Why We Need To Explore Space

[handsoff241]

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now were going philosophy... let's forget science.

*drags out the white board.

[grovestreet]

When, many many years ago, religion was king on this planet, people said the exact same thing--that if people didn't take religion/faith into account, then their plans and goals were "unrealistic" or doomed to fail. However, humankind seemed to hurdle that, and thus now, armed with the results of the scientific method, and technology, societies have progressed without being dictated by institutions of faith. So in essence, there was a certain "revolution" of thought that occurred, and thus catapulted societies to the 20th century.

I therefore believe that, it's not the end of the evolution of societal maturity--I am one of those who believe that humans can still evolve to a point where how you perceive "human nature" and "incentive" would have morphed into something that even you cannot comprehend nor have thought about, and that yet another type of revolution is set to occur in the future (it may be a near future, or still far future, but nonetheless, it's bound to happen).

As to the possibility of non-comprehension, just think--put yourself in the shoes of Jose Rizal, walking around in Berlin in the late 1800's. He wanted to talk to his mother back in the Philippines, but he knows he can ONLY do it via snail mail and wait for her response months later. He couldn't possibly have predicted that one day, one can just reach into his/her pocket and dial his/her mother's cellphone. This same type of inability to predict is what we have at the moment, and thus we cannot really put the nail on the coffin of the idea that "humans are permanently stuck" in a world that would be purely dependent on a monetary cycle, and that the current human nature and need for incentive will ALWAYS be around. I still think it will change. I don't care if it doesn't happen in my lifetime, but I'm ever-hopeful.

I don't think I'm blaming society as a whole. I think I'm only blaming a chosen few. The rest of humanity is just sheep. And everyone knows you can't blame sheep for being sheep.

-RODION

very well said... I was not aware that you also had this perspective on the profit incentive, rodsky. I too believe that we can transcend our current monetary system based on scarcity into a society based on sustainability and abundance. sorry off-topic. sige padayon.

[rodsky]

You really need to step away from analogies that don't really fit. Religion IS not, WAS not, NEVER something everyone had in common. Religion was NEVER a single entity that required conquering in order to proceed and today ... it has yet to be overcome ... yet we have come so far. You on the other hand propose a total 360 change for anything any real change to happen. That is a pipe dream ... and frankly ... a dismal view of the future.

Chocking it up to "we don't know what will happen" is a fallacy and unrealistic. We cannot prepare and manage for space travel in the future if we do not know the short-term future ... the long term is irrelevant. You cannot skip to it. A journey starts with a single step.

You say we will never break the confines of Earth without an economic revolution. You are hopeful for space exploration but require the human race to change our behavior that contradicts the way we've acted for thousands of years. Our economic system today when you boil it down to the essentials ... is something even cavemen did. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. That is being human. There is no true altruistic motive. That is not going to change anytime soon and waiting for that to change is sad. We might indeed need the five billion years the TS speaks of before we can begin real space exploration.

You cannot blame the few who run the world without blaming humanity. People with power have always paved the path of humanity. Again, trying to change that is unrealistic. Rizal may have not been able to phantom taking out a cellphone and calling family in the Philippines while walking through Germany, but I can assure you, the Pharaohs of Egypt knew exactly how power worked ... and still works. Rizal, a hero in the Philippines ... ultimately isn't even a blip in paving the human road to the future.



You are a dreamer. Perhaps dreaming while still being grounded to reality is more productive in advancing space exploration. You require a revolution in society, economics, and human nature. Getting to Mars is easier than that.

I'm not even proposing anything. Anything I say is even irrelevant in all this. I'm just saying that, if we put all this in the perspective of evolution, this change that I'm talking about, against the backdrop of geologic time, is not only possible, its inevitable. Granted, it could take eons to get there, but it will happen. All that one needs to do is look at the track record of evolution that has happened on this planet since the Pre-Cambrian era.

But even if I do not belong to those distant futures, I think I still have the right to dream about such future events, because dreaming inspires future generations, and this continuous string of people "longing to do stuff yet they can't do it because they don't have the technology and will" becomes more and more reinforced until finally, the day arrives when the technology, the means, the will, and the commitment of humans to do what they wanted to do, can be achieved.

I know you hate my analogies but again, it's like this. When Leonardo da Vinci started to draw those fantastic things in his sketchbooks, yes, they were fantastic, outlandish and "impossible ideas" to the people around him. Tanks, helicopters, airplanes, all possible now, yet impossible during the time of da Vinci. The only thing he lacked at the time, was the technology (materials, methods, techniques). But, he still drew them anyway. And it kept inspiring people until one day, when the time was ripe, people finally got the technology to do and create the stuff that he imagined about. You'll probably say "If Leonardo wasn't born, the helicopter would have been invented anyway." But how sure are we that things could have evolved in this manner?

So basically, that could probably be one reason why I still like to talk about why it is important to tell people about space travel and space exploration. It is to make more dreamers, and in turn those dreamers will inspire other dreamers, until the day that the technology, and the maturity of the society has reached a point where it can all be doable.

-RODION

[Kenshiro]

Blame it to religion why we can't explore space.

Some of these scientist who believed in God were the great contributors of Astronomy.

"It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity."

Sir Francis Bacon

"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

Isaac Newton

[rodsky]

Blame it to religion why we can't explore space.

Some of these scientist who believed in God were the great contributors of Astronomy.


Sir Francis Bacon


Isaac Newton

Just because they were "great men" doesn't mean they can't be wrong about things.

Newton was wrong about the way gravity works (Einstein's relativity changed all that). Meaning, he could be also wrong about a "creator".

-RODION

[handsoff241]

Blame it to religion why we can't explore space.

I invite you to post a thread in SnO for that matter.

[vern]

@rodsky ... space travel is not part of biological evolution. Evolution does not decree anything to be inevitable. All it does tell us that the probability of us going extinct is far higher than us reaching for the stars. Your argument for evolutionary inevitability is wrong and a logical fallacy.

Like I have said many times, feel free to dream ... but dreams not rooted in reality remain dreams. You love giving analogies about these great minds and what they dreamed ... yet you fail to take into account that for their dreams to come true, years, decades, centuries of the REAL world happened not because they dreamed but because there was a NEED to make those dreams a reality.

You say I hate analogies but follow up with an equally out of place analogy? Your analogies might inspire and give *some* people goosebumps, but this is the science forum and we call upon ourselves to present evidence ... real evidence ... real answers ... real solutions. Dreaming might as well be religion or science fiction. That is not what we discuss here.

Acta Non Verba. Action, not words.

[rodsky]

Acta Non Verba. Action, not words.

I do act in my own little ways. Like why do I "waste" my own time (that's probably how you see it) trying to expose and inform people about astronomy during public astronomy events, when I could be doing my own little thing with the time? Are you saying that when I do those thing with others who share my enthusiasm for that, that what I do is futile, and it will NOT amount nor contribute to anything?

-RODION

[vern]

We are talking about why we need to explore space not about your own personal actions. We are talking about your dreams of exploring space which I have said again ... are dreams not based on reality will never get any action ... hence ... acta non verba.

[rodsky]

We are talking about why we need to explore space not about your own personal actions. We are talking about your dreams of exploring space which I have said again ... are dreams not based on reality will never get any action ... hence ... acta non verba.

What if my personal actions inspire some kids out there to become more interested in science, eventually physics and engineering, and one day, space exploration, and actually contribute something concrete in making space more accessible to ordinary human beings? Am I still a dreamer when that happens?

-RODION