Legalize Abortion?

[mannyamador]

---

Raski, you seem to be a very angry and disturbed person. Have you talked to anyone about it? Seriously. This is not an attempt to embarrass you but just some friendly advice.


Back to topic (re: the anti-life RH Bill's mandatory s3x education). This is what happens when we let the government dictate what schools have to teach. The RH Bill also seeks to impose one way of thinking about s3x and values and will tolerate no other. What next? The RH Taliban?

Venezuelans Protest New Law Banning Religious Education, Imposing Socialism in Nation's Schools
By Matthew Cullinan Hoffman, Latin America Correspondent
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/aug/09081711.html

CARACAS, August 17, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Venezuelans erupted into protest this weekend in response to a new law that seeks to indoctrinate the nation's students in the "21st Century Socialism" of Hugo Chavez and eliminate religious instruction from the nation's schools.

The law will also reportedly establish censorship of the press, prohibiting communications that "produce terror in children, incite to hatred, and offend the healthy values of the Venezuelan people and the mental and physical health of the population."

Students peacefully protesting the new law were met with tear gas and water sprayed by the police, as well as rocks and sticks thrown by Chavez supporters, according to multiple media accounts.

A group of reporters from opposition newspapers, also in a protest against the law, were assaulted and injured by pro-Chavez forces, sparking protests and demands for prosecution of the culprits. Chavez denounced the attack and says he is investigating.

However, Venezuela's increasingly dictatorial president was unapologetic and defiant in his defense of the new Education Law.

"We have to dismantle the system of capitalist bourgeois education. Now, the law is obligatory, university authorities that do not arise from a legitimate process may not be recognized. Enough with the dictatorship in the universities!"

At the signing of the law on Saturday, Chavez said that it was necessary for "the profound revolution, the creation of new men and women, the socialist revolution," and added that "true democracy can only exist in socialism."

The law gives Chavez an iron grip over the entire educational system, public and private, allowing him to decide what must be taught, which professors may be hired or fired, and how many students may be admitted to particular schools, reports the Argentinian newspaper La Nacion.

The new law also gives power to "community councils" to be organized and paid for by the government, which will act as "agents of education" with the "pedagogical role of liberator for the formation of a new citizenry," according to the Spanish newspaper El Pais.

Rumors have circulated for weeks that the councils will have the power to remove children from the custody of their parents as early as three years of age, in order to raise them according to socialist values, although some officials have denied the claim.

Chavez has warned that any universities that refuse to comply with the new law will lose their government recognition. However, leaders from the nations private universities have announced their intention to initiate a "general state of protest."


More info on abstinence and purity education for the youth at
True Love Waits Philippines

DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS. NO TO THE RH BILL!
Please sign the online petition against the RH bill (HB 5043)

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

i think manny is the one who is close minded and want to impose his abstinence on everyone even though it will not suit their lifestyle...

give the people the list of choices then let them decide which scheme they want to use...



catholic schools have the highest number of students engaging in premarital ***...

most Filipino by the age of 21 have already engage in sexual activity, and most of them got the their knowledge on *** from porn magazine, pornographic movies and peers...

@wakka

you can send your child to a catholic school instead dont worry the government cant force catholic school on their curriculum on *** ed...

the bill empowers women.. accept it..

the bill does not take away from the person the right to choose what kind of family palnning they think applicable to them.. they are not forcing you to use contraceptives so dont force unto them your belief on natural family planning... practice it.. and let others practice their religon este their lifestyle...

[mannyamador]

you can send your child to a catholic school instead dont worry the government cant force catholic school on their curriculum on *** ed...

Have you actually read section 12 of the RH Bill? The Bill, if passed, gives the government power to FORCE their curriculum on both public and private schools. Catholic schools are private schools and will fall under the jurisdiction of the RH Bill if it is passed. The RH Bill denies choice.

Here is the first paragraph of the relevant provision in HB 5043:

SEC. 12. Mandatory Age-Appropriate Reproductive Health Education. - Recognizing the importance of reproductive health rights in empowering the youth and developing them into responsible adults, Reproductive Health Education in an age-appropriate manner shall be taught by adequately trained teachers starting from Grade 5 up to Fourth Year High School. In order to assure the prior training of teachers on reproductive health, the implementation of Reproductive Health Education shall commence at the start of the school year one year following the effectivity of this Act. The POPCOM, in coordination with the Department of Education, shall formulate the Reproductive Health Education curriculum, which shall be common to both public and private schools and shall include related population and development concepts in addition to the following subjects and standards: . . .

Kindly read the text of the RH Bill.

As you can see, there is NO provision whatsoever for allowing parents to opt out of this program, There is also NO provision for private schools to formulate their own programs according to their beliefs. None. No choice whatsoever.

This provision in HB 5043 denies parents their right to determine the education of their children in a very sensitive and personal area. It suppresses choice. We have every reason to be worried.




DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS! NO TO THE COERCIVE, ABORTION-PROMOTING RH BILL (HB 5043)!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

[raski]

i think manny is the one who is close minded and want to impose his abstinence on everyone even though it will not suit their lifestyle...

give the people the list of choices then let them decide which scheme they want to use...



catholic schools have the highest number of students engaging in premarital ***...

most Filipino by the age of 21 have already engage in sexual activity, and most of them got the their knowledge on *** from porn magazine, pornographic movies and peers...

@wakka

you can send your child to a catholic school instead dont worry the government cant force catholic school on their curriculum on *** ed...

the bill empowers women.. accept it..

the bill does not take away from the person the right to choose what kind of family palnning they think applicable to them.. they are not forcing you to use contraceptives so dont force unto them your belief on natural family planning... practice it.. and let others practice their religon este their lifestyle...

Haha, yes I see you've detected his anal retentiveness and sad, prudish ways. I think it has a lot to do with pent up sexually repressed feelings he has

@mannyamador: Where in that post have I shown any hostility or hatred? The correct feeling is pity, yes I pity you, you small person in your tiny four-cornered world of persistent blindness subject wholly to the will and dictats of priests and the sanctimonious. I pity you because you post reams upon reams of copy/paste "articles" that nobody save yourself is ever going to bother to read. Instead of summarizing all your arguments into a succinct multi-paragraph post, you do the lazy thing and copy/paste crap you extracted from God knows where. What a pity, you might have actually had something someone would care about in there but instead nobody cares and all you've managed to do is waste your time. Sad!

I also pity you because I'm starting to think giddyboy is right and he had a point about your sexuality. I have nothing against homosexuals, and have nothing but the greatest pity for those who feel they have to repress their sexual urges in the name of religion. Speaking of psychologically stable, no heterosexual male who is not mentally ill would ever agree with the saying "True love waits".. that is something I would expect a woman to say, or a gay man, but do correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption, I am merely concerned about your mental wellbeing.. it is not psychologically healthy to remain so sexually repressed. Virginity is overrated...

[kamikaze_007]

..in my opinion..NO..

..i am faithful to my religion..it is against the commandments..no matter how people put it..for me it is still killing..

[mannyamador]

@mannyamador: Where in that post have I shown any hostility or hatred?

Everywhere really. Please see someone about your deep anger.

Pardon me, however, if I don't take your advice on how to post. I am quite sure you do not have the pro-life movement's interests in mind.

Finally, check out the TLW Philippines website. Lots of healthy males and females running the program. They thought up the slogan since it is, after all true. Sometimes males think. Read it with an open mind. You might learn something. It isn't a Catholic organization so you won't hate them as much. One warning though: the site is for young people so if you're over 25 it might seem a bit cheesy. The link is below. The Country Director (I think that's his position) is Derek Ross.


More info on abstinence and purity education for the youth at
True Love Waits Philippines

[raski]

Everywhere really. Please see someone about your deep anger.

Pardon me, however, if I don't take your advice on how to post. I am quite sure you do not have the pro-life movement's interests in mind.

Finally, check out the TLW Philippines website. Lots of healthy males and females running the program. They thought up the slogan since it is, after all true. Sometimes males think. Read it with an open mind. You might learn something. It isn't a Catholic organization so you won't hate them as much. One warning though: the site is for young people so if you're over 25 it might seem a bit cheesy. The link is below.


More info on abstinence and purity education for the youth at
True Love Waits Philippines

OK mannyamador, I apologize if I came off as hostile because I really did not intend to be and still do not think I really was. I don't discount the fact that there may be guys who really believe in that, but my personal belief is most will not succeed. If they are successful, then more power to them. But I haven't met many guys who remain virgins past 25. As a matter of fact, there aren't that many girls who remain virgins either past that age.

There are also studies that show that most people who sign these so-called "purity pledges" ended up breaking them and engaging in premarital *** anyway. That is where contraceptives and birth control steps in to prevent these people from suffering a disaster in their life. If these movements were more successful than they are, we wouldn't be here. Who wouldn't want people to do it naturally if they really could, but they can't and so here we are. These medicines are the safety net for when these well-intentioned but ultimately unsuccessful programs fail to do what their lobbyists like yourself claim they can do...

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

Have you actually read section 12 of the RH Bill? The Bill, if passed, gives the government power to FORCE their curriculum on both public and private schools. Catholic schools are private schools and will fall under the jurisdiction of the RH Bill if it is passed. The RH Bill denies choice.

Here is the first paragraph of the relevant provision in HB 5043:

SEC. 12. Mandatory Age-Appropriate Reproductive Health Education. - Recognizing the importance of reproductive health rights in empowering the youth and developing them into responsible adults, Reproductive Health Education in an age-appropriate manner shall be taught by adequately trained teachers starting from Grade 5 up to Fourth Year High School. In order to assure the prior training of teachers on reproductive health, the implementation of Reproductive Health Education shall commence at the start of the school year one year following the effectivity of this Act. The POPCOM, in coordination with the Department of Education, shall formulate the Reproductive Health Education curriculum, which shall be common to both public and private schools and shall include related population and development concepts in addition to the following subjects and standards: . . .

Kindly read the text of the RH Bill.

As you can see, there is NO provision whatsoever for allowing parents to opt out of this program, There is also NO provision for private schools to formulate their own programs according to their beliefs. None. No choice whatsoever.

This provision in HB 5043 denies parents their right to determine the education of their children in a very sensitive and personal area. It suppresses choice. We have every reason to be worried.




DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS! NO TO THE COERCIVE, ABORTION-PROMOTING RH BILL (HB 5043)!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

doest it state how the teacher will handle the subject? or how she should convey the *** ed to the student? NO.

mostly the government just let the teacher have some trainings/seminars on the subjects, and what the topics the teacher should include... alangn namn lagyan about ants sexuality and practices...

hindi nan siguro maglagay ang gobyeno doon ng practical test noh? FYI... stat shows most parents dont talk about *** with their children..

bisan maghimo pa ta poll diri kung asa naka learn ang mga atw about *** last gyud ang parents... tahts is why nakahunhuan ang gov nahimo-on siyang mandatory kay *** has been a taboo subject sa filipino family...

[mannyamador]

OK mannyamador, I apologize if I came off as hostile...

OK! No problem. Hatchet buried. Thanks!

There are also studies that show that most people who sign these so-called "purity pledges" ended up breaking them and engaging in premarital *** anyway.

Yes, there is a failure rate. But I hope you won't mind if some groups try to improve the success rate (or at the very least get them to reduce the number of s3x partners). We know it's an uphill fight. In relation to the HB 5043, we think that the RH Bill, if passed as is, will make that job very much harder.

There are also many studies which show that abstinence programs work better than "comprehensive" s3x education which includes contraceptives. And studies that show that contraceptive usage still leads to more unwanted pregnancies and more demand for abortion. So we do have scientific basis for our advocacy of abstinence programs.

In any case, if people choose to use contraceptives we can't legally stop them (unless these contraceptives are also abortifacients). One of my concerns, however, is that the RH Bill in its present form will force pro-life persons to cooperate in objectionable actions (such as dispensing abortifacient contraceptives). I think no one should be forced to dispense or provide them, or be forced to refer the requesting persons to others who will do the same. The provision in the Bill relevant to this issue is Section 21 #5.

There are many issues involved in the RH Bill. Some parts of the Bill are actually commendable such as Sections 7 and 8, and all that is needed is the provision of actual funding so that these will be implemented (the Bill only requires a "best-effort" on the part of LGUs and provides no funding).

But I think there are also grave, legitimate objections to many parts of the Bill. Even some supporters of the Bill, for example, take exception to Section 12, 17 and 21 of the Bill. These aren't pro-lifers but persons who fundamentally agree to the use and promotion of contraceptives and population control, but see some serious flaws in the RH Bill.

There are ways, I think, to implement real reproductive health while avoiding the dangers posed by the RH Bill in its present form. The thing is, Lagman et al have shown little interest in productive dialogue since they will not allow those worst sections of the Bill to be deleted. But then maybe that is a negotiating tactic on their part. Perhaps their stance will change in the future if we are able to block the current attempt to get the RH Bill passed as is.

Many pro-lifers do remain hopeful that Lagman et al will have a change of heart and mind, although I admit to some skepticism about that. But you never know; future events may yet surprise me.

doest it state how the teacher will handle the subject? or how she should convey the *** ed to the student?

Well, yes, in a general way, as most laws do. The RH Bill states:

"The POPCOM, in coordination with the Department of Education, shall formulate the Reproductive Health Education curriculum, which shall be common to both public and private schools."

So there will be materials from POPCOM that will be imposed on all schools.

The point is that there will be no choice. Schools will not be allowed to make their own program based on their beliefs and own expertise. The RH Bill IMPOSES a single set of "values" instead of allowing parents and schools to formulate their own.

stat shows most parents dont talk about *** with their children..

True. But I think that is all the more reason to allow schools to formulate their own values education programs in accordance with their beliefs and allow parents to choose among them. But the RH Bill mandates the exact opposite, and that is one of the reasons why we object to it.




“Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter.” Proverbs 24:11
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute." Proverbs 31:8
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

OK! No problem. Hatchet buried. Thanks!



Yes, there is a failure rate. But I hope you won't mind if some groups try to improve the success rate (or at the very least get them to reduce the number of s3x partners). We know it's an uphill fight. In relation to the HB 5043, we think that the RH Bill, if passed as is, will make that job very much harder.

There are also many studies which show that abstinence programs work better than "comprehensive" s3x education which includes contraceptives. And studies that show that contraceptive usage still leads to more unwanted pregnancies and more demand for abortion. So we do have scientific basis for our advocacy of abstinence programs.

In any case, if people choose to use contraceptives we can't legally stop them (unless these contraceptives are also abortifacients). One of my concerns, however, is that the RH Bill in its present form will force pro-life persons to cooperate in objectionable actions (such as dispensing abortifacient contraceptives). I think no one should be forced to dispense or provide them, or be forced to refer the requesting persons to others who will do the same. The provision in the Bill relevant to this issue is Section 21 #5.

There are many issues involved in the RH Bill. Some parts of the Bill are actually commendable such as Sections 7 and 8, and all that is needed is the provision of actual funding so that these will be implemented (the Bill only requires a "best-effort" on the part of LGUs and provides no funding).

But I think there are also grave, legitimate objections to many parts of the Bill. Even some supporters of the Bill, for example, take exception to Section 12, 17 and 21 of the Bill. These aren't pro-lifers but persons who fundamentally agree to the use and promotion of contraceptives and population control, but see some serious flaws in the RH Bill.

There are ways, I think, to implement real reproductive health while avoiding the dangers posed by the RH Bill in its present form. The thing is, Lagman et al have shown little interest in productive dialogue since they will not allow those worst sections of the Bill to be deleted. But then maybe that is a negotiating tactic on their part. Perhaps their stance will change in the future if we are able to block the current attempt to get the RH Bill passed as is.

Many pro-lifers do remain hopeful that Lagman et al will have a change of heart and mind, although I admit to some skepticism about that. But you never know; future events may yet surprise me.



Well, yes, in a general way, as most laws do. The RH Bill states:

"The POPCOM, in coordination with the Department of Education, shall formulate the Reproductive Health Education curriculum, which shall be common to both public and private schools."

So there will be materials from POPCOM that will be imposed on all schools.

The point is that there will be no choice. Schools will not be allowed to make their own program based on their beliefs and own expertise. The RH Bill IMPOSES a single set of "values" instead of allowing parents and schools to formulate their own.



True. But I think that is all the more reason to allow schools to formulate their own values education programs in accordance with their beliefs and allow parents to choose among them. But the RH Bill mandates the exact opposite, and that is one of the reasons why we object to it.




“Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter.” Proverbs 24:11
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute." Proverbs 31:8
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

manny we are still in a democratic country... you are jumping into conclusion and being paranoid na ang material sa popcom kay mura ug porn magazine... ug ang mga tag POPcom kay mga parehas ni margie homes...

the government has allowed schools to have *** ed the problem is many schools still dont teach them.. unsa buhaton sa gobyerno make it into a compulsory one..

if the material is revolting you can still use the argument on moral obligation of the state to uphold morality and human dignity.. we are in a country which prohibits porno materials.. POPCOM will definitly have a sound curriculum... if not naa bitaw supreme court ir you can use cory and gandhi's method.. that is if you have a son or daughter...




abstinence program fails... base on exp..

if there is some part bill which you dont think is appropriate umm can we just talk how you think should that part be...

part by part... how the bill should be written... but still it must allow the use of contraceptives and and promote reproductive health...

how to promote your real reproductive health? through abstinence and natural family palnning? dont go there further kat basin masuko na pud sila giddy ug raski and dont use the abstinence thing becuase you, giddy and raski will just argue in circle... ang kaspa nila giddy and raski kay mu-ulbo bisan ang kaspa sa ako bana... kay dili gyud kuno na applicable...