MERGED: All About RP-US Mutual Defense Treaty/ VFA-MLSA and Related Issues

[Inquisitor]

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This is an old news from PDI which has the same scenario on the discussions here :

Arroyo defends presence of nuke-powered US ship - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

Anyways ... I remember back in the days , US NUKE VESSELS are not allowed to dock or even in the presence of Philippine waters alone but can only freely navigate on international waters except for nations who has no problems with US Nuke Vessels .

Wow, the only thing that you've proven here is that we really have problems with the people in our Government. They(Conrado F. Estrella/Manuel M. Lazaro) are really incompetent.

Reason:

In the article Manuel M. Larazo said "The Philippines, consistent with the national interest, adopts and pursues a policy of freedom from nuclear weapon in its territory." or Section 8 of Article II of the constitution. The main point of the arcticle is "freedom from nuclear weapon", it even allows the government to own nuclear weapons if it is in consitent with national interest.

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[Inquisitor]

what use is a 'boomer' if you dont put nukes in it (boomer refers to nuke missle sub) peace between 2 nuclear nations is actually based on threat & the ability to launch an effective counter attack, the cold war between russia & US is an example.. & boomers are the best effective nuke weapons, cause they are stealth, could operate for months, & even their own guys wont know where they exactly are if they go underwater.. they are only detected when on the surface.. land based silos have fixed location so its easier to eliminate than moving targets, stealth bombers have limited range & the b2 bomber is a flying wing design w/c means its not fitted for turbulent weather, & most likely used only at nighttime & in less volatile airspace.. to say that the ohio sub is carrying a nuke is actually based on educated guess & good logic.. china & north korea are nuclear nations, when tension builds up between US & these countries, US places their boomers like chess pieces, so that an effective counterstrike is possible.. why?? missle from land based silos can be intercepted cause of their longer trajectory path.. the stealth bombers have limited range & need a less volatile airspace to operate.. a boomer can disappear, travel undetected, pop out a few hundred clicks from enemy shore, & fire a missle salvo by w/c interception is no longer possible..

& as i said, the nuke sub is classified weapon, even the president of the phil. wont be allowed to enter it even if he wanted to, unless of course the US military allows it..

i dont have a problem w/ the nuke sub entering our waters.. even if china decided to blast subic just to destroy a nuke sub on the surface, the destruction radius wont be big enough to reach cebu city ,but of course the incoming missle would be intercepted way ahead by aegis cruisers & interceptors in taiwan, south korea & japan

On the issue that it has nuclear weapons hidden somewhere is just mere speculation. According to them the submarine was refitted to carry tomahawk missiles and is not carrying any nukes. One cannot disprove something out of guesses, you can't bring that kind of argument in court. You need solid proof and witnesses that would prove your claim.

On the issue that it cannot be inspected even by the president. Ok sure, but that doesnt mean that if his guts (the president) tells him there maybe nukes in the submarine, that he cant kick them off our internal waters.

About the President; If he lack's political will that's not my fault, I didnt vote for him. (I voted for Gordon)

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I don't really care on the issue, I'm here for the debate.
"Somebody Stop Me" -Jim Carrey(The Mask)
Can I sing

[Pi2plank]

On the issue that it has nuclear weapons hidden somewhere is just mere speculation. According to them the submarine was refitted to carry tomahawk missiles and is not carrying any nukes. One cannot disprove something out of guesses, you can't bring that kind of argument in court. You need solid proof and witnesses that would prove your claim.

On the issue that it cannot be inspected even by the president. Ok sure, but that doesnt mean that if his guts (the president) tells him there maybe nukes in the submarine, that he cant kick them off our internal waters.

About the President; If he lack's political will that's not my fault, I didnt vote for him. (I voted for Gordon)

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I don't really care on the issue, I'm here for the debate.
"Somebody Stop Me" -Jim Carrey(The Mask)
Can I sing

i'm not trying to be a paranoid here, what i'm just telling is from a different point of view, a view that may be similar to what military intel from china, nokor, or even iranian military intel.. even if US makes a public statement that indeed a nuke sub came up in the vicinity but insists only conventional warheads were carried, do you think chinese military intel would believe that easily?? i don't think so, they might even use the line 'tell that to the marines' , of course i cant prove they carry nukes, but just like me, i bet the chinese intel also believes its not just regular TLAM's they'd be carrying..

war is kinda like a chess game, the pieces are the planes, ships, tanks, boomers.. & just like a chess game, its not about how good you know how to move your own chess pieces, but the knowlegde to predict your enemies' moves is more important.. as sun tzu said , 'all war is based on deception' & 'know yourself & know your enemy, & you will never be in peril' .. isnt it a wonder that even after thousands of years, sun tzu's teachings is still of use today.. the kind of thinking that 'ok, it was said the sub doesnt carry nukes so i believe it' has actually no room in the military intel... cause that kind of relax mindset is gonna get you killed fast.. as i said, i'm not here to promote paranoia, but i'm just voicing out my ideas from a different view, more like from a military point of view.. (btw, i'm not in the military, its just my hobby to keep w/ the current military hardware from different countries, the phil. is too poor to afford these state-of-the-art weapons, that's why i can only read about them.. & just like what i learned in elem. (that the cheapest way to travel was to read a book) ,even if i dont see these hardware personally, at least i get to see them in books & in pictures


& as for the president.. of course he can kick those yanks out of our waters.. but dont be surprised if he asks first for guidance from his parents (probably in a dream), or from kris.. he might need to consult first a lot of people before doing anything..

[longimanus]

hehehe unsay makoha ana nila

[Inquisitor]

i'm not trying to be a paranoid here, what i'm just telling is from a different point of view, a view that may be similar to what military intel from china, nokor, or even iranian military intel.. even if US makes a public statement that indeed a nuke sub came up in the vicinity but insists only conventional warheads were carried, do you think chinese military intel would believe that easily?? i don't think so, they might even use the line 'tell that to the marines' , of course i cant prove they carry nukes, but just like me, i bet the chinese intel also believes its not just regular TLAM's they'd be carrying..

war is kinda like a chess game, the pieces are the planes, ships, tanks, boomers.. & just like a chess game, its not about how good you know how to move your own chess pieces, but the knowlegde to predict your enemies' moves is more important.. as sun tzu said , 'all war is based on deception' & 'know yourself & know your enemy, & you will never be in peril' .. isnt it a wonder that even after thousands of years, sun tzu's teachings is still of use today.. the kind of thinking that 'ok, it was said the sub doesnt carry nukes so i believe it' has actually no room in the military intel... cause that kind of relax mindset is gonna get you killed fast.. as i said, i'm not here to promote paranoia, but i'm just voicing out my ideas from a different view, more like from a military point of view.. (btw, i'm not in the military, its just my hobby to keep w/ the current military hardware from different countries, the phil. is too poor to afford these state-of-the-art weapons, that's why i can only read about them.. & just like what i learned in elem. (that the cheapest way to travel was to read a book) ,even if i dont see these hardware personally, at least i get to see them in books & in pictures


& as for the president.. of course he can kick those yanks out of our waters.. but dont be surprised if he asks first for guidance from his parents (probably in a dream), or from kris.. he might need to consult first a lot of people before doing anything..

Why are we talking on the issue.

Your afraid that war might broke-out and we might get in the middle.

Boink... If a Nuclear war would broke-out, It's gonna be the end of the world..

The moderator thinks it's illegal/unconstitutional.

Another Boink... He still can't prove it.

You don't want them here in the Philippines.

If it's legal, booohoo.. You can't do anything about it.

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I'm aching to sing The Mask cartoons intro theme song...

[cebulifer]

subs are for counter attacks.

if china doesn't launch first, then they don't launch!

[Pi2plank]

Why are we talking on the issue.

Your afraid that war might broke-out and we might get in the middle.

Boink... If a Nuclear war would broke-out, It's gonna be the end of the world..

did i ever say i'm afraid war might break out & we're gonna be in the middle?? long before, i already know that russia & US has enough nukes to blow away the entire earth.. you can check my previous posts if i ever did say that i was afraid war might break out..

The moderator thinks it's illegal/unconstitutional.

Another Boink... He still can't prove it.

You don't want them here in the Philippines.

If it's legal, booohoo.. You can't do anything about it.

i dont have a problem whether its illegal/unconstitutional for the sub to be here.. i never said i dont want them here in the philippines.. you can check my previous posts..

[skullyboy]

oh my this is a regular thing especially during clark & subic's heyday.. adding to the fact that we don't have any external defense capability (think anti-submarine sonars, ships, and recon planes) no need to create a big fuss about it

[xiboy]

paeta aning ma pagan ta sa ilang duwa2x ui... mapapas man sigoro ang pilipinas....

mapapha gyud bro...mawala sa mapa...hehehe

[Inquisitor]

did i ever say i'm afraid war might break out & we're gonna be in the middle?? long before, i already know that russia & US has enough nukes to blow away the entire earth.. you can check my previous posts if i ever did say that i was afraid war might break out..

i dont have a problem whether its illegal/unconstitutional for the sub to be here.. i never said i dont want them here in the philippines.. you can check my previous posts..

oh really..

the only problem is that it might happen quite nearer than we expect.. & we might be part of the so called 'collateral damage'..

Why argue that it has nukes and shit in it if you don't have problems with it.
Boohoo.. Whatever you can't prove anything. I'm still right.