Armed Forces of the Philippines, in the international news again.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

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Calling China a communist country is a convenient excuse for not coming up with evidence. Why should I be the one to come up with the evidence that you need to support your outrageous claims. Merely saying China is communist and therefore this must be happening because in your mind you are absolutely convinced it is despite a complete and total lack of evidence to the contrary, is to me an insult to plain intelligence. Besides which, welcome to the 21st century, China is not a communist regime and it is not, contrary to what most ignorant people think, a dictatorship. There is a reasonable level of media activism there, that is why kidnapping and slavery of children by gangs connected to powerful government officials was blown wide open by the media. Blogs, internet forums, etc are also free to operate there. Seriously, study China and understand it, its shadow will loom very large in our region in due time and it is important ordinary people have a workable understanding of its political, economic and military system.

I am not calling them nor labeling them because not that they are not but because they really are . Its not an excuse either , if I cant find one , you cant find one ... its not a justification of absence of EVIDENCE . I do hope you know that otherwise I dont know what tell you anymore .

If its outrageous as how you want to call it then I can also call yours heavenly speculations . Sounds sweet to cover up something that is a sad fact because YOUTUBE cant justify it . Like I said , dont talk about military if you have no idea at all of what it is kay basin kutob lang ka sa structure and definition but the core is all up to your favorable opinion just because you are Chinese yourself .

Besides which, even if we were to say China accords with your fantasy view that is akin to some pure commie nation like Stalinist North Korea, you should know that in communist regimes the military is treated better than the civilians and so they would never allow this kind of thing to happen in the military as the military is the vanguard of the party. If you are in doubt of this, research North Korea's "military first" policy.

You have to hold your horses there mi amor . You have no idea at all what you are talking about basing on the one word I said " COMMUNIST " . If I have to repeat myself in the forums a million times , I will say it again for your convenience . Just because youve read and heard of it doesnt equate that you know it .

On what am I speculating? That technology trumps backwardness? Citing Lapu-Lapu as an example is too funny, because that happened hundreds of years ago and Magellan was caught completely off-guard. An invading force today will strike first with all the weaponry they have and will cause incredible devastation to a backward defending force. That is not speculating, that is based on recent history.

Didnt you say this ? "In war, the more dilapidated your technology and the more retarded your training the more casualties will be counted. " But you forgot how the war was won and conquered .

Ga pataka man lang ka oi ... citing the LAPU LAPU example is a perfect scenario because you stick to your TECHNOLOGY CRAP . Now you are talking and just answered your question and doubts . The enemies were caught OFFGUARD and that is part of WAR STRATEGICS right ? Even SUN TZU's Art of War book is still i use today by the top military brass , in love and relationship , even in the corporate world and that book is older than Lapu Lapu .

Oh brother, if you're going to avoid the issue of FAILURE.. that is the complete and total failure of our military to make any headway into all the wars they are engaged in, then so be it.

Like I said ... talk about FAILURE when you start also comparing APPLEs to APPLES and ORANGES to ORANGES .

That you have yet to prove. However, the former is abundantly clear.

Well it is obvious that you are an ARM GENERAL of the Chinese Military and there is no doubt about that . Let me ask you something , proving something will gain me what ?

I honestly don't know what the video is meant for, it is too retarded to be comprehended by a right thinking mind. Maybe it is meant by the AFP to engage in self-ridicule and to distract people from the many scandals affecting its top brass. I don't know. You are supposed to be an insider, why don't you ask the AFP, which admitted to the authenticity of the video (surprise, surprise) why this kind of 'training' is happening. For all we know it might be a weird psycho-sexual turn on by the field commander, maybe he masturbates to half-naked soldiers being beaten by a belt while crawling on mud. Who the hell knows. All I know is the video and its content are retarded and absolutely ridiculous.

Its your twisted mind playing games on you , not the video . Why dont you watch X GAMES , do you think its a nice act of stunt to the RIGHT THINKING MIND ? All you can do is ASSUME , SPECULATE , type a million MAYBE's because all youve got are CONFUSION and DOUBTS .

I am now an insider ? Lol nimo . Who admitted the authenticity of the video ? Maybe you are talking about HAZING is still happening in the service .

When a chinese interrogator shoves an electric baton up your behind, you will break down instantly. That is not speculation either.

I am wondering now why you are into MEN in UNIFORM and talks about SEXUALITY and SHOVING SOMETHING UP in the ASS ? By the way , if a Chinese solider do that , then it is not torture anymore . Then the POW is good for nothing .

I'm not proud of the Chinese army, but I'm a realist. These Chinese soldiers will not be POWs of the AFPs because the AFP will not dare take Chinese soldiers prisoner because they know they cannot win a war against China. And in a real war between the two countries, much as you and other believers here would deny it, China will win in one day.

Lol ... can you at least try to be in the same page with me ? if the 2 countries will be at war which is CHINA and the PHILIPPINES , POW's happens . Obviously it wont happen as what you are tring to say being a REALIST but then , if that is the case .... never pod na mahitabo na ang PINOY mahimong POW sa mga CHinese . Gets na nimo ? So why in the world you keep on yacking about CHINA here and CHINA there ? Unsay labot ?

@BOGSCHESS ...

The AFP has already made a statement to the effect that the said training exercise was wrong and the practice has long been stopped.

Of course and everyone regardless of what sector you are because HAZING is punishbale by law now mandated by the Republic Act .

But one junior commander went on TV to explain that the soldiers shown in the video was only acting....LMAOL. he just shoot himself in the foot!
Did the dude commander really thought that anybody would believe him?

what a very lame excuse....well, that's my AFP, what do you expect?

By saying JUNIOR COMMANDER , you already lost your credibility here . At least you can post links YOUTUBE VIDEOS also na he said that ga acting lang to ang naa sa video . The personalities and date of video cant even be verified .

[bogschess]

But one junior commander went on TV to explain that the soldiers shown in the video was only acting....LMAOL. he just shoot himself in the foot!
Did the dude commander really thought that anybody would believe him?

what a very lame excuse....well, that's my AFP, what do you expect?
By saying JUNIOR COMMANDER , you already lost your credibility here . At least you can post links YOUTUBE VIDEOS also na he said that ga acting lang to ang naa sa video . The personalities and date of video cant even be verified .

Just by saying junior commander I lost my credibility? Just like that?
and why you keep yacking about youtube? what is so special about it?
yes, i used a youtube link in this thread only after the AFP command admitted that the trainers involved are actually AFP personnel.

Personalities and date? both has been verified but sorry not by your official link, youtube. I am not doing any link for you for this piece of info. it is all in the prime time news, to give you a hint.

i am here for a healthy exchange of views and discussions, and opinions about the AFP, which seems to have institutionalized corruption along with torture and physical abuse in the organization.
I am not here for childish rants and your lapulapu analogy (which is hilarious, by the way).
And take this as my last reply to this thread as I find that the discussions here has no relevance to what I have in my mind when I started the thread.

[nins2k]

kuyaw jud ang training nila nho? pro im sure wla panang nkita ninyo sa youtube. training sa army/AFP kay di bya basta2x.

ka remember nuon ko atong movie nga UNTHINKABLE.

and tinuon pud tong comment sa silong... dili lang ang rebelde makadakop. what if taga ubang nasud na. Dili lang kana ang torture. Kita mang cguro ka sa SALT. giunsa xa?

tong gitanggalan ug kuku... electrify ang many more.

a soldier should endure and even die and NOT betray his country.

And by the way...


NOT for the WEAK of hearts.

[RMK711]

I am not calling them nor labeling them because not that they are not but because they really are .

What exactly do you mean by COMMUNISM? Is it some kind of otherworldly definition that doesn't accord with the real world?

Its not an excuse either , if I cant find one , you cant find one ... its not a justification of absence of EVIDENCE . I do hope you know that otherwise I dont know what tell you anymore .

Ridiculous. The one who makes the accusation is burdened with the responsibility for proving it. If you accuse someone of murder, and I claim that the person isn't a murderer, I am not the one who should find the evidence that he really is. Do you understand this or not? We are not opposite sides of the same coin. You are burdened with the responsibility for backing up your claim. Merely saying you are convinced it must be happening in the Chinese military because you seem to think you are a master of military genius of some sort, is insufficient proof of anything. If you can't come up with the evidence, don't ask me to find it for you.

If its outrageous as how you want to call it then I can also call yours heavenly speculations . Sounds sweet to cover up something that is a sad fact because YOUTUBE cant justify it . Like I said , dont talk about military if you have no idea at all of what it is kay basin kutob lang ka sa structure and definition but the core is all up to your favorable opinion just because you are Chinese yourself .

Don't bring my ethnicity into this. What is heavenly speculation? That absence of evidence permits the presumption of regularity? I think the more outrageous thing is to assume something is happening in the complete absence of any iota of evidence to prove that it really is. Your presumption is based purely on assumptions, mine is based on the fact that there is no evidence at all whatsoever. As they say in law, if there is no evidence, it didn't happen.

Didnt you say this ? "In war, the more dilapidated your technology and the more retarded your training the more casualties will be counted. " But you forgot how the war was won and conquered .

You are talking about WAS, let's talk about IS. Or do you think fighting with stone aged weapons will get you anywhere? You want people to believe you are some kind of military genius compared to the peons posting here, but basic common sense facts seem to escape you. We are in the modern world, this is not the Spanish vs Philippines era.

Ga pataka man lang ka oi ... citing the LAPU LAPU example is a perfect scenario because you stick to your TECHNOLOGY CRAP . Now you are talking and just answered your question and doubts . The enemies were caught OFFGUARD and that is part of WAR STRATEGICS right ? Even SUN TZU's Art of War book is still i use today by the top military brass , in love and relationship , even in the corporate world and that book is older than Lapu Lapu .

Am I the only one dazzled by this archaic thinking? Why is it a perfect example? Magellan was not coming to Cebu to attack the natives, he was here on a mission of peaceful colonization. He didn't bring a sizable army with him, he had assumed he could parlay with the locals like Spain did with so many different colonies. If a country were to come to the Philippines to invade us, it would be a completely different scenario. And you were the one whining about comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Good job not following your own advice!

Like I said ... talk about FAILURE when you start also comparing APPLEs to APPLES and ORANGES to ORANGES .

A failure is a failure. This is nothing but a vain attempt to manufacture excuses for absolute failure. If you can't cite a single victorious war mounted by our military, just keep your peace.

Well it is obvious that you are an ARM GENERAL of the Chinese Military and there is no doubt about that . Let me ask you something , proving something will gain me what ?

Pot calling kettle black. hohoho.. Proving something will do something very obvious, if you cared to think about it. It will prove that you yourself aren't an armchair general.

Its your twisted mind playing games on you , not the video . Why dont you watch X GAMES , do you think its a nice act of stunt to the RIGHT THINKING MIND ? All you can do is ASSUME , SPECULATE , type a million MAYBE's because all youve got are CONFUSION and DOUBTS .

Good grief. The people who take offense at defenseless soldiers being whipped with belts like animals in your world are the ones with a twisted mind. The kind of bestial behavior shown in this video is classified as a mental disorder, I'm sure I can refer you to a psychologist if you care to debate this point.

I am now an insider ? Lol nimo . Who admitted the authenticity of the video ? Maybe you are talking about HAZING is still happening in the service .

Well you seem to think you know more than other people here about the inner workings about our military and why they do the retarded things they do.

By the way:

"The spokesman of the Army’s 9th Infantry Division acknowledged the authenticity of a video showing military recruits being tortured during a military training but insisted the practice was ended in 2009."

Source: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakin...-2009spokesman

I am wondering now why you are into MEN in UNIFORM and talks about SEXUALITY and SHOVING SOMETHING UP in the ASS ? By the way , if a Chinese solider do that , then it is not torture anymore . Then the POW is good for nothing .

Lol, because the Chinese military is the one going to be doing the torturing, not me personally and I am merely stating facts based on the evidence of what they did when they invaded Tibet. And our army commanders in the video are the ones beating their soldiers, not me. So I find it utterly hilarious that you think I'm the one who is somehow "into" this. If anything, it is the commanders and their defenders who have some weird turn on out of this. I think it's pretty clear that I and some of the other posters here are disgusted by what's happening in the video. How you conclude otherwise is simply much too funny....

Lol ... can you at least try to be in the same page with me ? if the 2 countries will be at war which is CHINA and the PHILIPPINES , POW's happens . Obviously it wont happen as what you are tring to say being a REALIST but then , if that is the case .... never pod na mahitabo na ang PINOY mahimong POW sa mga CHinese . Gets na nimo ? So why in the world you keep on yacking about CHINA here and CHINA there ? Unsay labot ?

Obviously? If you really cannot envision this scenario unfolding, good luck to you. Nobody thought the Japanese would mount an invasion of multiiple Asian countries either, but it happened. It is a simple act of mathematics, if a country's defenses are weak it makes invasion more likely and more attractive. That is why we need a professional military that does not act like a crazy, retarded child with useless training that does not produce results.

For all this wonderful training that you seem to think our army is receiving you sure are doing a very good job of listing their achievements here. All I've seen is your blase claims that our snipers are top notch and our navy seals are on par with the Americans. Are those what you call results? As far as I'm concerned, results means WINNING.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Just by saying junior commander I lost my credibility? Just like that?

Yeah just like that . Because if you cant identify people , how much more in establishing facts . Whats a damn JUNIOR COMMANDER by the way ?

and why you keep yacking about youtube? what is so special about it?
yes, i used a youtube link in this thread only after the AFP command admitted that the trainers involved are actually AFP personnel.

Only after ? You should have posted the link about the AFP command who admitted . Dili ang hazing video na ang ga upload kay komonista pa jud .

Personalities and date? both has been verified but sorry not by your official link, youtube. I am not doing any link for you for this piece of info. it is all in the prime time news, to give you a hint.

Actually .. I am not a big fan of YOUTUBE and it shows because I dont sourced out my credibility there . Sa TV PATROL nimo nakita bai ? Please .... another clue pa beh .

i am here for a healthy exchange of views and discussions, and opinions about the AFP, which seems to have institutionalized corruption along with torture and physical abuse in the organization.
I am not here for childish rants and your lapulapu analogy (which is hilarious, by the way).
And take this as my last reply to this thread as I find that the discussions here has no relevance to what I have in my mind when I started the thread.

Definitely indeed ! PURE IGNORANCE lang that is why I reacted because I dont like IGNORAMUS people . Its a simple as that . You cant even distinguish specific individuals thats why you love to GENERALIZED .

of course it is hilarious for you because imohang mistah baya si RMK lmfao ninyo oi ! if siya ang ARM CHAIR GENERAL , ikaw ang ARM CHAIR ADMIRAL ?

Anyway ... what was your intention unta diay gyud ? That AFP here and AFP there ? or the bigger piture na HAZINg here and HAZING there ? Open you eyes soldier and be a man among boys .

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

What exactly do you mean by COMMUNISM? Is it some kind of otherworldly definition that doesn't accord with the real world?

Before I answer you , why such reaction about COMMUNISM ?

Ridiculous. The one who makes the accusation is burdened with the responsibility for proving it. If you accuse someone of murder, and I claim that the person isn't a murderer, I am not the one who should find the evidence that he really is. Do you understand this or not? We are not opposite sides of the same coin. You are burdened with the responsibility for backing up your claim. Merely saying you are convinced it must be happening in the Chinese military because you seem to think you are a master of military genius of some sort, is insufficient proof of anything. If you can't come up with the evidence, don't ask me to find it for you.

Because I cant provide a YOUTUBE VIDEO for you RMK ... its as simple as that . That is the whole point about it . Maybe an EB or something and I will bring back Chinese friends who served in the military before ? You know , something like that ? Not the one you can post in forums because who would believed you anyways .

Don't bring my ethnicity into this. What is heavenly speculation? That absence of evidence permits the presumption of regularity? I think the more outrageous thing is to assume something is happening in the complete absence of any iota of evidence to prove that it really is. Your presumption is based purely on assumptions, mine is based on the fact that there is no evidence at all whatsoever. As they say in law, if there is no evidence, it didn't happen.

Nothing is wrong about your ethnicity as long as I am not being racial to you . I agree with that , but we are putting and patching things here in the notion of , if its not in YOUTUBE , it never HAPPENED . That is all yours , not mine .

What is HEAVENLY SPECULATION ? Actually , an adjective I love to play with . SUGAR COATING dodong in short . Sugar coating an unsure claim .

You are talking about WAS, let's talk about IS. Or do you think fighting with stone aged weapons will get you anywhere? You want people to believe you are some kind of military genius compared to the peons posting here, but basic common sense facts seem to escape you. We are in the modern world, this is not the Spanish vs Philippines era.

Lol .... where did your STATE of the ART WEAPONRY came from ? We are talking here about WINNING WARS and its not all about TECHNOLOGY . Are you catching up or not ?

Am I the only one dazzled by this archaic thinking? Why is it a perfect example? Magellan was not coming to Cebu to attack the natives, he was here on a mission of peaceful colonization. He didn't bring a sizable army with him, he had assumed he could parlay with the locals like Spain did with so many different colonies. If a country were to come to the Philippines to invade us, it would be a completely different scenario. And you were the one whining about comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Good job not following your own advice!

There is a saying that goes like this " YOU CANT HAVE PEACE WITH A CLENCHED FIST " . If you are in the same page and wala ka na stuck sa apples and oranges lang gihapon . The advanced technology belongs to Magellan in the form of cannons and bladed metals against the lowly kris , spears and bow and arrows . Was MAGELLAn triumphant at all ?

A failure is a failure. This is nothing but a vain attempt to manufacture excuses for absolute failure. If you can't cite a single victorious war mounted by our military, just keep your peace.

A vain attempt ? Wala na lang jud ka bilib sa AFP ? How can be a victorious war b cited when there is none to be laid at all here ?

Internally , kadaghang gipang destabilized na NPA and ASG sa AFP . That is not a victory for you ?

Pot calling kettle black. hohoho.. Proving something will do something very obvious, if you cared to think about it. It will prove that you yourself aren't an armchair general.

I was never one . Its you who acted like one based from your statements and replies . In real life yes , in the forums ? No and never will be .

Good grief. The people who take offense at defenseless soldiers being whipped with belts like animals in your world are the ones with a twisted mind. The kind of bestial behavior shown in this video is classified as a mental disorder, I'm sure I can refer you to a psychologist if you care to debate this point.

There is no need . katilaw na ka ug bunal sa ginikanan nimo ? How about any capital punishment from your educators ? maski isa lang kay imposible man sad ug mo ingon ka ZERO , BETLOG , NADA , WALA , NEVER .

Well you seem to think you know more than other people here about the inner workings about our military and why they do the retarded things they do.

The word SEEM is a given so good job on holding your horses . But the RETARDED things they do ? If you think RETARDED ang HAZING , then you dont really know MILITARY . There is more than meets the eye .

By the way:

"The spokesman of the Army’s 9th Infantry Division acknowledged the authenticity of a video showing military recruits being tortured during a military training but insisted the practice was ended in 2009."

Source: Torture in military training stopped in 2009—spokesman - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

Was he referring to the VIDEO uploaded by the leftist ? I am just wondering , all I need is a YES or NO from you .

Lol, because the Chinese military is the one going to be doing the torturing, not me personally and I am merely stating facts based on the evidence of what they did when they invaded Tibet. And our army commanders in the video are the ones beating their soldiers, not me. So I find it utterly hilarious that you think I'm the one who is somehow "into" this. If anything, it is the commanders and their defenders who have some weird turn on out of this. I think it's pretty clear that I and some of the other posters here are disgusted by what's happening in the video. How you conclude otherwise is simply much too funny....

I am not happy either of HAZING , its a DISGRACE but the way you talk here is like you sounded like you know AFP based on the YOUTUBE VIDEO . Now we are in the same page somehow because its the CHinese torturing the TIbetans , now that is realistic because they invaded Tibet . Earlier you were so inclined about Filipino soldiers being tortured by the Chinese . Not in this lifetime homie . Mga intsik pa jud ang mo buhat ana ? Tsk tsk tsk .

Obviously? If you really cannot envision this scenario unfolding, good luck to you. Nobody thought the Japanese would mount an invasion of multiiple Asian countries either, but it happened. It is a simple act of mathematics, if a country's defenses are weak it makes invasion more likely and more attractive. That is why we need a professional military that does not act like a crazy, retarded child with useless training that does not produce results.

Wrong analogy ka . Find out more and indulge yourself on the bigger picture , not by a mere 8 minute YOUTUBE VIDEO . Anyhoo , did JAPAN do it by themselves ? Solely by them ? That is realistic if hey were aided and assisted .

For all this wonderful training that you seem to think our army is receiving you sure are doing a very good job of listing their achievements here. All I've seen is your blase claims that our snipers are top notch and our navy seals are on par with the Americans. Are those what you call results? As far as I'm concerned, results means WINNING.

And that exactly is the answer of your question . Did the JAPANESE also WIN ? Those figures i gave you are just mere icing of the cakes . Dont confine yourself in just looking at YOUTUBE VIDEOS . Mao ra na akong hangyo nimo 'sik .

[emailroy2002]

I want to see them shoot a sniper rifle after training...


And let them say this is how we train in the R.o.P!!!

[sevmik]

Whew, this is getting hot. I have always been a pacifist, thus I try to experience both sides (as much as I possibly could) before forming my conclusions. This is a public forum, so I will not delve into specifics. But I've been trained in intelligence (not self-taught, by-the-book crap), and the best lesson I learned is that it pays not to give in to our ingrained biases regarding those that we frown upon. Know your enemy, know yourself. The best local intel officers I know would never presume that their enemies are wrong. They would rather focus on knowing their enemy both intellectually and emotionally if they want to defeat them. That's one of the theories behind Bantay Laya that I admire. The insurgency problem could never be solved by brute force. Heck nearly 40 years of war have taught us that. It's about time we answer the question why, after all these years, do we still have an insurgency problem. Oplan Bantay Laya answered that. The problem is, it relies on genuine government transparency and military sincerity, which I think made the plan fail.

Ingon ana sad natabo dri karon sa kani nga discussion. Endless man ni siya nga debate. The Philippine military has its strong points and shining moments. The problem is, na overshadow siya sa stupid actions of a few servicemen, which is what this thread is all about. We can't blame communism or whatever ideology kay ang system itself is at fault. Would there be persuasive dissenters if there's no serious problem sa society?

[okimura]

purely training exercise....imagine if they caught behind enemy lines and tortured what are these military individuals gonna do? suck their thumb? their instructors,higher ranking officials made them do this to feel what its like being a captive...nor just what feel a small part of it for them to be strong and sharp spirit!

[borndiepoor]

it is not only getting hot but personal attack and name caling are also applied in this thread.
I wonder if name calling is used by the military as means of destroying the enemy. lol
Maybe they have this subject: The art of torture and name calling.