Legalize Abortion?

[AmorsoloX]

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i mean no offense ha.. why do most people here both the pro & anti RH bill talk about sin/morality/good..

why cant we think logically, using rational.. the truth is we are just being influenced by what our church leaders / political activists / parents / friends / coworkers ?

let try to look at the problem here.. at let use cold logic.. its pointless to quote statistics and supposed expert opinion, they are almost impossible to verify...

ex...
abort the baby.. you wont need to support the child...
keep the child.. you gave to support it until it becomes independent..
keep the child.. are you just going to make another criminal/prostitute/trapo politiko/other bad elements
abort the baby.. can you still make one when you want one? do have money for the medical expenses so you arent just commiting suicide



there is no such thing as good and evil.... only men claim such things... try looking at it stoicaly and pragmatically...

... 6 out of marriage is ok... as long as you are responsible for whatever happens...

giving birth to a child only to give him a life of living hell is a lot worse than abortion.. ayaw paghimo og butang nga di nimo kaya suportahan... dont waste your god's gift

im pro-life.. im anit-poverty... im pro-quality of life...

fewer children is a lot easier to support than many... if you havent been a parent.. i suggest you shut up about parenting.. its not like what is in the books..

[mannyamador]

i mean no offense ha.. why do most people here both the pro & anti RH bill talk about sin/morality/good..

Because morals are based on logic. The objective of rational discussion is to arrive at the common good.

But rational discussion that is not based on solid, scientific evidence is just pure speculation and out of touch with reality. That is why the cold, hard facts posted here are essential and can be used to refute the unfounded claims of the pro_RH fanatics.

fewer children is a lot easier to support than many.

A child is easier to support than aging parents. And which is easier: one child supporting aging parents, or several children suppoirting aging parents?

These are the more important questions because population control and contraception will lead to population ageing. The proportion of aged persons needing extra care will grow vis-a-vis the number of working-age persons unless we have enough children to replenish those who grow old. This is what the UN Population Division has been warning us about for years, but it is also what the population controllers and pro-RH fanatics try to hide!

And anyone who thinks there is no such thing as good and evil is contradicting himself by simply keeping himself alive. Such irrationality is foolish and idle speculation. Time to wake up to reality!




NO TO ABORTION. NO TO THE ABORTIFACIENT-PROMOTING RH/ABORTION BILL (HB 5043)
Please sign the petition AGAINST the Reproductive Health/Abortion Bill (HB5043)
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/

[AmorsoloX]

Because morals are based on logic. The objective of rational discussion is to arrive at the common good.

what is common good? the cost of a few justifies the benifit of many..... all actions have their costs.... there is no such thing a neutral ground.. if someone wins, someone else must lose... morals are just based on your preconcieved notions.. you may have taken them from religion, culture.. you might as well say those that dont share your beliefs as immoral.. you are being insensitive to others...

But rational discussion that is not based on solid, scientific evidence is just pure speculation and out of touch with reality. That is why the cold, hard facts posted here are essential and can be used to refute the unfounded claims of the pro_RH fanatics.

theres nothing of solid scientific evidence here... you ask the pro-rh "fanatics" then they will give you their own statistics and evidences also... the pro-rh "fanatics" also call your claims to be unfounded.. besides.. how hard is it to manufacture statistics that will favor you... a sample of a few to represent a many?... how scientific is that?...
besides.. whether the pros or the antis are more popular.. its just probably due to the media being shown.. the whole truth is not shown.. only half truths....

who would believe on religious text qoutes and unverifiable statistics, they are just full of hot air...

the voice of the people is not the voice of god... more often.. the voice of the people promotes chaos....

A child is easier to support than aging parents. And which is easier: one child supporting aging parents, or several children suppoirting aging parents?

a responsible parent wouldnt ask their children to support them, a parent who loves their children wouldnt want to become a burden to the children... so if you are a parent, the purpose of having many children is to have many people supporting you when you grow old? aint that selfish?.... its the children's duty right?.... hmmm, now you are demanding them to support you.. such selfishness... dont forget that by the time they will be supporting you, they will already be supporting children of their own...

for being such an advocate of a noble cause.. im dissapointed that you think of children selfishly.. its for your own benifit that they will support you when you grow old...

let reverse your question... which is easier, supporting one child? or two child?.... dont forget,, your "morals" requires you to support your children.... you can always dump your children in the streetm but for me... thats no better than abortion...

These are the more important questions because population control and contraception will lead to population ageing. The proportion of aged persons needing extra care will grow vis-a-vis the number of working-age persons unless we have enough children to replenish those who grow old. This is what the UN Population Division has been warning us about for years, but it is also what the population controllers and pro-RH fanatics try to hide!

no problem man ng mo daghan ang tao... theoretically, your argument is correct... ang problema kay nidaghan ang tao nga walay mahimo.. instead of being productive.. they are the ones requiring extra support... its draining resources... if a country have the capablilities to support a larger population, they should.. for economic reasons.. if it cannot support, then it shouldnt.. otherwise their would be severe economic and social effects...

And anyone who thinks there is no such thing as good and evil is contradicting himself by simply keeping himself alive. Such irrationality is foolish and idle speculation. Time to wake up to reality!

so its better to keep the satanists who worship and act as agents of the devil than those who dont believe in him.. good reasoning... hehehe... your first sentence is confusing... why would a person who doesnt believe in good and evil want to kill himself? whats the relation?

as for your second sentence.. theres no concrete evidence of the existence of god or your so-called "morality-giver" except from books that people wrote long time ago....

i wonder what your reality is,, what ever it is.. i hope your not living in illusions... as there are night and day, two sides of a coin.. there are two or more perspectives in the world.. it is best if you look through them all....

your intentions maybe noble, sadly you are born in a less than perfect world, where man must be pragmatic, where lofty ideals exists only in debate rooms..

[AmorsoloX]

That's because SOME forms of artificial contraception really are ABORTIFACIENT.

so how bout ban those abortifacient, then promote the use of other artificial contraception....

lesser unwanted pregnancies.... lesser abortions...

easy as that....

the RH-bill may have its flaws.. but its generally designed for the good of the people...

before naa mo target sa pharmaceuticals... kung wala na sila, then kinsa nlang diay himo sa mga condoms n etc...? mura ra ng maghimo defense contract to buy guns for our soldiers pero ala manufacturers to make the guns and ammo for our soldiers to use...

[gotnowheels]

Genesis 9:1
Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth."

sige kay si God man ang motabang unya nato inig wala natay kapuy-an kay daghan na kaayo tah, pasanay lang tag maayo ron, palabi sa atong gibati, naa bitaw si GOD

[AmorsoloX]

sige kay si God man ang motabang unya nato inig wala natay kapuy-an kay daghan na kaayo tah, pasanay lang tag maayo ron, palabi sa atong gibati, naa bitaw si GOD

actually.. thats where the power of the catholic church originates.. from the poor masses... it is in the best interest of the church or any religious institution to keep the masses in constant fear of the wrath of god... for if that fear is gone, only a few will go to the church for guidance... if only a few go to church, then the church will lose its political power

its like this...

when people are in dire straits (poverty).. they turn to prayer... and when they are in abundance.. they usually forget god (we all know this irony).. in poverty, people become suspicious of other people and the authorities, they will consider them as vultures benefiting on their misfortune... they then turn to god as the only refuge. and the ones who claims to know a lot about god is (as you guessed it) the church... the church will then implant their political agendas as god's own will on the hearts and minds of the poor.. besides.. who sane man would want to go against this benifactor?...

this whole anti-rh bill thing is just the catholic church of the phil warming up its political muscle...

God commanded us to go and multply and be fruitfull.. but he forgot to say the phrase that we should "be responsible in doing so"...

again, overcrowding aka overpopulation of a certain area, is not a good practice of a good steward of the earth... overcrowding increases pollution and energy consumption. plus it has negative social and economic impacts..... it does more harm than good to what we are trying to be a good steward of... the earth...

[mannyamador]

a responsible parent wouldnt ask their children to support them, a parent who loves their children wouldnt want to become a burden to the children.

You seem to forget that government services and benefits for ghe aged are supported by the taxes of the younger working classes. Parents don't even have to directly ask for support from their children. That's simple demographics and economics at work.

And that is why population control is stupid. It leads to population ageing, which means a growing aged proportion of the population to be supported by a shrinking proportion of persons in working age. Without a growing population, population ageing is inevitable -- and economically unsustainable!

no problem man ng mo daghan ang tao... theoretically, your argument is correct... ang problema kay nidaghan ang tao nga walay mahimo.. instead of being productive.. they are the ones requiring extra support

You also seem to have forgotten that the causes of low productivity are MASSIVE CORRUPTION, BAD GOVERNANCE, GREED, AND ECONOMIC MISMANAGEMENT, Population control will NOT address any of these at all.

You claim to be realistic, but you are totally out of touch with reality. Get real. Your population control myth and dangerous RH/Abortion Bill won't solve anything. They will just make things worse! You aren't being a good steward of anything with such counterproductive measures. And they will eventually lead to more aboprtions too. Nothing good about that.



More info on abstinence and purity at
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Please sign the petition AGAINST the Reproductive Health/Abortion Bill (HB5043)
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[mannyamador]

Here's more evidence (very recent too) that abstinence-only education is more effective than the contraceptive-based "comprehensive" s3x education the pro-RH fanatics love so much.


Efficacy of a Theory-Based Abstinence-Only Intervention Over 24 Months
A Randomized Controlled Trial With Young Adolescents
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2010;164(2):152-159.
http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...ract/164/2/152

Results: The participants' mean age was 12.2 years; 53.5% were girls; and 84.4% were still enrolled at 24 months. Abstinence-only intervention reduced sexual initiation (risk ratio [RR], 0.67; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.48-0.96). The model-estimated probability of ever having sexual intercourse by the 24-month follow-up was 33.5% in the abstinence-only intervention and 48.5% in the control group. Fewer abstinence-only intervention participants (20.6%) than control participants (29.0%) reported having coitus in the previous 3 months during the follow-up period (RR, 0.94; 95% CI, 0.90-0.99). Abstinence-only intervention did not affect condom use. The 8-hour (RR, 0.96; 95% CI, 0.92-1.00) and 12-hour comprehensive (RR, 0.95; 95% CI, 0.91-0.99) interventions reduced reports of having multiple partners compared with the control group. No other differences between interventions and controls were significant.

Conclusion: Theory-based abstinence-only interventions may have an important role in preventing adolescent sexual involvement.

More info on abstinence and purity at
True Love Waits Philippines

“Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter.” Proverbs 24:11
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute." Proverbs 31:8
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/

[AmorsoloX]

You seem to forget that government services and benefits for ghe aged are supported by the taxes of the younger working classes. Parents don't even have to directly ask for support from their children. That's simple demographics and economics at work.

tsk tsk tsk.. such selfish motivations.. people are really selfish...

And that is why population control is stupid. It leads to population ageing, which means a growing aged proportion of the population to be supported by a shrinking proportion of persons in working age. Without a growing population, population ageing is inevitable -- and economically unsustainable!

again.. selfish motivations... magsalig jud diay mga parents sa ila children.. tsk tsk tsk.. no wonder daghan children magthink pa bigat ra ila parents...

though you have a point in populution ageing as unsustainable.. maybe overpopulation can provide us with cheap labor.. we might as well export prostitutes... we might also make human organ farms... besides.. there will be lots of people willing to sell their bodies to earn some cash....

lack of discipline in population management is stupid...

You also seem to have forgotten that the causes of low productivity are MASSIVE CORRUPTION, BAD GOVERNANCE, GREED, AND ECONOMIC MISMANAGEMENT, Population control will NOT address any of these at all.

all these are products of the ignorance and greed of the population.. the government only reflects the masses... a corrupted populace would always produce corrupted leaders... the people follow their feelings.. not their logic...


"You claim to be realistic, but you are totally out of touch with reality. Get real. Your population control myth and dangerous RH/Abortion Bill won't solve anything. They will just make things worse! You aren't being a good steward of anything with such counterproductive measures. And they will eventually lead to more aboprtions too. Nothing good about that."

atleast im not some agency's or church's lapdog... which happens to be some politician's political whores.... daghan ra jud kaau mga tig-apil2x sa way labot....

im not pro or against abortion.. whatever you say.. abortions will happen whether you like it or not... para lang nako.. if they should do it.. they should do it safely...

oh.. and by the way.. ive watched the news lately.. the media said that the rise in hiv/cases is due to the church's obsolete teachings bout sexuality... well.. di ko matingala.. sa wa katilaw jer2x, why should we expect them to preach us against it.. di man na sila kabalo.... and moreover.. why should we listen to somebody who has no family of his own teaching us about parenting...

kung wa ka katilaw jer2x... please dont start on the subject... lets reserve it for another thread...

[mannyamador]

tsk tsk tsk.. such selfish motivations.. people are really selfish...

Nah, the truly selfish ones the pro-RH fanatics who murder children so they can keep ignoring the real causes of poverty. Get real.

Economics and demographics is neutral. Government social programs are funded by the taxes of those who work. No one else can do it. So when population control causes population ageing, the result is that there is a growing proportion of aged persons who must be supported by a shrinking working class. Population ageing is the direct result of idiotic measures like the RH/Abortion Bill. The only way to prevent that is to have population growth. Wake up!

all these are products of the ignorance and greed of the population.. the government only reflects the masses... a corrupted populace would always produce corrupted leaders... the people follow their feelings.. not their logic...

Population control will NOT address any of these issues. Following the Church's teachings, however, WILL.

atleast im not some agency's or church's lapdog.

So you're just a pro-RH lapdog. THAT'S FAR, FAR WORSE.

ohthe media said that the rise in hiv/cases is due to the church's obsolete teachings bout sexuality.

Oh well... the media says lots of dumb things. But the scientific studies show a different story. The recent rise in HIV cases is due to people NOT following the Church's teachings (like practicing promiscuity and homosxual acts) and using methods that promote irresponsible beahvior (such as condoms). You should use your intelligence and stick to the facts.




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NO TO THE COERCIVE RH/ABORTION BILL (HB 5043)
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)