All about Roman Catholicism here.

[weedmeister2]

---

@bcasabee: anytime, bro... looking forward to your ideas on the matter...

[Desert Father]

Let me point out that your first sentence springs forth not from the Scriptures, but from the DEI VERBUM penned by Pope Paul VI, meaning tradition comes first for you. Now, what gives the pope power to promulgate such dogmas? When Paul says "Stand firm, and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.", he means traditions taught by the APOSTLES... do not distort this to serve modern-day money making pontiffs.... for where in the bible does it say that there shall be a POPE? And why do i look to the scriptures as sola scriptura? For the exact same reason that Paul wrote this:
[ /quote]

The first Church leaders were the Twelve Apostles, with Peter as head (Jesus said to Peter:Â* "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Mt 16:17-19) In the Bible, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John mention Peter's name 195 times - more than all the other Apostles put together!

The special and divinely established role of Peter the Rock (chief shepherd of the Church from 32 A.D. to 67 A.D.) was immediately passed on to Linus (67-76 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by Anacletus (76-88 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by Clement of Rome (88-97 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by the next 261 popes. The current successor of Peter is Pope Benedict XVI. We call him pope ("Papa" in Italian), which means Father, because Peter was a Father to the first Christians. Peter was the Rock on whom Jesus built His church. Jesus, speaking in his native language of Aramaic, changed Peter's name from Simon to "Rock" ("Kepha" or "Cephas" in Aramaic). In English, "Rock" is translated as "Peter."Â* According to the Gospel of John,Â* He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, "So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas" (which means Peter). (John 1:42)

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2 Timothy 3:12; 4:5)

Scripture is the only infallible rule for faith and practice" -- hence, all "churches" and any "traditions" (today) are fallible.

Sola Scriptura is UNBIBLICAL!


1) there is no direct teaching of SS in Scripture (OT or NT)

(a) although possibly implied by 2 Tim 3:15-17; 1 Cor 4:6; etc)

(b) denied by 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 2 Tim 1:13-14; 2:2; etc)


1Cor.11[[2] "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you."

2 Thess 2:15 "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."

2 Tim 1:13-14 "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus;
guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us."

(2) there is no statement that apostolic oral revelation would cease to be a rule of faith (was argued it has in fact "passed away")

(3) or at least SS is "non-biblical" since the NT is silent about the "passing away" of the apostolic oral revelation (cf. Matt 24:35; Acts 2:42; 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Pet 1:25; 2 Pet 3:2; etc)

Still in violation of "You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth"... or does your pope say otherwise? Hehehe, and do not even say that 99% of your religion's members do not worship the statues... they even line up just to kiss the FEET of the crucifix and have their handkerchief touch the HOLY IDOLS... I can burn my bible in front of my pastors, knowing full well that it is not the physical bible that my soul needs, but the words inside. As for you, can you burn your idols in front of your faithful and not be lynched? you can probably get away with just being beaten to a pulp, but during the inquisition, well they would have stuffed your ***** in your mouth and burned you alive my friend.... raped and torutured your family members too....

YOu failed to refute my arguments on this so need for me to answer.Â* Answer me in an academic way not the pinilosopo method.

The Bible says that all Christians are saints and priests (Ephesians 1:1; 1 Peter 2:9), but tradition says that saints and priests are special castes within the Christian community..

We are all saints. Of course your local church would not have you believe that, lest you also believe that you are saved, thus not needing the services of your local church... no demand means no income... oh, did you know that Sacred Heart Church charges Php8,000 for a weekday wedding, and Php25,000 for a sunday wedding? anyway, i'm deviating...

Again the Sola Fide argument.Â* NUmerous text on the Bible dont agree with this. Anyway I have to cite some for the benefit of the readers.Â*

Tit. 1:15-16

15 To the pure all things are pure, but to the corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are corrupted.
16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed.

2 Tim. 3:6-8:

6] For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, [7] who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
[8] As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith;

By the way, you rant about the fees that the Catholic Church is collecting.Â* Myabe you forgot about your churches mandatory 10 PERCENT tithes to all members, rich and poor alike.Â*

[Desert Father]

Let me point out that your first sentence springs forth not from the Scriptures, but from the DEI VERBUM penned by Pope Paul VI, meaning tradition comes first for you. Now, what gives the pope power to promulgate such dogmas? When Paul says "Stand firm, and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.", he means traditions taught by the APOSTLES... do not distort this to serve modern-day money making pontiffs.... for where in the bible does it say that there shall be a POPE? And why do i look to the scriptures as sola scriptura? For the exact same reason that Paul wrote this:
[ /quote]

The first Church leaders were the Twelve Apostles, with Peter as head (Jesus said to Peter: "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Mt 16:17-19) In the Bible, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John mention Peter's name 195 times - more than all the other Apostles put together!

The special and divinely established role of Peter the Rock (chief shepherd of the Church from 32 A.D. to 67 A.D.) was immediately passed on to Linus (67-76 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by Anacletus (76-88 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by Clement of Rome (88-97 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by the next 261 popes. The current successor of Peter is Pope Benedict XVI. We call him pope ("Papa" in Italian), which means Father, because Peter was a Father to the first Christians. Peter was the Rock on whom Jesus built His church. Jesus, speaking in his native language of Aramaic, changed Peter's name from Simon to "Rock" ("Kepha" or "Cephas" in Aramaic). In English, "Rock" is translated as "Peter." According to the Gospel of John, He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, "So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas" (which means Peter). (John 1:42)

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2 Timothy 3:12; 4:5)

Scripture is the only infallible rule for faith and practice" -- hence, all "churches" and any "traditions" (today) are fallible.

Sola Scriptura is UNBIBLICAL!


1) there is no direct teaching of SS in Scripture (OT or NT)

(a) although possibly implied by 2 Tim 3:15-17; 1 Cor 4:6; etc)

(b) denied by 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 2 Tim 1:13-14; 2:2; etc)


1Cor.11[[2] "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you."

2 Thess 2:15 "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."

2 Tim 1:13-14 "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus;
guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us."

(2) there is no statement that apostolic oral revelation would cease to be a rule of faith (was argued it has in fact "passed away")

(3) or at least SS is "non-biblical" since the NT is silent about the "passing away" of the apostolic oral revelation (cf. Matt 24:35; Acts 2:42; 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Pet 1:25; 2 Pet 3:2; etc)

Still in violation of "You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth"... or does your pope say otherwise? Hehehe, and do not even say that 99% of your religion's members do not worship the statues... they even line up just to kiss the FEET of the crucifix and have their handkerchief touch the HOLY IDOLS... I can burn my bible in front of my pastors, knowing full well that it is not the physical bible that my soul needs, but the words inside. As for you, can you burn your idols in front of your faithful and not be lynched? you can probably get away with just being beaten to a pulp, but during the inquisition, well they would have stuffed your ***** in your mouth and burned you alive my friend.... raped and torutured your family members too....

YOu failed to refute my arguments on this so need for me to answer. Answer me in an academic way not the pinilosopo method.

The Bible says that all Christians are saints and priests (Ephesians 1:1; 1 Peter 2:9), but tradition says that saints and priests are special castes within the Christian community..

We are all saints. Of course your local church would not have you believe that, lest you also believe that you are saved, thus not needing the services of your local church... no demand means no income... oh, did you know that Sacred Heart Church charges Php8,000 for a weekday wedding, and Php25,000 for a sunday wedding? anyway, i'm deviating...

Again the Sola Fide argument. NUmerous text on the Bible dont agree with this. Anyway I have to cite some for the benefit of the readers.

Tit. 1:15-16

15 To the pure all things are pure, but to the corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are corrupted.
16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed.

2 Tim. 3:6-8:

6] For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, [7] who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
[8] As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith;

By the way, you rant about the fees that the Catholic Church is collecting. Myabe you forgot about your churches mandatory 10 PERCENT tithes to all members, rich and poor alike.

[Desert Father]

weedmesiter in RED.

Let me point out that your first sentence springs forth not from the Scriptures, but from the DEI VERBUM penned by Pope Paul VI, meaning tradition comes first for you. Now, what gives the pope power to promulgate such dogmas? When Paul says "Stand firm, and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.", he means traditions taught by the APOSTLES... do not distort this to serve modern-day money making pontiffs.... for where in the bible does it say that there shall be a POPE? And why do i look to the scriptures as sola scriptura? For the exact same reason that Paul wrote this:

The first Church leaders were the Twelve Apostles, with Peter as head (Jesus said to Peter:Â* "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Mt 16:17-19) In the Bible, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John mention Peter's name 195 times - more than all the other Apostles put together!

The special and divinely established role of Peter the Rock (chief shepherd of the Church from 32 A.D. to 67 A.D.) was immediately passed on to Linus (67-76 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by Anacletus (76-88 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by Clement of Rome (88-97 A.D.), who was immediately succeeded by the next 261 popes. The current successor of Peter is Pope Benedict XVI. We call him pope ("Papa" in Italian), which means Father, because Peter was a Father to the first Christians. Peter was the Rock on whom Jesus built His church. Jesus, speaking in his native language of Aramaic, changed Peter's name from Simon to "Rock" ("Kepha" or "Cephas" in Aramaic). In English, "Rock" is translated as "Peter."Â* According to the Gospel of John,Â* He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, "So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas" (which means Peter). (John 1:42)


[b]All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.[/b] I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2 Timothy 3:12; 4:5)

Scripture is the only infallible rule for faith and practice" -- hence, all "churches" and any "traditions" (today) are fallible.

Sola Scriptura is UNBIBLICAL!


1) there is no direct teaching of SS in Scripture (OT or NT)

(a) although possibly implied by 2 Tim 3:15-17; 1 Cor 4:6; etc)

(b) denied by 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 2 Tim 1:13-14; 2:2; etc)


1Cor.11[[2] "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you."

2 Thess 2:15 "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."

2 Tim 1:13-14 "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus;
guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us."

(2) there is no statement that apostolic oral revelation would cease to be a rule of faith (was argued it has in fact "passed away")

(3) or at least SS is "non-biblical" since the NT is silent about the "passing away" of the apostolic oral revelation (cf. Matt 24:35; Acts 2:42; 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Pet 1:25; 2 Pet 3:2; etc)




Still in violation of "You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth"... or does your pope say otherwise? Hehehe, and do not even say that 99% of your religion's members do not worship the statues... they even line up just to kiss the FEET of the crucifix and have their handkerchief touch the HOLY IDOLS... I can burn my bible in front of my pastors, knowing full well that it is not the physical bible that my soul needs, but the words inside. As for you, can you burn your idols in front of your faithful and not be lynched? you can probably get away with just being beaten to a pulp, but during the inquisition, well they would have stuffed your ***** in your mouth and burned you alive my friend.... raped and torutured your family members too....

YOu failed to refute my arguments on this so need for me to answer.Â* Answer me in an academic way not the pinilosopo method.



[b]The Bible says that all Christians are saints and priests (Ephesians 1:1; 1 Peter 2:9), but tradition says that saints and priests are special castes within the Christian community..[/b]

We are all saints. Of course your local church would not have you believe that, lest you also believe that you are saved, thus not needing the services of your local church... no demand means no income... oh, did you know that Sacred Heart Church charges Php8,000 for a weekday wedding, and Php25,000 for a sunday wedding? anyway, i'm deviating...

Again the Sola Fide argument.Â* NUmerous text on the Bible dont agree with this. Anyway I have to cite some for the benefit of the readers.Â*

Tit. 1:15-16

15 To the pure all things are pure, but to the corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are corrupted.
16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed.

2 Tim. 3:6-8:

6] For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, [7] who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
[8] As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith;

By the way, you rant about the fees that the Catholic Church is collecting.Â* Myabe you forgot about your churches mandatory 10 PERCENT tithes to all members, rich and poor alike.Â*

[MrBiddle]

If you wish to bother to read, you can copy-paste this to a notepad or word processor, I've decreased the size ... it might just minimize an iota page space...

Why The Bible Alone?
Roman Catholic Objections to
Sola Scriptura (The Bible Alone)
Every Christian should pay careful attention to the Roman Catholic challenge that the Bible alone is not the only Word of God. If there are other sources of equal weight and magnitude as the Bible, then Christian doctrine, stemming only from Bible exegesis, must be open to correction from outside the Bible. For, if there are other Words of God, Christians need to re-evaluate all that they believe in light of additional revelation. But are there other Words of God? Here is a summary of the ongoing debate with the RC religion and others who claim additional God breathed authorities.

Here is the question posed by the Roman Catholic apologist, “Where in Scripture is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura taught?� Since you trust the Bible alone, where does the Bible say, “Trust me alone?�

Here are some answers that Christians need to articulate. The Christian needs to point out that not each and every doctrine taught in Scripture is taught explicitly by book, chapter and verse. Many doctrines are taught by way of logical and necessary deduction. For instance the word ‘Trinity’ is not used in the Bible. Few would argue that the Trinity is not more implicitly taught than explicitly. The same may be said of the righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer for justification. This doctrine surfaces in light of the overwhelming implicit evidence.

Furthermore, the Christian needs to point out that even Roman Catholicism admits that the Bible is at least one part of the inspired Word of God.

The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired they are truly the Word of God. DV 24, NCC #135.

However, Roman Catholics maintain that the Bible is not the only Word of God.

Taking this admission, that the Bible is at least one part of the divinely inspired Word of God, it seems incumbent upon Rome, which does not accept the Bible as the only Word of God, to bear the burden of proving there are other sources of equal weight.

1. The Roman Catholic religion must prove that Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium are so closely connected that one cannot stand without the others. They must prove that Scripture and their Tradition and Magisterium must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments. Finally, Rome must prove that other sources can be summoned to give “certainty about God’s revealed truth� other than the Bible alone.

By definition, the Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Roman Religion consisting in :

“The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or scattered over the earth, propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to be held by all the faithful.� Ott page 299 from De Fide

“The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.� Ott page 299 De Fide par. 8.

2. Rome has to prove their Magisterium has Divine Authority to produce Divinely inspired tradition which is equal to the Scripture. This is more than Apostolic Succession. This is a passing down of the gift of inspiration itself.

In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them “their own position of teaching authority.� This sacred Tradition, then, and the sacred Scripture of both Testaments, are like a mirror, in which the Church, during its pilgrim journey here on earth, contemplates God, from whom she receives everything...... Dei Verbum 8.

The Tradition that comes from the apostles makes progress in the Church, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

“The Catholic Church holds that in order for the meaning of Sacred Scripture to be properly understood, the Church must have recourse to its living Tradition- i.e., the infallible interpretation of the apostolic depositum fidei. And this interpretation is guaranteed by an infallible Magisterium.� Madrid Article on Sola Scriptura.

In light of such claims, the Christian needs to remind the Roman Catholic that the Apostle Paul gives fair warning in the Bible to not go beyond what is written:

1CO 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

3. By what source or method will Rome prove Apostolic Succession, Apostolic Inspirational Succession and Apostolic Infallible Teaching Succession? There is only one Standard that we know of that can qualify its equal. The genuine article is the only sure way of establishing the validity of an identical standard. Real Gold is used to expose Fool’s Gold. Real Treasury Notes are used to expose the Counterfeit. If everyone agrees that Gold is the standard, then it must be used to test the imitation. If everyone agrees that The Federal Government issues a real twenty dollar bill then it alone is the standard to show the forgery. Since Christians and Roman Catholics alike affirm the Bible as God’s Word, the Bible should be the standard against which all other alleged revelation should be measured.

For Roman Catholic claims to be true, the Bible should teach Apostolic Succession, Inspirational Succession and Apostolic Infallible Interpretational Succession . Rome cannot simply declare the right to Inspirational Succession anymore than Joseph Smith or May Ellen White can declare their own writings on a par with Scripture. But, Rome not only maintains Inspirational Succession, it declares Infallible Interpretational Succession as well.

Does the Bible teach that the apostles passed along to others an ability to interpret infallibly or to produce revelation on a par with Scripture? Where do the apostles give a command to their successors to speak as though they were inspired and to bestow onto themselves authority as though it was on a level of the apostles?

4. Furthermore, Rome claims that the ‘traditions’ mentioned by the apostle Paul in the Bible exist outside of the Bible as a separate source of divinely inspired writing. Rome has to prove that the Traditions mentioned in Scripture [as coming from an Apostle] were not incorporated into the text of Scripture. Here are the ‘tradition’ passages as they are found in the Bible.

“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which were taught, whether by word or by letter from us.� 2 Thess. 2:15

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. 2TH 3:6

Now I praise you because you remember me in everything, and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. 1CO 11:2

The Bible does not tell us that there is a pool of Tradition which exists separately from the Bible. Nor does the Bible give to this alleged tradition the weight of added certainty of the revelation of God that is necessary for our Salvation or Sanctification or Service. When things of substance are spoken of in the Bible, the apostles appealed to the Written Word and not to an alleged outside source of tradition.

ROM 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

ROM 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed."

GAL 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman."

MAT 22:29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God.

LUK 24:27 And beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

JOH 5:39 "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me;

ACT 17:2 And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

JOH 20:30 Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

ROM 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous man shall live by faith."

1JO 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

It must be pointed out that the Bible foresees the real possibility of weakened minds being taken captive by the traditions of men. This is strictly forbidden in the Bible.

We are not to be taken captive by the traditions of men:

MAR 7:9 He was also saying to them, "You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. MAR 7:13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that. "

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. COL 2:8

In essence, Rome believes that the Apostles produced the inspired written Word and inspired Oral Traditions. Rome alledges these Oral Traditions are different from the written Word. However, Rome cannot produce anything material that can be identified as the “Oral Tradition� of Paul or Peter or Luke or John. Nobody can!

Witness the Catholic Encyclopedia:

“[Tradition]... is not an inanimate thing passed hand to hand; it is not, properly speaking, an assemblage of doctrines and institutions consigned to books or other monuments.... it must be represented as a current of life and truth coming from God through Christ and through the Apostles to the last of the faithful who repeats his creed and learns his catechism.� Taken from McCarthy: The Gospel According to Rome page 291. He quotes Catholic Encyclopeida. Page 9 of Volume 15.

In light of this, Rome takes the next step and asserts Inspirational Succession to manufacture revealed truth as well as Infallible Interpretation to construct yet more revelation. Rome, in effect, gives out Revelation from God on a level equal to the Bible [witness the alleged Assumption of Mary] under the delusion that it owns this superiority. In essence, since Rome has failed miserably to produce any material evidence of a Body of Revelation known as Apostolic Tradition, so, they have made up their own. Tradition has become what Rome says it is. The real position of Rome is Sola Ecclesia. Only the Church.

There are many voices claiming to be the Voice of God. There are many Traditions. By what shall we measure these many voices and many traditions?

Material Sufficiency and Formal Sufficiency:

Material Sufficiency means that the Bible contains all that is necessary for salvation.

Formal Sufficiency means that the Bible is clear and that no infallible teaching Magisterium is necessary to interpret it.

In reality, Rome believes in neither: Material and Formal Sufficiency are negated by the Roman Catholic contention that the Magisterium holds the same weight as Scripture and tradition. Material and Formal Sufficiency are further blocked by the RC insistence that their Magisterium alone can interpret Scripture. As an example, let us examine the Decree of Pope Pius XII on the Assumption of Mary as reported by a Roman Catholic writer. Notice how the RC Magisterium decree trumps tradition as well as Scripture.

“Pope Pius defined Mary’s assumption as a truth divinely revealed. Of the two sources of revelation, theologians commonly say the Assumption was implicit in Tradition, in spite of the practical absence of documentary evidence before A.D. 300. Yet the Pope finally declared that the doctrine was in revelation. How do we know? On the answer to this question rests a new insight into Christian Tradition that has been gaining momentum since the eighteenth century. Briefly stated, Tradition is coming to be identified more with the Church’s magisterium or teaching office and less exclusively as the source along with Scripture of the truths of salvation... “Together with the sources of revelation (Scripture and Tradition) God has given to his Church a living magisterium to elucidate and explain what is contained in the deposit of faith only obscurely, and, as it were, by implication.� The degree of obscurity, we may add, is unimportant. Given this faculty by her founder, whose Spirit of truth abides with her at all times, the Church can infallibly discern what belongs to revelation no matter how cryptic the contents may be.� John Hardon Catholic Catechism 1975 page 161.

We see quite a different story emerging from the New Testament: [67 A.D. Final Letter:]

2TI 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.

2TI 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2TI 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

Peter knew nothing of Apostolic Succession. [Last letter 64 A.D.]

2PE 3:1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder,

2PE 3:2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

2PE 1:13 And I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, 2PE 1:14 knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

2PE 1:15 And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you may be able to call these things to mind.

Point: The Bible does not have to assert that it is the only source of Authority if no other source of equal authority can be produced. If it alone stands at the end of the day as the only Authoritative Word from God then it is Sola Scriptura by default!

[Desert Father]

Arguments against sola scriptura

1. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not taught anywhere in the Bible

2. The Bible Indicates that In Addition to the Written Word, we are to accept Oral Tradition (1 Corinthians 11:2,)

3. The Bible Calls the Church and not the Bible the "Pillar and Ground of the Truth." ( 1 Timothy 3:15 )

4. Christ tells us to submit to the Authority of the Church (Matthew 18:15-1

5 Scripture itself states that it is insufficient of itself as a teacher, but rather needs an interpreter. 2 Peter 3:16

6. The first Christians did not have a Bible

7. The Church produced the Bible not vice-versa

8.Â* The idea of the Scripture's Authority existing apart from the authority of the Teacher Church is utterly foreign to the Early Church.

9. The Canon of the Bible was not settled until the 4th Century.

10. The Belief that Scripture is "Self-Authenticating" Does Not Hold Up under Examination

11. None of the Original Biblical Manuscripts is Extant.

12. The Bible Was Not Available to Individual Believers until the 15th Century.

13. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Did Not Exist Prior to the 14th Century.

14. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Produces Bad Fruit, Namely, Division and Disunity.

15. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Does Not Allow for a Final, Definitive Interpretation of any given Passage of Scripture.

16. The Protestant Bible Is Missing 7 Entire Books

17. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Had its Source in Luther’s Own Emotional Problems.

[mannyamador]

Flawed and without evidence? do you even read the bible? do you believe that the bible is GOD'S WORD? THE WORD OF GOD, are you familiar with that phrase? If not, then i can understand your hesitation to take the Bible's words as law.

Please cite me even one single verse in the Bible that clearly and explicitly teaches sola scriptura: that the Bible is the SOLE source of doctrine for Christians. You won't find any. So-called "bible christians" have been trying to find it for over 500 years. That pretty much sinks your line of thinking.

[mannyamador]

Weedmeister is correct, but Manny and his kind will try to reconcile these differences with his usual cunning sophistry

And to this day you are still unable to back up any of your wacky claims with any real evidence. You are truly the master of sophistry.

[mannyamador]

In other words, our deeds don't score plus points as if our salvation depended on them... 2 but because of salvation good works IS our calling.

This personal interpretation palinly contradicts what is in James 2:14-26. I ask all, read the verses. Don't interpret them, just read them plainly. Faith alone does not save. Good works are REQUIRED. Period. Read the verses yourseves and see.

[Desert Father]

Neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever mentioned writing a canon that would become the sole rule of faith. The Scriptures do not say; "Upon this rock I will build my Bible." The Scriptures say, "Upon this rock I will build my Church" (St Matthew 16:16-19).

The Scriptures do not say, "His intent was that now, through the Bible, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."

On the contrary, the Scriptures say, "His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Ephes 3:10-11).

Neither does the Scriptures say, "if I am delayed, you will have the Bible to read in God's household, which is the book of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."

Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Saint Paul the Apostle clearly records, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15 NIV).