor against Pacquiao, because he learned it the hard way in their 1st 2 fights that Pacquiao is so good a knock down artist that he can't afford to be knocked down again and lose. The best that Marquez can do is to make an illusion that he is the better fighter by just limiting Pacquiao's abilities to attack. But in reality, he can't do anything to really beat Pacquiao such as to KO him, knock him down, or clearly lopsidedly out punch him to make a difference. Marquez would always want a rematch only for the hopes that during the course of their fight, Pacquiao would make an amateur mistake. But Pacquiao is way past that level if he thinks Pacquiao will commit such kind of mistake.

nice source PACLAND

[rics zalved]

the only way nga ma prove kinsa ang no. 1 ug no. 2 pound for pound kay ang Pac-May fight, naglibog pa ron ang kalibutan kinsa nilang duha..mao nga kinahanglan daugon na na...saonz man ni si May nga bayot man, aw naa ra na niya kung ang ubang taw di pa siya iconsider nga no. 1 kay di man moaway ni Pac...si Pac bisan ug in doubt nga siya ang No. 1 pero siya ra ang nakahimo ug championship sa 8 divisions..

[koontz_circle]

he must send Pacquiao to the canvass which all of us know is less likely to happen if ga cge lang siya ug counter punch.

it's boxing and knocking out the defending champion is not necessary to beat him via decision. Marquez did enough beating Pacman through counter-punching. But he was robbed before our eyes.

[æRLO]

coz nakita nila nga giunsa pag kulata ni gayweather sa 144lbs c marquez...

pound for pound ranking sa sports illustrated ug sa espn nahagsa sa no. 2 spot si pacman... unsay pasabot dili deserving ang kadaugan ni manny?

ring magazine (sa golden boy) pabiling number 1 si manny and take note bias ni sila kay kang gayweather ni sila modapig permi.. kahibulongan?

sumala pa sa akong tapad "pilde unta ko sa pustaanay may gani GIPADAOG si pacquiao"

y man basta muingon nga peldi si manny ato nga fight ignon dayon nga hater? ana di ay na?

btw... support usa ta sa atong pinoy boxers ubay2x ron ang mo fight para sa gold sa 26th sea games sa indonesia..

Pero tan.awun nato ang strategy ni Marquez against Mayweather and compare it to Marquez with Pacquiao and it is different. Marquez was the attacker (but was still counter-punching) and Mayweather the defensive counter-puncher... Marquez-Mayweather was the first fight between them, Marquez WASN'T all that cautious fighting Mayweather and he got pummeled, he tested the theory behind Mayweather's chin but couldn't because being the attacker is not JMM's inclination now. That's different if you're talking about Pac and JMM, they are RIVALS and Marquez had faced him twice already to understand that Pac is not one to take lightly especially with his deadly combination of speed and power. And he understands he cannot go toe-to-toe with Pacquiao. Marquez in several occasions went toe-to-toe with Mayweather but he could not do damage because Mayweather is known for his defense. So again, it seems logical that Mayweather would easily beat Pacquiao, but you have to factor in these facts.

[æRLO]

it's boxing and knocking out the defending champion is not necessary to beat him via decision. Marquez did enough beating Pacman through counter-punching. But he was robbed before our eyes.

Not my eyes. Along with Khan, even DLH admitted the first time he saw the fight, Marquez won, but after observing the fight for scoring purposes it was definitely Pac's. That's the difference when you watch for entertainment or technical scoring really. I'm not trying to validate my perspective with his, but that is the emerging trend. It's different when you watch the fight for SCORING purposes and not limited to who is the underdog or who had the advantage coming into the fight.

[koontz_circle]

It's not just Amir Khan, Even Oscar Dela Hoya admitted that while he had Marquez winning by 2 he says it was a close fight and agrees it could have gone either way.

ahmm.. i'm starting to wonder if Amir Khan is isterested in fighting with Pacman for a bigger pay. pogi points rana nila. Utro pod na si De la Hoya. He's a promoter, he should change his mind para dili magka business conflict with Manny.

[thadzonline]

nice source PACLAND

regardless of the source, the rationale and logic holds water