Second Look on Islam

[Malic]

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You are very kind thank you. Please answer me in the context of that time.



Thank you for answering my questions objectively.

1. So Muhammad consummated that marriage out of love, compassion, and for political reasons when Ayesha was nine years old? Doesn't seem so saintly to me.

2. So Muhammad chose to wash his hands when he could have saved lives? Pilate is vilified in Christianity for having done the same to Christ but Muhammad is made the prophet of Islam.

3. So Muhammad tolerated the practice instead of making a stand? Doesn't he advocate dying in defense of the religion? Hold your ground in the name Islam but look the other way when you see slavery.

Sad.

Then im going to answer you according to the context of that time.

During that time and according to their custom young marriages are allowed. This custom was already practiced earlier before the prophet Mohammed was born(peace and blessings be upon him). Take for example Mary,: According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was 12 years old when she became impregnated. According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."


maybe not too saintly to you because you have a different outlook of what a saint should be. David married many wives. Moses killed or participated in the killings of the innocent babies in the name of God. These acts are not too saintly either according to human calculations. One can become a saint not because of what one has done but how one obeys the command of God.

But as ive said its not abnoraml or even morally incorrect to marry a girl of that age, by virtue of their custom and moral standard. Now if you think that your morality is higher than them then thats your own call just dont impose your own version of how things should go.

Cain married his sister, Noah made love to her daughter in laws or was it His sons?(correct me if im wrong pls). These acts are void of any morals if we are to interpret it w/in the light of modern thoughts.



About the battle in trench.

those people were jews who betrayed the treaty between them and the prophet Muhammed(pbuh). Tere was a treaty between the prophet and the Jews to defend the city they were living in together
against any outer enemy but what happened is that they tried to help the prophet's enemy to enter the city from a back door, and according to war laws specially during their time was traitors should be killed. They sold out the prophet's warriors and betrayedtheir treaty, they were major traitors.

Hope that helps.

[Malic]

asalam alaikum,
sadiq malic, why is it necessary for a muslim woman to cover her hair? what is your take about some muslim women who chose not to cover their hair?

asalm alaikum to you brother,

Thats an external sign of modesty, its kinda remind you of your duty before The most merciful,magnificient, Allah.

well, thats their own call and we need to respect that but during worship they should wear their hijab.

why? As ive said, its an external sign for modesty and a reminder to be morally upright before God and men. Hijab will remind you to dress properly, We dont want our women to be a sexual object. And i think most women should wear proper dresses too, to avoid being mis interpreted by males. Your dress speaks of your inner qualities. If wearing sexy dresses showing a lot of skins is how you want to attract men then i should say that you are sending a wrong message to them.

how would you like your men to love you? do you want them to love you because of your body,cos you showed them a lot of skins. what if youll get fat and aged, wht is there left to love? nothing.

Or do you want them to love you for who truly you are. You are a person not a sexual object. your body doesnt mean anything. Your modesty speaks of power and control,it sends a message to guys and the message is "This body is not yours for the taking so love me for who i am, i am not your play toy. I am in control" thats the message of modesty and it starts in wearing your hijab.

[Malic]

Hear this beautiful Islam "call to prayer" video n audio

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EAvlimEYEpQ


you should hear it its so beautiful.


thanks to istorya.net for such a wonderful forum. May Allah prosper you and bless your life and works.

[MRchurchill]

snip

I never imposed any version on anyone. Neither did you contradict any of the facts I stated as being false. So at least we are in agreement that they actually happened. By the way lest you get carried away I for one see religion as nothing more than mere superstition. So comparing certain "Muhammad" facts to what shortcomings the icons of Judaism and Christianity did does not make them any less evil. I have no issues with polygamy whatsoever since it served a purpose back then. But you brought it up nevertheless.

"One can become a saint not because of what one has done but how one obeys the command of God."

Muhammad is the prophet so you say. How much of his wrong doings (if they were even wrong at all) were answers to God's call?

you do know the difference between a six year old girl and a 12 year old right? Jews at least did not consummate marriages until the onset of puberty. It was not uncommon for people to bear children in their early teens during that time considering life expectancy was at the late 20's. But to consummate a marriage with someone who is SIX years old who has not yet even reached puberty!? How the hell do you justify *** with a child? Well different principles back then I guess so different set of morals. But didn't the cries of the child at least bother the prophet?

For me Mahatma Gandhi acted more saintly than David, Moses, and Muhammad ever did combined. That is my concept of a saint and not that of David or Moses. David and Moses did what any dictator, monarch, or tribal leader did during those turbulent times. Same goes for Muhammad and newsflash: all three had blood on their hands in the name of God.

The fact remains that these people be their title savior or prophet all acted human because that's what they were.

Points to ponder, please explain: Kill non-believers

4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. <------ Will you kill me too friend should you have the chance? Please don't.

[angelfyre]

IMHO, islam is one of the most misunderstood religions, esp now, na uso ang terrorist attacks. i have muslim friends, and i have nothing but kind words for them. i was one of those who thought na it was a 'bad' religion, coz of certain practices [having many wives, not eating pork, etc], pero if people are just open minded and do some research [dli ky limited lang sa isa ka book!], makasabot jud mo.

wala man sa religion ang deprensya, naa sa taw. bsan unsa pa nga religion, kung yabag gane, yabag jud.

[Malic]

I never imposed any version on anyone. Neither did you contradict any of the facts I stated as being false. So at least we are in agreement that they actually happened. By the way lest you get carried away I for one see religion as nothing more than mere superstition. So comparing certain "Muhammad" facts to what shortcomings the icons of Judaism and Christianity did does not make them any less evil. I have no issues with polygamy whatsoever since it served a purpose back then. But you brought it up nevertheless.

"One can become a saint not because of what one has done but how one obeys the command of God."

Muhammad is the prophet so you say. How much of his wrong doings (if they were even wrong at all) were answers to God's call?

you do know the difference between a six year old girl and a 12 year old right? Jews at least did not consummate marriages until the onset of puberty. It was not uncommon for people to bear children in their early teens during that time considering life expectancy was at the late 20's. But to consummate a marriage with someone who is SIX years old who has not yet even reached puberty!? How the hell do you justify *** with a child? Well different principles back then I guess so different set of morals. But didn't the cries of the child at least bother the prophet?

For me Mahatma Gandhi acted more saintly than David, Moses, and Muhammad ever did combined. That is my concept of a saint and not that of David or Moses. David and Moses did what any dictator, monarch, or tribal leader did during those turbulent times. Same goes for Muhammad and newsflash: all three had blood on their hands in the name of God.

The fact remains that these people be their title savior or prophet all acted human because that's what they were.

Points to ponder, please explain: Kill non-believers

4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. <------ Will you kill me too friend should you have the chance? Please don't.

now you are imposing. Now you are interpreting ancient cultures w/in the light of modern interpretations. I already told you, IF you're going to interpret these customs within the blanket o another custom you'll find yourself in a state of confusion.

I already gave you the facts...Mary was 9, whats the difference? The Prophet Muhammad consumated the marriage when that little girl reached the right age. If you want to question islamic principles better be euip and at least get your facts straight.

hahay so there you go,if you think Mahatma is more saintly then so be it. Mahatma was convinced thaT he did the right things, so was the prophets. They acted according to what they thought was right w/in the context o that time.


Oh quoting scriptures like that shows ignorance of proper interpretations. Dont quote a verse out o its context. you dont want that for yourself, right? you dont want people to misquote your statements.


if you are doing this out of hate,you should stop it.

if you are doing this out of pride,showing off to people how right you are and how bad my religion is, you better stop it. Why you should stop it? because hate and pride can cost a lot, your health,your emotions and your sanity.



If the verse you gave be interpreted the way you think about it, You should ask yourself why are we not on world war 3, There are billions of muslim out there, i you think that muslims interprets that particular verse as go and kill non-believers like how the way you suggests then maybe ill be going out together w/ billions of muslims out there killing people randomly. But you dont see that right? So it only means one thing, that the interpretation o these billions o muslims on that particular verse contradicts your VERSION.

[Hellblazer 2.1]

IMHO, islam is one of the most misunderstood religions, esp now, na uso ang terrorist attacks. i have muslim friends, and i have nothing but kind words for them. i was one of those who thought na it was a 'bad' religion, coz of certain practices [having many wives, not eating pork, etc], pero if people are just open minded and do some research [dli ky limited lang sa isa ka book!], makasabot jud mo.

wala man sa religion ang deprensya, naa sa taw. bsan unsa pa nga religion, kung yabag gane, yabag jud.

nice thoughts. ('c',)

[Hellblazer 2.1]

i think sadiq malic is one intellectual muslim. mabrook. masalam.

[MRchurchill]

now you are imposing. Now you are interpreting ancient cultures w/in the light of modern interpretations. I already told you, IF you're going to interpret these customs within the blanket o another custom you'll find yourself in a state of confusion.

I already gave you the facts...Mary was 9, whats the difference? The Prophet Muhammad consumated the marriage when that little girl reached the right age. If you want to question islamic principles better be euip and at least get your facts straight.

hahay so there you go,if you think Mahatma is more saintly then so be it. Mahatma was convinced thaT he did the right things, so was the prophets. They acted according to what they thought was right w/in the context o that time.


Oh quoting scriptures like that shows ignorance of proper interpretations. Dont quote a verse out o its context. you dont want that for yourself, right? you dont want people to misquote your statements.


if you are doing this out of hate,you should stop it.

if you are doing this out of pride,showing off to people how right you are and how bad my religion is, you better stop it. Why you should stop it? because hate and pride can cost a lot, your health,your emotions and your sanity.



If the verse you gave be interpreted the way you think about it, You should ask yourself why are we not on world war 3, There are billions of muslim out there, i you think that muslims interprets that particular verse as go and kill non-believers like how the way you suggests then maybe ill be going out together w/ billions of muslims out there killing people randomly. But you dont see that right? So it only means one thing, that the interpretation o these billions o muslims on that particular verse contradicts your VERSION.

This isn't going anywhere and this is your thread after all so I must respect it. The better for everyone if I just let it be. You are a kind muslim though I may have pissed you a bit. Well I am heavily biased against religion so there you have my reasons.

To your credit you are very kind and I sincerely hope all muslims are like you. Peace.

[Hellblazer 2.1]

now that's what i call religious tolerance. i admire that intellectuality in people.