How to kill the idea of the Zodiac and Horoscope

[rodsky]

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Ok binisay-on nako ni kay para makasabot ang tanan (hopefully). I prove nako ninyo nga astrology and horoscopes and the Zodiac is all nonsense and irrational, and believing in it means you are a gullible and illogical person.

Naa'y duha ka mag igsoon nga kaluha (twins). Sa gabi-i nga sila natawo (dungan of course, diba? Kay twins man), ang Jupiter ug Mars nga planeta nag abot (conjunction) sa may Zodiac sign nga Leo dapit at sunset. Let's say according to their horoscope/Zodiac, since they were born AT THE SAME TIME during that time, Leo dapat ilang "birth sign". And since according pod sa Astrology nga naay "meaning" kay naa man ang Jupiter ug Mars nag "align" dapit sa Leo, then dapat ang kapalaran (fate) sa duha ka twins kay PAREHO, for example, ma-dato ka (become rich) when you turn 30 years old if ing ani ang arrangement sa Zodiac ug planets when you are born.

Sus kay, pag age 3 kay gikidnap man nang isa ka kaluha, ug gidala sa bukid. There he lived until he was age 40 ug namatay sa sakit. Meanwhile katong iyang igsoon nga wala nakidnap, lived a normal life pero due to hard work and perseverance in the city, na-dato siya until he died when he was 84, so in effect, na tinood ang gisulti sa iyang kapalaran (fate). But...

...what about his kaluha? Remember, they were born on the SAME DAY, so SAME STARS and SAME PLANETS were in the sky at the time. So if tinuod gayud nga ang ZODIAC makapa-cause sa imong FATE BEING TIED TO THE ARRANGEMENT OF STARS, PLANETS and whatever pa diha sa langit, on the day you were BORN, eh DIBA DAPAT SAME SILA UG KAPALARAN Pero kato, namatay ug sayo ang isa ka kaluha, and the other prospered and lived to a ripe old age. *shakes head*

So unsa man na siya? Exception to the rule? Naa diay ing ana sa Zodiac, which claims that ALL FATE lies on the READING of the STARS, nya ang kaluha lagi different lagi ilang fate?

DAKONG bot-bot.

-RODION

[walker]

sa proper astrology, dunay computation. usa sa importante nga data sa computation ang birth time. maski twins, imposible gyud na sila magdungan ug gawas sa birth canal. mao nga dili gyud na sila ug parehas ug astrological chart.

kana generic nga horoscope nga kasagaran makita nato sa mga newspapers ug karon sa internet, para ra gyud na lingaw lingaw.

ang tinuod nga astrology lahi ana.

no two individuals have the same astrological charts. maski twins pa.

[rodsky]

sa proper astrology, dunay computation. usa sa importante nga data sa computation ang birth time. maski twins, imposible gyud na sila magdungan ug gawas sa birth canal.

LOL that may be true, but the point is, the same STARS, the same PLANETS are in the sky are THERE during said the birth--bisan unsa nimo pag forward ug rewind intawn, that's the way they appear in the sky, and negligible ang computation nga imong buhaton, because astronomical events/alignments of a stellar nature are measured in weeks/months rather than in milliseconds. Don't tell me naay twins nga natawo nga weeks/months apart--dili na na sila kaluha! I'm talking about twins who were born seconds apart, and the same stars, same planets, are in the sky. Dedo ang Zodiac.

And don't talk to me about calculation, because if you want to wrestle in that arena, I can prove to you that Ophiucus should have been part of the Zodiac even 2000 years ago, but no one bothered to change it... *shakes head* Sa ato pa naa na diay diha ang Ophiucus sa Zodiac (13th) and yet people have been deducing/concluding their "fate" on a 12-Zodiac system for over 2000 years...kinsa'y nailad?

YouTube - Carl Sagan on Astrology

(transcription of the video)

There are two ways to view the stars: as they really are and as we might wish them to be. These are the Pleides, a group of young stars astronomers recognize as leaving their stellar nurseries of gas and dust, and this is the Crab Nebula, a stellar graveyard where gas and dust are being dispersed back into the interstellar medium. Inside it is a dying pulsar. Both the Pleides and the Crab Nebula are in a constellation that astrologers long ago named Taurus the Bull. They imagined it to influence our daily lives.

Astronomers say that the planet Saturn is an immense globe of hydrogen and helium encircled by a ring of snowballs 50,000 km. wide, and that Jupiter's great red spot is a giant storm raging for perhaps a million years. But the astrologers see the planets as affecting human character and fate. Jupiter represents a regal bearing and a gentle disposition, and Saturn, the gravedigger, fosters, they say, mistrust, suspicion and evil. To astronomers Mars is a place as real as the Earth, a world awaiting exploration. But the astrologers see Mars as a warrior, the instigator of quarrels, violence and destruction. Astronomers and astrologers were not always so distinct. For most of human history the one encompassed the other. But there came a time when astronomy escaped from the confines of astrology. The two traditions began to diverge in the life and mind of Johannes Kepler. It was he who demystified the heavens by discovering that a physical force lay behind the motions of the planets. He was the first astrophysicist and the last scientific astrologer.

The intellectual foundations of astrology were swept away 300 years ago, and yet astrology is still taken seriously by a great many people. Have you ever noticed how easy it is to find a magazine on astrology? Virtually every newspaper in America has a daily column on astrology. Almost none of them have even a weekly column on astronomy. People wear astrological pendants, check their horoscopes before leaving the house, even our language preserves an astrological consciousness. For example, take the word "disaster." It comes from the Greek for "bad star." The Italians once believed that disease was caused by the influence of the stars. It's the origin of our word "influenza." The zodiacal signs used by the astrologers even ornament this statue of Prometheus in New York City. Prometheus who stole fire from the gods.

What is all this astrology business? Fundamentally, it's the contention that which constellations the planets are in at the moment of your birth profoundly influence your future. A few thousand years ago the idea developed that the motions of the planets determine the fates of kings, dynasties, empires. Astrologers studied the motion of the planets and asked themselves what had happened last time, let's say, that Venus was rising in the constellation of the goat? Maybe something similar would happen this time as well. It was a subtle and risky business. Astrologers became employed only by the state. In many countries, it became a capital offense for anyone but the official astrologer to read the portents in the skies. Why? Because a good way to overthrow a regime was to predict its downfall. Chinese court astrologers who made inaccurate predictions were executed. Others simply doctored the record so that afterwards they were in perfect conformity with events. Astrology developed into a strange discipline, a mixture of careful observations, mathematics and record keeping with fuzzy thinking and pious fraud.

Nevertheless, astrology survived and flourished. Why? Because it seems to lend a cosmic significance to the routine of our daily lives. It pretends to satisfy our longing to feel personally connected to the universe. Astrology suggests a dangerous fatalism. If our lives are controlled by a set of traffic signals in the sky, why try to change anything?

Look at this. Here's two different newspapers published in the same city on the same day. Let's see what they do about astrology. Suppose you were a Libra, that is born between September 23 and October 22. According to the astrologer for the New York Post, compromise will help ease tension. Well, maybe, it's sort of vague. According to the New York Daily News' astrologer, demand more of yourself. Well, also vague, but also pretty different. It's interesting that these predictions are not predictions. They tell you what to do, they don't say what's going to happen. They are consciously designed to be so vague that they could apply to anybody, and they disagree with each other.

Astrology can be tested by the lives of twins. There are many real cases like this. One twin is killed in childhood, in say a riding accident, or is struck by lightning, but the other lives to a prosperous old age. Suppose that happened to me. My twin and I would be born precisely in the same place and within minutes of each other. Exactly the same planets would be rising at our births. If astrology were valid, how could we have such profoundly different fates? It turns out that astrologers can't even agree among themselves what a given horoscope means. In careful tests, they are unable to predict the character and future of people they know nothing else about except the time and place of birth. Also, how could it possibly work? How could the rising of Mars at the moment of my birth affect me, then or now? I was born in a closed room. Light from Mars couldn't get in. The only influence of Mars which could affect me is its gravity, but the gravitational influence of the obstetrician was much larger than the gravitational influence of Mars. Mars is a lot more massive but the obstetrician was a lot closer.

-RODION

[walker]

ok prove to me then

[cywizard]

Just stop believing on this and this idea will surely die... ^_^

[xirc]

sila madam awring ra man ang mutuog horoscope .

[rodsky]

ok prove to me then

Ok the first prerequisite to understand why, is a short lesson on "proper motion" or proper stellar motion.

"Over the course of centuries, stars appear to maintain nearly fixed positions with respect to each other, so that they form the same constellations over historical time. Ursa Major, for example, looks nearly the same now as it did hundreds of years ago. However, precise long-term observations show that the constellations change shape, albeit very slowly, and that each star has an independent motion."

Now if you look at the proper motion of stars in the constellation Ophiuchus, and use a planetarium simulator that supports proper motion plus or minus 30,000 years (I have Starry Night Pro http://www.starrynight.com/ and Stellarium Stellarium, the former has proper motion support, the latter doesn't), you would see that in fact, movement of stars in Ophiuchus suggests that the ecliptic actually STILL crosses it even in 2000 B. C. Now if the argument of astrologers is that the Zodiac needs to change "now", what makes NOW so special, when during the time the Greeks were just beginning to use bronze as a metal, there were ALREADY 13-Zodiac signs that the ecliptic passes through? So why is it that, karon pa lang sila nag decide to change it? When in fact the basis of how people decide their "fate" for the past say, 500 years, via newspaper or their local astrologer, is in fact based on a 12-Zodiac sign system? So does that mean, all of the "fates" that have been "written in stone" were all incorrect, because after all, the system did in fact have 13-Zodiac signs after all, for over 1500 years? It's totally irrational and downright ridiculous.

-RODION

[stew_griff]

gamit ang zodiac para sa slumbook

[z3robeLow]

ahaha dakong bot-bot! nice one rod! (nalibat lng ko gamay sa binisaya)

horoscopes are made so that they can apply to anyone...
IMO, they aren't true, but some people run their days by them, making them true. (in a way)
what you believe is more often than not what will happen to you... if you fear something so bad, it will probably happen to you, kay you are trying too hard to avoid it... murag self-fulfilling prophecy.
naa ra jud na sa choices that we make. it isn't necessarily determined by fate. kaning fate kay murag lazy excuse ra na siya. for me, they are good to pass the time if i am bored, and maybe for a good laugh, but i don't trust my life to it.

Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. -William Jennings Bryan

[AntitaniC]

nice one.... never really believed in zodiacs signs.... lol

ahaha dakong bot-bot! nice one rod! (nalibat lng ko gamay sa binisaya)

horoscopes are made so that they can apply to anyone...
IMO, they aren't true, but some people run their days by them, making them true. (in a way)
what you believe is more often than not what will happen to you... if you fear something so bad, it will probably happen to you, kay you are trying too hard to avoid it... murag self-fulfilling prophecy.
naa ra jud na sa choices that we make. it isn't necessarily determined by fate. kaning fate kay murag lazy excuse ra na siya. for me, they are good to pass the time if i am bored, and maybe for a good laugh, but i don't trust my life to it.

Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. -William Jennings Bryan

mao... ang naa diha sa zodiac signs nga predictions... puros raman mga common scenarios in our daily lives...

like maka kita kag higugma-on karon... (kung dili d.i ka mo gawas sa balay anang adlawa? ang baba-e mo sulong? lol)

naa pud nga swertehon ka sa numero 8 ( ni taya ug daghan lotto.... ) wa ra gihapon ni da-ug...... lol