RELIGION....(part 2)

[tolstoi]

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mosimos & everyone

DACS
The people Christ commissioned to spread the gospel to all nations are indeed mere mortals. Yet, with the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, no official teachings of the Catholic Church can be flawed. You have then to remember that, although there is a heirarchy in the Catholic Church, all are disciples of Christ.

indeed the official teachings of the Catholic church is infallible but the vehicle that spread these teachings are the ones fallible...lets say for example, there was this priest who is good in preaching the gospel, but some parishioners knew the other side of this priest, that he was once seen drinking and gambling with his buddies, and that he has a live in partner [a typical realities of being a mere mortal]

True that the priest is eloquent in delivering the words and teachings of God, but his other side of being a human will set a bad example to the people..making people to beleive that the religion this priest serve is not a good religion..thus the clause "Religion is Flawed because man itself is Flawed" seems just appropriate.

If people will always claim that the infallibility of the Church is diminished because of the frailty of the priests who are commissioned to spread the Good News, then no one is capable of continuing Christ work.

These people who always try to fault find the priest is asking for the impossible.

Let us say I accuse other people of crime. Then somebody would always say you have no right to question the criminals action because you are not perfect too.

The intention really of these people is simple. They want us Catholics to shut up. They dont want the priest to lead the war against immorality. They cannot stand that we in the Catholic Church stand up for something we believe in. Thats why the least that they could do is accuse us of being imperfect or being sinners.

These people dont understand that God can forgive and in forgiving you are renewed and become worthy to emulate his acts and spread His Teachings.

for the record i myself is a catholic..i go to church every sunday inspite of a hectic life..my only contention here is that since the priest/laymen/deacons have its infirmity for being a mere mortal, it is beyond reason that every religion is bound to be flawed...for a fact, the catholic church recently had been condemned for the abuse cases of some our priests, which in a way not a good example of being a Christian and totally debases from their true mission that is to IMITATE CHRIST;

“Their mission [the priest] is not theirs, but is the same mission of Jesus.

“Priests are called to prolong the presence of Christ, the one high priest, embodying His way of life and making Him visible in the midst of the flock entrusted to their care.

“In the Church and on behalf of the Church, priests are a sacramental representation of Jesus Christ, the head and shepherd, authoritatively proclaiming His Word, repeating His acts of forgiveness and His offer of salvation, particularly in baptism, penance and the eucharist, showing his loving concern to the point of a total gift of self for the flock, which they gather into unity and lead to the Father through Christ and in the Spirit.� (Pastores Dabo Vobis 14, 15)

True that our priest is only human, nothing to argue with that..but how can they fulfill the mission that Christ passed to them if they will exploit this humanly characteristic as an excuse to every flaws they make?..just like an example here:

http://www.americancatholic.org/News/ClergySexAbuse/

if the priests/clergymen/deacons made a VOW to follow and imitate JESUS CHRIST then they should be like HIM, not in a way of being perfect but should be close to being perfect..

else, the religion that these priests/clergymen/deacons serve is bound to be FLAWED!..and that is an infallible fact.

[iamdede]

catholic ko oist but di ko fanatic...
season kay mog panulti da but i think copy paste raman guro na ninyo..
wa moy masuwat nga gikan jud sa inyo own thoughts...

[dacs]

for the record i myself is a catholic..i go to church every sunday inspite of a hectic life..my only contention here is that since the priest/laymen/deacons have its infirmity for being a mere mortal, it is beyond reason that every religion is bound to be flawed...for a fact, the catholic church recently had been condemned for the abuse cases of some our priests, which in a way not a good example of being a Christian and totally debases from their true mission that is to IMITATE CHRIST;

“Their mission [the priest] is not theirs, but is the same mission of Jesus.

“Priests are called to prolong the presence of Christ, the one high priest, embodying His way of life and making Him visible in the midst of the flock entrusted to their care.

“In the Church and on behalf of the Church, priests are a sacramental representation of Jesus Christ, the head and shepherd, authoritatively proclaiming His Word, repeating His acts of forgiveness and His offer of salvation, particularly in baptism, penance and the eucharist, showing his loving concern to the point of a total gift of self for the flock, which they gather into unity and lead to the Father through Christ and in the Spirit.� (Pastores Dabo Vobis 14, 15)

True that our priest is only human, nothing to argue with that..but how can they fulfill the mission that Christ passed to them if they will exploit this humanly characteristic as an excuse to every flaws they make?..just like an example here:

http://www.americancatholic.org/News/ClergySexAbuse/

if the priests/clergymen/deacons made a VOW to follow and imitate JESUS CHRIST then they should be like HIM, not in a way of being perfect but should be close to being perfect..

else, the religion that these priests/clergymen/deacons serve is bound to be FLAWED!..and that is an infallible fact.

There you go again, bro. You insist on that point of view and that is not even Catholic. You may be calling yourself as one, but you sure are slipping away.

Since the Christian religion is all about guiding believers in binding themselves back to God, you are saying that the guidance can and did fail. In effect, you are saying that it has given and will be giving erroneous teachings. As Catholics, we know that infallibility of the magisterium of the Church is a necessary characteristic or else we can never be sure if the 'guide' should be trusted with giving instructions (if that would be true, then Christ has failed in His promise). To think that Christ failed to make good with His promise of sending the Holy Spirit to guide the Church to all truth and be with her until the end of days is simply un-Christian.

Read about the Donatists and how St. Augustine of Hippo fought against this heretical sect who misled a lot of Christians and divided parishes into factions. Read also about concupiscence and its influence to human will and acts.

'til then, God bless you.

[dacs]

catholic ko oist but di ko fanatic...
season kay mog panulti da but i think copy paste raman guro na ninyo..

Who says we are fanatics?Â* If what we are doing is a case of fanaticism, how would you call those people who we - the fanatics here - call as religious fanatics?Â* Super fanatics?Â* Fanaticism is already an extreme case.Â* To call it 'super' (or whatever superlative) is already what?Â* Super extreme?

wa moy masuwat nga gikan jud sa inyo own thoughts...

If truth can be better presented by the words that were 'cut and pasted', why re-invent the wheel?

... or are you assuming that the post-ers here don't know their English and would rather play it safe?

[Cardinal Bunal]

One can be defined as a fanatic if he loves to quote the Word of God but doesn't apply it. Not just a fanatic, but a hypocrite!!!! James 1: 22 - 23

The New Testament is filled with enough information for us to know whether we have eternal life or not (1 Jn 5: 13) but the one who disobeys the Son of God will perish (Jn 3: 36, Matt. 7: 20 - 25 )

[seth_kahn]

so you guys believe that there is a heaven and hell?...

Heaven is a state of happiness, hell a state of sorrow.
When you die happy or at peace with yourself, with others and with God you are in Heaven, otherwise you are in Hell.

[tolstoi]

brod DACS

my faith on the practices of the Catholic church is impregnable, but my faith on our priests and laymen is the one questionable.

what i think lacks every Christian clergyman nowadays are DISCIPLINE, FAITH, HUMILITY..gone are the days when a priests/nuns only commitment was to follow Christ's footsteps, that was to serve the NEEDY both spiritualy and physically...and be able to guide them to the path of salvation.

instead priests and nuns nowadays are into profit making..for a fact, they instituted universities and hospitals that only few people can afford..there was even this news article that a patient died because he/she was forbid to be admitted in a catholic run hospital for financial reasons.

now who do you think is slipping away here..the shepherd or the flock??

[dacs]

brod DACS

my faith on the practices of the Catholic church is impregnable, but my faith on our priests and laymen is the one questionable.

what i think lacks every Christian clergyman nowadays are DISCIPLINE, FAITH, HUMILITY..gone are the days when a priests/nuns only commitment was to follow Christ's footsteps, that was to serve the NEEDY both spiritualy and physically...and be able to guide them to the path of salvation.

'Gone are the days'?Â* That's so restrictive a view, bro.Â* No, it's here - now - and it has always been here.Â* Your problem is that you restricted what you want to see on your immediate surroundings.Â* You can check elsewhere.Â* Yet, you would rather have a very un-Christian response to such things.Â* Love your enemy, remember?Â* Pray for those who persecute you, remember?Â* What would you follow then - yourself or Christ?Â* This kind of priests who you so despise (am I right on using this word despise?) will always be there as it is allowed by Christ Himself.Â* Read Matthew 13:24-30

He proposed another parable to them.Â* "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.Â* While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds 10 all through the wheat, and then went off.Â* When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.Â* The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?'Â* He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'Â* He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.Â* Let them grow together until harvest; 11 then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

I agree with the late Pope John Paul II that Catholics are facing a new springtime.Â* Many Catholics are beginning to read and learn what the Catholic Church actually teaches.Â* There are a lot more to learn regarding what is expected from us and what we should expect from the Church.

instead priests and nuns nowadays are into profit making..for a fact, they instituted universities and hospitals that only few people can afford..there was even this news article that a patient died because he/she was forbid to be admitted in a catholic run hospital for financial reasons.

What you have stated is unfortunate.Â* Let us take on the universities first.Â* Who will pay for the salaries of employees, faculties, and support personnel?Â* Who will pay the real estate taxes of those large parcels of land?Â* Who will pay for the utilities : water, electricity, phone/fax?Â* Who will pay for the maintenance of buildings and facilities?Â* Do you even care?Â* Have you researched on the technicalities of a non-profit institution?Â* State universities have a large budget coming from the government.Â* Imagine that the University of the Philippines Engineering Library (Diliman) has 30 million or more to spend on books and other materials.Â* The University of San Carlos has only around 3 million.Â* Private universities get their money from the tuition fee of the students.Â* It is a balancing act to keep pace with the development of state universities so as not to be left behind (and lose prospective students in the process) and to keep your current students without choking them with tuition fee increase.Â* Nevertheless, a tuition fee increase is almost always regarded as 'money-grabbing' practice.Â* Almost.

The same could be said on Catholic hospitals. These hospitals, though, offer charity - in many number of ways. You have to see it on their side. Who will pay for the things they have to pay? 'Thank you' lang atong ihatag sa mga doktor (that would be the day!). Even if that can be done, how would the doctors live without salaries? You also have to ask : is the essential duty to these Catholic hospitals to provide free hospital services to the people? What about the government? Have you never heard of any privileges given to the poor in these hospital run by Catholic nuns? Have tried to know the actual situation when the incident you described happened or did you just trust the media to report the exact, unbiased event? Think like a Christian, bro. Give the benefit of a doubt to those who have been maligned until you know the whole truth (if that can be done).

now who do you think is slipping away here..the shepherd or the flock??

You are so concerned with these kind of priests that you lost sight of what is more important.Â* You.Â* Are you slipping away?Â* Are you still behaving and thinking like a Christian?Â* Are you still able to forgive and pray for those who have done you harm?Â* If someone slaps your left cheek, can you still offer your right check?Â* A Christian does not live on his own; he actually lives with a community of believers.Â* If one suffers, the whole community suffers.Â* If one sins, the whole community will feel the pain of such sin.Â* Nevertheless, the healing can only start if we pray as a community and we forgive as a community.Â* Yes, we don't allow for such bad behavior to prosper.Â* This is one of the reasons why we have a heirarchy.Â* You can talk to your priest in the presence of two or three witnesses.Â* If he will not listen, let it be known to the bishop - and pray continuously that such things may be resolve through the grace of God.

God bless you, bro.

[tolstoi]

brod DACS..where is now the humility that Christ's implored to His successors?..don't you think the priests/nuns should serve the lowly instead of instituting a university or hospital that only caters the rich?

Luke 4:16-21

if there is one Christ's servant whom i deeply respect, that would be Mother Teresa..for she lived a life of humility and utmost service for the needy.

[dacs]

brod DACS..where is now the humility that Christ's implored to His successors?..don't you think the priests/nuns should serve the lowly instead of instituting a university or hospital that only caters the rich?

Luke 4:16-21

if there is one Christ's servant whom i deeply respect, that would be Mother Teresa..for she lived a life of humility and utmost service for the needy.

Here lies your problem.Â* Mother Teresa saw also some of the abuses of some priests.Â* You know then (if you are truly into the life and times of Mother Teresa) that not all of the Catholic clergy are supportive of all that Mother Teresa represents.Â* Yet, Mother Teresa always pray for them because God loves them, too.Â* God wants all to be saved, and we can assist our fellowmen with our prayers.Â* If you truly admire Mother Teresa, why do you not do as she does?Â* You are instead wasting your energy with negative thoughts.

I will say it again.Â* Talk to the priest in the presence of two or three witnesses.Â* If he doesn't act positively on your dialogue, bring the matter to your bishop.Â* I know it can be done because I have been personally a witness to such a proceeding.

Live Christianity, bro.Â* Stop the grumbling.Â* Act prudently but courageously.