Why did God create evil?

[tolstoi]

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Gareb wrote: Just this, if indeed all of this is based ON the postulation that god loves humanity, then he would never allow us to suffer, or create the very conditions for suffering and or allow even the remotest possibility of that happening.

GAREB

Do you believe that *God also suffers with us in our sufferings*..Remember that HE send His Son Jesus Christ in order to redeem us from our sins and the way HE redeems us was not a walk in the park..it was not an easy task at all to be heavily scourge, carry a cross for a mile and eventually nailed into it..and for what cause?..tis because of HIS unconditional love to humanities!...well anywayz i think u as an atheist doesnt believe on this one..but if u want the whole details of what im talking about then try to get a copy of the movie *The Passion*..its worth the try man...and if u want to, maybe u can laugh out all your guts after seeing the movie...

[gareb]

you mean you have the will/power to perish all religion? Telling people that god answered you?

you first had the 'what if' idea of god answering that he indeed is the originator of evil. :mrgreen:

but what i am trying to say is that, religion, aside from it's primary function to explain origins and other natural phenomena, has two other fuctions, namely, as a social cohesion factor, and a basis for moral standards of what behavior is allowed (beneficial, therefore good) and what is not (detrimental, therefore evil). a precondition for this is a figure of authority that should be, idealistically speaking, pure good, which of course, is god.

if indeed, it is revealed that god is the originator of the very evil (or the concept of evil) that we want to get rid of, then religion, as we know it, crumbles since the very foundations of an 'all good' god is disproved.

jeanne_ml:
1. i meant this in a universal sense. please refer to my post regarding freewill and it's non-necessity and incoherence with an omniscient god.

2.ditto :mrgreen:

3. it's simple. god is the originator of all things. god made lucifer. god granted lucifer freewill (just as what he apparently gave to humanity). god had a nice plan for lucifer. lucifer "chose" the other path. lucifer fell.

could lucifer came up with the concept of evil by his own? no, since he is a creation of god, then god knew about evil beforehand, and passed it down to lucifer. god gave lucifer 'freewill' that enabled the possibility to chose evil, instead of withholding it and placing his whole creation in a state of bliss... quite the sadist, don't you think?

4. if indeed the personal relationship of god determines our concept of what god is subjectively, then that is an apparent rejection of the objective existence of the concept of god.

you have an idea of what is 'red'. another person may have one too. but when you compare the color 'red' that you picked up from a monochromatic scale, tendency is, you will not pick the same 'red'. so too will everyone else. so the term 'red' then can be anything from reddish pink, maroon, red orange, purplish red... and so on, and so forth. one could even pick up a 'blue' and label that as 'red' solely because he think it is 'red'... and we can do nothing about that because we favor subjective definitions.

not agreeing on a single definition of a concept is like 2 people seemingly talking of one lady but each actually is describing 2 different people. comedic really.

[gareb]

Do you believe that *God also suffers with us in our sufferings*.. Remember that HE send His Son Jesus Christ in order to redeem us from our sins

depends really on what religious group you belong. judeo-christian tradition, and those who follow it would agree with you. but even some of those who are by definition theists *may not* agree with you.

technically, of course not. you seem to forget that i do not believe in the existence of a god.

still in a logical sense, 'suffering with humanity' should be unecessary, provided that god knows what is in the future, can do anything and is all good. an embodiment of pure good will not allow evil to exist, and will do anything in its power not to make the very conditions to faciliate the existence of evil. and since he knows beforehand what will happen, he should have prevented this.

tis because of HIS unconditional love to humanities!...

and no, this is not about unconditional love. if it indeed is unconditional love, then unconditional love facilitates evil.

yet, by definition, god is supposed to be all good. so he should not have expressed this 'unconditional love' that facilitated the occurence of evil, since a 'good god' does not do evil to his people, or faciliate the existence of evil.

so it is either that god is not good after all, or that he does not have power over evil, or that he does not know the future. so logically the idea that there exists a being that is omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, is false.

get a copy of the movie *The Passion*..

seen it. twice. i am sorry but i was not moved into submission. i was moved into pity. the whole movie is full of ad misericordiams (appeal to pity). im sorry but the movie do not have the universal appeal as christians would like to believe. it was made for believers.

a buddhist friend went along with me to watch the movie and he remarked... "is that how violent christianity's basic doctrine is suppose to be? how could you glorify in blood and gore?" i told him i was not a christian. "oh, i forgot" we went to a nearby restaurant and he ate his salad, while i ate my burger. :mrgreen:

[giver_bert]

Then your contention my friend are:

:arrow: in effec, that if an all-powerful God did not eliminate evil, the He was a devil, or doesn't have the power to control it.. a question of His being omnipotent...

:arrow: And that the removal of all evil would permit a better, more loving world. Asserting that He would have desired and created such a world because it is clearly superior to the one we have.

:arrow: Any God that did not follow this logic was not a God of love and of omnipotence, but an evil tryrant, so to speak..


As we have seen, this logic crumbles under its own weight.... the existence of evil is the "side effect" of creating a world with love.. But as we have seen, there are compelling arguments that a world possessing both evil and love is superior to a world where neither is possible... for God to eliminate evil, He would have to eliminate our capacity of choice and thus our capacity to do both evil and good... and such a world is inferior to the one we have: one where love is possible, despite its inherent evil.

what kind of God would do this? Only one kind. A God of love.

[size=18px]Why does a God allow evil [/size] Because He is a God of LOVE.

*MY FINAL SAY*

[Creed-X]

My Conclusion: God created evil. He needs evil to create [size=18px]FAITH.[/size]

[Plukaking]

interesting thread...

i couldn't agree with you more, GAREB.

yep, the bible (the supposed inerrant word of god) said, god created evil...yeah, yeah, yeah...whichever version/interpretation the "believers" want to believe...that is why it's called a BELIEF in the first place...

no one can prove nor disprove there is a god...so i don't know how in the world these self-righteous posters are claiming they know what god wants/thinks...

religion is MAN-MADE...living creatures doing good? animals are living creatures...are they busy praying to a god?

evolution is a theory, yes...but a more realistic/logical theory than adam and eve...

[Plukaking]

OT: but can't help to post this...evolution anyone? nah? then maybe Genesis needs an update/revision...

The Book of Genesis -- Revised
Chapters 1 & 2

Chapter 1

1. In the beginning God created Dates.

2. And the date was Monday, July 4, 4004 BC.

3. And God said, let there be light; and there was light. And when there was Light, God saw the Date, that it was Monday, and he got down to work; for verily, he had a Big Job to do.

4. And God made pottery shards and Silurian mollusks and pre-Cambrian limestone strata; and flints and Jurassic Mastodon tusks and Picanthopus erectus skulls and Cretaceous placentals made he; and those cave paintings at Lasceaux. And that was that, for the first Work Day.

5. And God saw that he had made many wondrous things, but that he had not wherein to put it all. And God said, Let the heavens be divided from the earth; and let us bury all of these Things which we have made in the earth; but not too deep.

6. And God buried all the Things which he had made, and that was that.

7. And the morning and the evening and the overtime were Tuesday.

8. And God said, Let there be water; and let the dry land appear; and that was that.

9. And God called the dry land Real Estate; and the water called he the Sea. And in the land and beneath it put he crude oil, grades one through six; and natural gas put he thereunder, and prehistoric carboniferous forests yielding anthracite and other ligneous matter; and all these called he Resources; and he made them Abundant.

10. And likewise all that was in the sea, even unto two hundred miles from the dry land, called he resources; all that was therein, like manganese nodules, for instance.

11. And the morning unto the evening had been a long day; which he called Wednesday.

12. And God said, Let the earth bring forth abundantly every moving creature I can think of, with or without backbones, with or without wings or feet, or fins or claws, vestigial limbs and all, right now; and let each one be of a separate species. For lo, I can make whatsoever I like, whensoever I like.

13. And the earth brought forth abundantly all creatures, great and small, with and without backbones, with and without wings and feet and fins and claws, vestigial limbs and all, from bugs to brontosauruses.

14. But God blessed them all, saying, Be fruitful and multiply and Evolve Not.

15. And God looked upon the species he hath made, and saw that the earth was exceedingly crowded, and he said unto them, Let each species compete for what it needed; for Healthy Competition is My Law. And the species competeth amongst themselves, the cattle and the creeping things; and some madeth it and some didn't; and the dogs ate the dinosaurs and God was pleased.

16. And God took the bones from the dinosaurs, and caused them to appear mightily old; and cast he them about the land and the sea. And he took every tiny creature that had not madeth it, and caused them to become fossils; and cast he them about likewise.

17. And just to put matters beyond the valley of the shadow of a doubt, God created carbon dating. And this is the origin of species.

18. And in the Evening of the day which was Thursday, God saw that he had put in another good day's work.

19. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, which is tall and well-formed and pale of hue; and let us also make monkeys, which resembleth us not in any wise, but are short and ill-formed and hairy. And God added, Let man have dominion over the monkeys and the fowl of the air and every species, endangered or otherwise.

20. So God created Man in His own image; tall and well-formed and pale of hue created He him, and nothing at all like the monkeys.

21. And God said, Behold I have given you every herb-bearing seed, which is upon the face of the earth. But ye shall smoketh it not, lest it giveth you ideas.

22. And to every beast of the earth and every fowl of the air I have given also every green herb, and to them it shall be for meat. But they shall be for you. And the Lord God your Host suggesteth that the flesh of cattle goeth well with that of the fin and the claw; thus shall Surf be wedded unto Turf.

23. And God saw everything he had made, and he saw that it was very good; and God said, It just goes to show Me what the private sector can accomplish. With a lot of fool regulations this could have taken billions of years.

24. And the evening of the fifth day, which had been the roughest day yet, God said, Thank me it's Friday. And God made the weekend.

Chapter 2

1. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all in five days, and all less than six thousand years ago; and if thou believest it not, in a sling shalt thou find thy hindermost quarters

2. Likewise God took the dust of the ground, and the slime of the Sea and the scum of the earth and formed Man therefrom; and breathed the breath of life right in his face. And he became Free to Choose.

3. And God made a Marketplace eastward of Eden, in which the man was free to play. And this was the Free Play of the Marketplace.

4. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow four trees: the Tree of Life, and the Liberty Tree, and the Pursuit of Happiness Tree, and the Tree of the Knowledge of ***.

5. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, This is my Law, which is called the Law of Supply and Demand. Investeth thou in the trees of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and thou shalt make for thyself a fortune. For what fruit thou eatest not, that thou mayest sell, and with the seeds thereof expand thy operations.

6. But the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of ***, thou mayest not eat; nor mayest thou invest therein, nor profit thereby nor expand its operations; for that is a mighty waste of seed.

7. And the man was exceeding glad. But he asked the LORD God: Who then shall labor in this Marketplace? For I am not management, being tall and well-formed and pale of hue?

8. And the LORD God said unto himself, Verily, this kid hath the potential which is Executive.

9. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to labor for him. And they labored for peanuts.

10. Then Adam was again exceeding glad. But he spake once more unto the LORD God, saying, Lo, I am free to play in the Marketplace of the LORD, and have cheap labor in plenty; but to whom shall I sell my surplus fruit and realize a fortune thereby?

11. And the LORD God said unto himself, Verily, this is a Live One.

12. And he caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he took from him one of his ribs, which was a spare rib.

13. And the spare rib which the LORD God had taken from the man, made he woman. And he brought her unto the man, saying:

14. This is Woman and she shall purchase your fruit; and ye shall realize a fortune thereby. For Man produceth and Woman consumeth, wherefore she shall be called the consumer.

15. And they were both decently clad, the Man and the Woman, from the neck even unto the ankles, so they were not ashamed.


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Presented at the January, 1997 Sunday Service of The North Texas Church of Freethought
From the Ballantine Book, "Not The Bible" by Tony Hendra {January, 1983 -- ISBN 034-5302-494} {Currently Out of Print}

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[ZuperTzai]

hala? di ba God didnt create evil?
The first evil being chose to become evil & way nagsugo niya oi toinkzzzzzzzz hek hek hek

[Plukaking]

can somebody please tell me what is considered EVIL?

[Plukaking]

hala? di ba God didnt create evil?
The first evil being chose to become evil & way nagsugo niya oi toinkzzzzzzzz hek hek hek

o, abi nako ang ginoo maoy naghimo sa tanan...karon di na sad diay...syalan ba...pagka way klaro...