Discussion on the Christ Jesus.

[Techfinder]

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How did Christ use the word "ONE"?

Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

Here we have the prayer of the Lord Jesus for His sheep, His disciples. Verse 21 states that they interindwell each other [the Father and the Son]. Now notice verse 22:


THAT THEY [HIS DISCIPLES] MAY BE ONE JUST AS WE [THE FATHER AND THE SON] ARE ONE.


Was the Lord here praying that his disciples of different personalities become one person just as the Father and the Son are one person granted if the Oneness doctrine is true? Of course not. That would dehumanize his disciples.

Just as the Father and the Son are one, He prayed that His disciples maybe one [united one].


The pattern of the disciples oneness is the oneness of the Father and the Son. Notice the word "Just":


Joh 17:22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

If the Lord prayed that His disciples become one person just as the Father and the Son are one person then this prayer was never granted. For they remained distinct personalities althroughout their lives.

According to John 17:21-22, Christians should be one with each other just as Jesus was one with the Father. Does this destroy our belief that Jesus is the Father? No. In this passage Jesus spoke as a man - as the Son. This is evident because He was praying to the Father, and God does not need to pray.

In His humanity, Jesus was one with the Father in the sense of unity of purpose, mind, and will. In this sense, Christians can also be one with God and one with each other (Acts 4:32; I Corinthians 3:8; Ephesians 2:14).

We must remember that the Son is not the same as the Father. The title Father never alludes to humanity, while Son does. Although Jesus is both Father and Son, we cannot say the Father is the Son.

In John 17:21-22, Jesus, speaking as a man, did not state that He is the Father. However, other passages describe the oneness of Jesus with the Father in a way that transcends mere unity of purpose, and in a way that indicates Jesus is the Father. This is an additional level of oneness that is beyond our attainment because it speaks of His absolute deity. When Jesus said, "I and my Father are one," the Jews correctly understood Him to mean He was God, and they sought to kill Him (John 10:30-33). On that occasion, He did not merely claim unity with God but identify with God. Jesus also said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9). No matter how united a Christian is with God, he could not make that statement. No matter how united two Christians are, one could not say, "If you have seen me, you have seen my friend." The same is true of a husband and wife, even though they are one flesh (Genesis 2:24). So, the oneness of Jesus and the Father means more than the oneness that human relationships can attain. As a man Jesus was one with the Father in the sense of unity of purpose, mind, and will (John 17:22). As God, Jesus is one with the Father in the sense of identity with the Father - in the sense that He is the Father (John 10:30; 14:9). (Oneness Pentecostal Theology)

If the Son is just the Father, why bother pray to the Father when He Himself is the Father?

What is then the real meaning of Christ Prayers if he was not speaking to another person in the Godhead?

Simply, he was doing an INTERCESSION for us! Same with that of the Holy Spirit! (We know the Holy Spirit could not pray to another God) And Jesus not only prayed (interceding) but also LED A RELIGIOUS LIFE with God.

In John 11:41-42. Jesus prayed, "Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me." This prayer was just prior to the raising of Lazarus from the dead. The mourners and family members around the tomb were the audience of this prayer (vs. 19, 31-32, 39, 41).

The purpose of Jesus' prayer was not just for an example to the onlookers, but to serve as confirmation to the message of Jesus, and bolster faith in Him, that He was indeed the Son of God (manifestation of the father).

Note: Jesus had no reason to pray for the raising of Lazarus. This was due to the fact that He already knew it was the will of God to raise him from the dead.

Since Jesus knew it was the Lord's will to raise Lazarus from the dead, there was no real purpose in praying for it to happen. Just as with us, the Lord knows what we have need of before we ask Him (Matthew 6:. Maybe Jesus prayed simply because it is a Scriptural principle that we will receive an answer when we ask for it (James 4:2). Jesus demonstrated His faith in God by addressing Him in a word of prayer before performing His will. If you notice, Jesus never asked the Father to raise Lazarus from the dead. He thanked God that He was always heard by Him. Jesus was assured of the Lord's will, and was merely giving thanks for it. This is what He said for the Jews' sake. He prayed to the Father to demonstrate to the Jews that, indeed, what was about to transpire was a work of God done through Him, and not a work of His own apart from God. If they believed it was done by God, then Jesus' claims as to His identity would be justified and believed too.

Do the prayers of Christ indicate a distinction of persons between Jesus and the Father? No. On the contrary, His praying indicates a distinction between the Son of God and God. Jesus prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other "persons." This one example effectively destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.

His Prayers are mere

Why use the word "US" [see verse 21] if they are just one in person?

One other passage with a plural, John 14:23, deserves special attention: "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." The key to understanding this verse is to realize that the Lord was not speaking of His bodily entrance into us. Moreover, if there are two Spirits of God, one of the Son and another of the Father, then there would be at least two Spirits in our hearts. However, Ephesians 4:4 declares there is one Spirit. We know John 14:23 does not mean bodily entrance because Jesus had said, "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you" (John 14:20). Certainly we are not in Jesus in the sense of the physical. So, what does this passage mean? It means a union - one in mind, purpose, plan, and life - with Christ. This is the same idea expressed in John 17:21-22 when Jesus prayed, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

If, on the other hand, a person were to interpret John 14:23 and 17:21-22 to describe the union of two separate persons in the Godhead, then to be consistent he would have to interpret the Scriptures to mean that believers become members of the Godhead just as Jesus is. Clearly, then, these passages allude to the union with God that the Son of God had and that we can enjoy by believing and obeying the gospel.

[dartzed]

thanks brad, btw, kinsa man ang mga trinitarians diri, pwede ako nasad ang mu interrogate?..hehehe

that i cant answer ky i dont know the people here that much i just enter-act with them based on what they posted... well makasabot rman sad ka based sad sa ila mga post.. words tells it all, bantayi lang makaila raka ana nila...

[Techfinder]

that i cant answer ky i dont know the people here that much i just enter-act with them based on what they posted... well makasabot rman sad ka based sad sa ila mga post.. words tells it all, bantayi lang makaila raka ana nila...

unsa atong religion brad? if you don't mind.

[dartzed]

Katoliko Romanano...

hahaha

pariha ta o dili?...

[dulpeks]

Katoliko Romanano...

hahaha

pariha ta o dili?...

pareha ra ta....peace dartzed!!...FAITH jud...mao jud ang impt sa??...

[Techfinder]

Katoliko Romanano...

hahaha

pariha ta o dili?...

hehhe,,,i'm catholic but not roman

[dartzed]

hehhe,,,i'm catholic but not roman

well thats ok religion doesnt matter to me... but im not ashamed to be a Roman Catholic still..

pm ko nimo ky maOT ta ug maau naa ko questions...

[Techfinder]

well thats ok religion doesnt matter to me... but im not ashamed to be a Roman Catholic still..

pm ko nimo ky maOT ta ug maau naa ko questions...

bitaw, I'm a born again christian.

[dartzed]

bitaw, I'm a born again christian.

hhhhmmmm

hala ka deny ka imo true religion.. hahaha

"words tells everything"

anyways just ignore nalang my pm, i just wana know your true religion...

anyways back to topic nata kay OT na au tah waaaaaaaaaaaaa...

[dartzed]

pareha ra ta....peace dartzed!!...FAITH jud...mao jud ang impt sa??...

yup mao btaw ako mo tanan idiscourage ug cge pahambogay kinsa tinuod na doctrina or church dre.. ky kung ako lang pasultion basn usa dre na religion walay sakto.. hehehe well sa ako lang nuon na opinion..

hehehe