Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

[marine77]

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TS:
If I may ask which country are you in now?
Or if you happen to be in the Philippines, proudly Asia's cradle and bastion of christianity where people (not just priests) mostly preached or counsel you about having faith, then look around and tell me what you see.

Centuries later after the Spaniards came and gave us the "gift" of religion what happened? did it do us any good?
What became of the Philippines now? Are we better of than, even, any of our south east asian neighbors?

nindot jud part makasabot ta on what true christianity really is. kay dili tanan nga gadala sa pangalan nga christian are following unsa ang true teachings diha sa bible.

dili gani nato ma deny tingali nga mas daghan nga christians ang wala maka-open ug basa sa bible.

[NNNN]

Basi sa examples nga akong gihatag part, it is only by FAITH alone atong ma attain ang salvation. ang imong works nga mo follow will be for a reward. Dili tinuoray ang usa ka faith nga dili mobunga ug pagkamatarung. Dunay panahon nga mo waive atong faith mao nga motipas ta usahay sa dalan nga dili mao but it is still there---waiting to be rekindled. Also, the HS will often talk to our conscience.

example:
Inig abot sa 15 ug 30 sa buwan, imong gihatagan ug katungod imong asawa nga mo withdraw sa imong sweldo tungod sa imong pagtuo (faith) sa iyaha nga maayo siya modala sa kwarta. Pero kung moingon ta nga nagtuo ka nga maayo imong asawa modala unya magduha-duha ka ug hatag sa iyaha, imong faith diha dili tinud-anay. So tungod ra jud sa imong genuine faith duna na kay confidence sa paghatag sa imong atm.

by the way, ang pagkamatarung brod ug doing good works are 2 different things.

Try these steps:

1. When you wake up, sit on a comfortable seat like on the sofa.
2. Believe and have faith in God so that you will be saved. As you said, faith alone can save you.
3. Do not eat breakfast, lunch, dinner.
4. Repeat steps 1 to 3 for 3 more days.

Maluwas ra ka ana sa imung pag-too? Mahimo ba nang reward ang pamahaw, paniudto, ug panihapon? Or is it also a need para ka maluwas?

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Salvation can also be consider a reward. Sa imung example, you are saved or rewarded tungod sa maayo nga pag-hipus sa kwarta sa imung asawa. Nag-involve gihapon ni xag trabaho in addition sa faith. Naa kay pag-too (faith) nga maayo mudala imung asawa og kwarta. Pero naa kay pagsalig (trust) nga buhaton jud na niya. Imung pag-salig mao nay ma-consider nato nga work. (Work is not just the use of hands man. Software Engineers work with their minds in addition to hands.)

Ang imung example kay neutral or positive event man. Pero sa akong examples nga negative event, dili ka makaingon nga faith ra nimo ang makaluwas, except if ang taw way laing choice kundi mamatay jud. Consider examples like a hold-uper attempts to kill you if dili ka muhatag sa imung selfon. Suwayi og pag-salig sa Ginoo and ayaw i-hatag imung selfon, pusilan jud ka.

[How'sThat?]

But why is it that good works cannot save us? Here are five answers to that question. First, good works can't cancel your sin but sin ruins your good works. Suppose you invite me over for breakfast one morning and offer to fix a three-egg omelet. As you begin to cook, I smell a putrid odor coming from the kitchen. What's that awful smell? Oh, it's just a rotten egg. But don't worry, I added a few good eggs that will cancel out the rottenness. Do you think I would eat your omelet? Not for a million dollars. Why? Because goodness doesn't cancel rottenness but rottenness ruins goodness. The same is true in the spiritual realm. You can’t be good enough to cancel out the putrid effect of your own sins.

wrong analogy. imo gi design imong analogy to defend your point, its called dishonesty. are you a Christian? damn, i thought Christians are honest people.

kong rotten na ang eggs ilisan og lain nga eggs, kinsa gud tawn nga tao in his right mind mo serve og rotten nga eggs? aw sigoro kamo mga born again Christians kay inyo man ni nga analogy. ka wa pod sense ani nga klase nga analogy. try again.

Second, good works can't save you because God doesn't grade on a curve. He demands absolute perfection. If you understand the Bible, you know that it only takes one sin to send you to hell. Let's suppose that you somehow only committed three sins a day. That's impossible for most of us because we commit that many sins before getting out of bed in the morning. But let's give you credit for being very, very good. And let's further suppose that you never committed more than three sins a day for your entire life. That would be over 1000 sins a year, which would mean that in 70 years you would end up with over 70,000 sins on your record. Now let's further suppose that those sins were really speeding tickets. If a police officer stopped you for running a red light and discovered that you had 70,000 outstanding speeding tickets on your record, what would he do with you? You'd end up in jail so long they would throw away the key. Do you think God is any different? But you and I commit far more than three sins a day. Our sins are like a mountain-so high we can’t climb over it, so wide we can't walk around it, so deep we can't tunnel under it. Our sins are so great that our works could never save us.

first of all according to your book it was God who created this imperfect world. why blame us if we aren't perfect? see how contradictory your Christian faith is? An earthly father mo pasaylo man gani sa iyang anak if the son would make amend his wrong doing by a good deed nya imong Ginoo dili? unsa klaseha gud na nga Ginoo.

Third, good works can't save you because you can never be good enough long enough. Just when you get a "good streak" going, you sin and have to start all over again.

then start all over again. you know what kalooy ba nimo you are so brainwashed by your pastor to think this way.

well that's how we are created, blame your God not us. himo ka og pusil nga kagar nya imo na hinoon basolon ang nipalit sa imong pusil? ka immature gud ana nga batasan.

Fourth, you can never be sure you've done enough. That's why most religious people have no assurance of their salvation. They truly believe that being good will get them to heaven. But as we've already seen, "doing good" is never good enough because we can never do enough to pay for our own sins.

says who? again kini nga klase nga mentality obvious kaayo nga na brainwashed ni sa mga pastor. Good works can bring you to heaven my friend.

let's ask Paul, Faith w/o work is dead. what good is your faith is wa nay good work. A man is justified pina agi sa iyang good work. Even Demons believed(faith) in God but are they saved? hmmmmm.

There is one more answer to consider. Good works can't save you because if they could, you wouldn't need Jesus at all. Why would Jesus die on the cross if somehow you could save yourself? When we get to heaven, no one will be able to say, "You and me, Jesus, we did it together. I baked the cookies and you died on the cross." It's either all by Jesus or all by your own efforts – and nothing in between.

Jesus is your link to the father, in fact w/o Jesus' GOOD WORK(sacrifice) wa moy access sa Ginoo.

see si Jesus man gani mobohat og good work nya kamo pa kaha.

[How'sThat?]

nindot jud part makasabot ta on what true christianity really is. kay dili tanan nga gadala sa pangalan nga christian are following unsa ang true teachings diha sa bible.

dili gani nato ma deny tingali nga mas daghan nga christians ang wala maka-open ug basa sa bible.

and how would you determine a true christian?

[How'sThat?]

kini man gud Faith alone can saved you nga mentality is rooted sa idea nga ila gi conceptualized ang Ginoo nga mora og HUMAN BEING.

let me quote something posted somewhere...

Popular religions, such as Christianity and Judaism, have developed an idea of God that is an enlarged image of a human being, with human qualities and faults. For example, the God of Christianity is a loving father, and at the same time, sends people to eternal hell. The god of the Old Testament is someone who repents and changes his mind (Deut 32:14, Gen 6:6, etc.), who gets angry and wrathful (Job 20:23, Isa 34:2, etc.), who gets jealous (Exo 20:5; 34:14, etc.), who shows powerlessness in certain circumstances (Judg 1:19), and who can often be cruel and atrocious (e.g., Josh 10:40, etc.).


delikado kaayo ni nga concept kay you are scaring people, mao ng di jud mo mosalig sa inyong human capabilities kay lagi you were so brainwashed nga ang Ginoo maglagot ninyo and will send you to hell if wa moy faith sa niya. tsk tsk.

[How'sThat?]

they say faith can save you? let's see...

what is faith anyway? it is a belief in a deity nga wa pa ma proven nga ni exist. A diety that only exist in a book whose authors are mostly unknown and revised many times to the point nga ang original meaning sa word nagka anam na og ka way klaro.

now i wouldn't depend on that.

what about good works? bisan asa ka sa kalibutan people will admire you kong bootan ka. it will earn you a good reputation. Mo admire man gani nimo ang tao for doing good works nya ang Ginoo dili? LOL!

[masterjanuarius]

If you will read the whole chapter... the good refers to the sheep those are people who are already beend saved

Bro, saved by what By FAITH alone? or by the WORKS: feeding, visiting, giving drink to Jesus through .."the least of his brothers"? Unya, kadtong wa mo hatag ug ilimnon, pagkaon ..etc etc .. wa man lagi ma saved: Away from me ..." ingon niya? Be, unsa may ikasulti nimo ani? Inon pa si st James: show me your faith without works .. and I will show my works that underlies my faith .. paraphrasing him here ...

Kamo ba mga nakatuon lang ug Bibliya, pinaagi sa inyong Bible Study with your pastor ... mura na ug naka sabot na sa tanan nga gisulat ... unya kana inyong gi MEAN: Faith alone can saved ... mao kaha na ang gi mean ni St. Paul sa iyang pagsulat ana nga verse? Ngano dili man sa mo mohunong .. mag reflect .. mobalik sa panahon ni Paul .. sutaon ug unsa gayod iyang gipasabot sa "faith alone can save" .. mao ingon nga term: sitz inlieben ... na ug unsa ni sya pangutan-a ang mga germans ..
ayaw dayon mo ug sangyaw sangyaw ug gamay ray inyong nahibaloan mahitungod sa pagtoo o sa bibliya .. kay maka hatag mo ug confusion hinuon .. ingon pa si st Paul sa iyang sulat sa Corinto: all spirits should be tested ... because all does not come from God ... aguy ... asa man mo ani? Basin gikan lang sa pastor ninyo ang tanan ninyong gipamulong ... ug dili sa tinuod nga Spirito Santo ... subaya ninyo mga pari sa simbahang katoliko: 13 ka tuig ka eskwela mahitungod sa bibliya ug tinuhuan .. tan-awa mag pataka ba sila ug putak putak?
Deep knowledge brings about HUMILITY; shallow knowledge breeds PRIDE! and PRIDE is of the devil's.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

So in as long as I have faith I can do any stupid thing I want and any wrong things possible. Wait, I don't even want to consider that...

P.S. Is this what some religious people hold on? Explains a LOT..

Good thing that you asked. NO, if you really have faith then you would not do things that are WRONG. Good works is the manifestation of faith. If someone says they have faith but they do wrong things then that's not really faith but lip service.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Salvation can also be consider a reward.

lahi na man ni na salvation imong gihisgotan as far as post #1 is concerned.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Bro, saved by what By FAITH alone? or by the WORKS: feeding, visiting, giving drink to Jesus through .."the least of his brothers"? Unya, kadtong wa mo hatag ug ilimnon, pagkaon ..etc etc .. wa man lagi ma saved: Away from me ..." ingon niya? Be, unsa may ikasulti nimo ani? Inon pa si st James: show me your faith without works .. and I will show my works that underlies my faith .. paraphrasing him here ...

mao na sya ang patay nga pagtoo master. Di jud na makaluwas. Storya ra na nila na naa silay pagtoo pero wa makita sa buhat mao wa gihapoy nada. In other words wala silay tinood nga pagtoo.