All about Roman Catholicism here.

[Desert Father]

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Luther did not know what St. Paul meant by that word faith. He thought it meant confidence that the
merits of Christ apply to me -- there is no scholarly support at all for this.

Instead Paul means:
1) belief in God's revelation'
2) confidence in His promises;
3) obedience to His commands (Rom 1:5) , all done in love.

Very different from Luther.The very basis of his church is gone.

Even St. Paul talks similarly at times; for instance, in Romans 2:6-13: "He will repay to every man according to his works ... For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." As we will explore later, St. Paul does not mean that works earn salvation-but violations of the law can earn eternal ruin.

Thus, St. Paul does not disagree with St. James, but his use of the word faith is much broader. By faith, Paul means total adherence of a person to God in mind and will. This, in turn, implies several things: If God speaks a truth, we believe with our minds. This is the sense St. James had in mind (see 1 Thes. 2:13; 2 Cor. 5:7). If God makes a promise, we are confident He will keep it (see Gal. 5:5; Rom. 5:1; 1 Thes. 5:. If God gives a command, we obey (see Rom. 1:5). And all should be done in love (Gal. 5:6).

In contrast, the Lutheran Augsburg Confession taught (20:23), "Faith does not mean knowledge of an event ... it means a faith which believes ... also in the effect of an event, namely ... the remission of sins, i.e., that we have, through Christ, grace, righteousness, and remission of sins."

Modern Protestants often express this as meaning that one takes Christ as his personal Savior, or, has confidence that the merits of Christ are credited to his account. It is as if there were a ledger with a credit and a debit page for each man. If he "takes Christ as his personal Savior," he can write on the credit page the infinite merits of Christ. On the debit page go his sins: past, present and future. Of course the balance is always more than favorable.

Hence, they see no need for confession, no need even to make an act of contrition even out of love. Protestants believe that Jesus paid in advance for one's sins, and nothing more needs to be done. Hence, Luther wrote to his associate Melanchthon, "Sin greatly, but believe more greatly."113

Luther has been unjustly maligned for saying this because it sounds as if he encouraged sin, which he surely did not mean to do.

What he meant was that no matter how much you sin, you need do nothing to gain forgiveness except believe that Christ paid the bill in advance. You are infallibly saved.Â* I dont think this is what Saint Paul meant.Â*

[tolstoi]

^^welcome back brod mosimos :mrgreen:

[weedmeister2]

@mosimos & mannyamador:

why did you guys selectively answer the questions that are abstract, but not my question, which is practical? Again I ask you:

If your Pope tells you to do something which contradicts bible scripture, would you do it?

[MrBiddle]

If your Pope tells you to do something which contradicts bible scripture, would you do it?

Let us wait for Manny's answer I am NOT the one being asked but I would imagine that even if they get the notion that it contradicts Scripture they will always find ways to reconcile it with hollow discourses and devious sophistry that will make it appear to be valid,.... thus masking the contradiction if any.....

[weedmeister2]

Well, Martin Luther wasn't really great, in MY opinion. He was quite possibly half-insane, extremely prejudiced, and a very dishonest man. If you read up on him, check on his opinion of the Jews, his flip-flops on doctrine, and his marriage.

God bless!

Well if you wanna start discrediting leaders of the church, I suggest you look towards your popes, my friend.

Just google "POPE ALEXANDER VI" , along with any of these words: "ORGIES", "MURDER", "INCEST", "NEPOTISM", etc... you get my drift.... oh, and he was reputed to have commited his first murder AT AGE 12. Â*:mrgreen:

[tolstoi]

as the saying in the army that goes: 'salute the rank not the officer'.....

as a Catholic, i only embraces the teachings of my church and not the clergymen, for they are bound to be flawed like everybody else :mrgreen:

[weedmeister2]

Let us wait for Manny's answer I am NOT the one being asked but I would imagine that even if they get the notion that it contradicts Scripture they will always find ways to reconcile it with hollow discourses and devious sophistry that will make it appear to be valid,.... thus masking the contradiction if any.....

@MrBiddle: Welcome bro! Thanks for expounding on the words of Paul... as for the above, well we know how it works.... Â*

[MrBiddle]

@MrBiddle: Welcome bro! Thanks for expounding on the words of Paul... as for the above, well we know how it works....Â*

Yes, I hope you stick around too Weedmeister, ...

[bcasabee]

If you are going to ask me.........Then my answer would be no...........

Could you please list down those statements by Popes which contradicts Bible scriptures. I am just curious about them............I hope those are not the same things mentioned in the thread.........."Mistakes of the Catholic Church".......In which.....our Great Pope, John Paul II has asked for forgiveness.............If possible......I would appreciate it if you can list down statements issued by Pope John Paul II which contradicts the Bible scriptures............I am more interested in discussing him than the past ones........we live in a modern time.......so it would be more appropriate to talk about a modern Pope also....just for practical purposes...Thanks in advance..........................

@mosimos & mannyamador:

why did you guys selectively answer the questions that are abstract, but not my question, which is practical? Again I ask you:

If your Pope tells you to do something which contradicts bible scripture, would you do it?

[weedmeister2]

not by one pope, but by many...

Since the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, therefore he speaks for the whole church, and the church's actions or TRADITIONS emanate from the Pontiff's Seat... here are the GRAVE CONTRADICTIONS between SCRIPTURE and TRADITION:


(1) The Bible teaches that the office of bishop and presbyter are the same office (Titus 1:5-7), but tradition says they are different offices.

(2) The Bible teaches that all have sinned except Jesus (Romans 3:10-12, Hebrews 4:15), but tradition says that Mary was sinless.

(3) The Bible teaches that Christ offered His sacrifice once for all (Hebrews 7:27, 9:28, 10:10), but tradition says that the priest sacrifices Christ on the altar at mass.

(4) The Bible says that we are not to bow down to statues (Exodus 20:4, 5), but tradition says that we should bow down to statues.

(5) The Bible says that all Christians are saints and priests (Ephesians 1:1; 1 Peter 2:9), but tradition says that saints and priests are special castes within the Christian community.

(6) The Bible says that Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), but tradition says Mary is co-mediator with Christ.

(7) The Bible says that all Christians should know that they have eternal life (1 John 5:13), but tradition says that all Christians cannot and should not know that they have eternal life.



By the above, we can CLEARLY, and WITHOUT A DOUBT, conclude that for the VATICAN, SCRIPTURES hold no meaning, except when they serve the VATICAN'S PURPOSE.


Remember the words of JESUS to the PHARISEES:

“You nullify the Word of God for the sake of your tradition� (Matthew 15:6)