How to stop or solve the poverty in the Philippines?

[al1974]

---

Yes, they're LIVING... but struggling to get by each day. Struggling to pay rent, utility bills, gasoline bills (if they have a car), and frequently maxing out their credit cards to try and pay for everything. Is that the life that people here aspire to in order to have a bigger salary? It still equates to poverty, doesn't it? Not being able to afford things? Take your pick of reasons: The salary is too low/the price is too high... What's the difference between "costing too much to buy it" and "not having enough money to buy it"? You're gonna hate to hear this, but a poor person here is probably better off than a poor person in the US. Here, the tropical weather allows you to sleep outside without freezing to death. The tamer culture allows you to be out at nite without being beaten and robbed. There aren't fruit trees everywhere, and no roadside stands selling low cost meals on the streets. You can't slaughter a pig in your backyard and use it for food, either. Personally, if I had had only a few bucks in my pocket, I'd rather take my chances here.

Yes Vince you want to take your chances here. Of course- from how I see it, you are a foreigner with savings/pension with your hyperwage salary. Your currency is worth whole lot here. BUT on a different scenario, would you chose to be a Filipino raised in Philippines? Earning third world salaries and buying first world items?

[al1974]

Correction- petty crimes abound here in the Phils and not every thing is reported. Its not true that you will not be robbed and beaten at night- even in broad daylight, in a crowded area, it can happen.

That is the product of poverty. That is the product of low wage schemes.

[al1974]

The Philippines is poor because=
-we have resources but are owned by 5% of the population
-because we have very low salary schemes
On the other hand, the Philippines is poor not because of
- political corruption-- even if we have honest politicians, the salary will still be very low
- lack/poor education-- we have a lot of graduates working for low wages. Even if we ALL graduate as first in our classes, the salary scheme will still be the same
- high population-- even if 50% of our population will die tomorrow, we will still be earning slavery wages
- etc, etc

We are poor because of slavery wages. period.

[al1974]

Tomorrow, if our salaries will be increased to a level that can make us LIVE our lives and not just SURVIVE, then we will reduce poverty.

Isn't that agreeable?

[al1974]

I ask all who are anti-hyperwage to answer my question above with a yes or a no.

[Vince Russo]

Americans overspend thats why they struggle. On the other hand, immigrants and OFWs have the extra money to send to relatives and families.

And some Americans chose to live here and take advantage of our low wage maids and laborers.

Look at call centers here- aren't they as good as their first world counterparts? But still they are paid too low compared to their counterparts.

Yes Jollibee opened FIRST to other countries with Filipino as base customers to slowly introduce the brand. But take note that Jollibee also purchased brands in Chine where there is no Filipino customer base but demand is evident. Jollibee's long-term vision is to be the no. 1 restaurant in the world serving not just Filipinos. No need to lecture me on Jollibee strategy. I know it better being a part of the company for more than a decade.

Yes, overspending is a HUGE problem for Americans. But your comments re OFWs and immigrants "having extra money to send" is a ridiculous generalization and I challenge you to cite your resource for that provocative assertion.

I can't speak for other Americans here (regarding taking advantage of maids and laborers). But I would offer to compare how much you are paying the people that you employ with what I pay those that I employ (in a PM, of course). We'll be able to see who is taking advantage of their maids when we compare wages and living conditions, right?

As for Call Centers, my experience is that when on the phone, it's almost always easier to understand a person who shares my native tongue and regional accent. An American from California may have trouble understanding an english-speaking Filipino agent on the phone. So, it's tough to say that the Call Centers here are as good as those in America, isn't it? But as always, my wish is that everyone will be able to earn a comfortable living regardless of where they live.

I can't debate the Jollibee strategy with you al1974, and I admit that you already know way more about Jollibee than I will ever know. I'm happy that you have a career with them...

[Vince Russo]

Vince,
obviously you have not read the book

its a pity

read teh chapter about The Myth of Cheap Countries and see how your commentary below is being minced to the ground.

have your heard of the Hyperwage Affordability Index?

You're correct, foolonthehill... I have not read the book. I actually visited the author's website and TRIED reading a bit of the HT, but was put off by the hubris in some of Bentulan's quotes. The website reminded me of a cheap infomercial, selling things no one really needs at Christmas time.

But, I don't want to argue with you about it. You love Hyperwage Theory, and I do not. You bought the book, and I didn't. We'll now end of our posting relationship due to irreconcilable differences.

[al1974]

Yes, overspending is a HUGE problem for Americans. But your comments re OFWs and immigrants "having extra money to send" is a ridiculous generalization and I challenge you to cite your resource for that provocative assertion.

I can't speak for other Americans here (regarding taking advantage of maids and laborers). But I would offer to compare how much you are paying the people that you employ with what I pay those that I employ (in a PM, of course). We'll be able to see who is taking advantage of their maids when we compare wages and living conditions, right?

As for Call Centers, my experience is that when on the phone, it's almost always easier to understand a person who shares my native tongue and regional accent. An American from California may have trouble understanding an english-speaking Filipino agent on the phone. So, it's tough to say that the Call Centers here are as good as those in America, isn't it? But as always, my wish is that everyone will be able to earn a comfortable living regardless of where they live.

I can't debate the Jollibee strategy with you al1974, and I admit that you already know way more about Jollibee than I will ever know. I'm happy that you have a career with them...

Re- OFWs and Filipino migrant workers- it is a reality that they DO send money to the Philippines. There is no argument for that.


re- Call Centers, correct me if I am wrong, aren't they trained on their accent depending on their assigned region?

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

Tomorrow, if our salaries will be increased to a level that can make us LIVE our lives and not just SURVIVE, then we will reduce poverty.

Isn't that agreeable?

no...

when you say us.. you mean the educated skilled labour force of this country that can actually compete with labour market...

in reality.. bisan college grad pa ka daghan wala trabaho... ask daw pila ka UP and USC, UC, UV or bisan unsa na school graduate every year ang nakatambay ra sa ila balay kay dili kapangita ug work...

lisod mangita ug trabaho...

if i answer yes to your question that mean im only to concern to enrich myself because i will not be losing anything...

but im concern with those people that will lose their jobs, those who will have difficulty finding jobs becasue companies will be cutting down on numbers of their employees...

i have to tell my helper to go back to the province because Im not willing to pay her that much, lahotugh ill probably earn as much as 100k still one fourth of it i have to pay to her, but i have rents to pay, electricity bill, water bill not to mention the grocery...

ang presyo sa manok ug baboy unsa-on na lang... kay dako na man sweldo ang matador... pero basin di ay bisan sila mawad-an ug work kay ang mga salughter house kay pagamyon na lang ang number sa ila workers...

in the end dwaghan gihapon ang wala trabaho.. daghan ang dili maka-eskwela and balik ta sa uno...

people who are trap in the cycle of poverty beacuse they have no means such as education to break the cycle...

the problem with hyperwage it assumes that if you immediately increase the wage automatic agad ang effect... wihtout thinking of the side effects...

but see there must be a process before hyperwage can be implemented without aggravating the poverty problem of this country... this is what tarmac and the rest is trying to say...

we need proper education to even out the playing field... we need labourer that can compete with the market... indian professionals are willing to work para sa masmababa na sahod... we can blame it on their high pop... tan-awa sa dubai naog ang sahod na daghan pinoy pero masdaghan indiano willing to receive less than what a filipino OFWs is willing to earn.

you always point out the US is in hyperwage.. hello! was it hyperwage that made them into a first world? NO...

We have OFWs, kung ganun kadali ang buhay doon why is it that most of them take years before they can actually bring their families there... as what an aunt said mahal din doon.. ok lang kung isa ka...

may mura din namn daw.. pero ang munggo niya umabot ng isang linggo para masmaka-ipon ng pera pang padala sa pinas...tot hink nurse siya sa UK at may mga part time pa

kung akala nyo pinupulot ang pera sa labas hindi namn siguro ganun yun.. mataas ang tax, mahal ang bahay, mahal ang bigas, mahal pagupit ng buhok...

ganahn mo ug hyperwage sayon ra.. daghani ug trabaho pagamyon ang labourers....

ang firts na maiigo sa hyperwage kay dili man ang Mcdonalds, or kanag mga dako na companya... no ang first na maiigo ana kay ang mga gamay na local businesses... unsa man ang result ana.. dghan ang walay trabaho...

ka remember mo sa time na katong nisaka ang dollar and there were alot of local businesses closing down and the unemployment rate kay nitaas and there was the globalization issue... but mareng winnie monsod was saying in a tv program ok lang yan kase magmumura ang hershey at M&M... but our own products prices kay nisaka ug maayo... mura padung ingon ana man gud....

[Tarmac]

tarmac,
you claim to have read the book?

then this is what scares me - you have read the book and yet you gave us the obviously wrong analysis by the PhD Rational Choice blogspotter.

Does this mean, you didnt understand the chapters which demonstrated why the arguments of Rational Choice blogger is wrong?

What else did you not understand in the book?

but assuming you have read the book,
and assuming you understood it
and assuming you dont agree with it

then you are back to where you were in the first place:
living in a poor country
where the money is with the oligarchs,
while the maids are working at slavery wages,
using the old economic theory of maintaining our low wages which incidentally is Chapter 1 in the book "The Strategy of Poverty"

So, this is the end of the road for you mr Tarmac.

You have done what one should have done: Read, understand, disagree. That's the end of the road for you.

That's if you "understood" and not "misunderstood."

but if you "misunderstood" Hyperwage Theory, there is no end of the road in sight for you.

Well once again Fool, you have sidestepped the issue raised in favor of attacking the one raising the issue. That's all you're clearly capable of.

And since you have chosen (once again) not to address the question, I can now safely conclude that you do not have the answer. That is why you're so eager to dismiss me. .

Based on the way you've been answering my questions (or not answering them), the answer to poverty alleviation apparently does not lie with hyperwage because you have been singularly unconvincing. You've been too busy wrapped up in your conceited ad hominem and non sequitur arguments. Your abrasive and patronizing you-are-for-us-or-against-us attitude not only grates the senses, far worse is it has not engendered you any followers either. Outside of one other person on this board, I have yet to see anyone else buy whatever you're selling.

Hyperwage must be in need of better prophets.

That's the end of the road for you too. You're not taking the Hyperwage Theory anywhere the way you're going at it.

Sorry.